[xGS]

I wouldn't call it a fetish. I'd call it a higher standard over conventional. DW-1 is made with Dino Oil.
View attachment 141249

From what material do you think synthetic fluids are made? Pixie dust?

 

[PLT383]

.........but only the highest quality pixie dust.

 

[Nail Grease]

From what material do you think synthetic fluids are made? Pixie dust?

Contains petroleum oil = not full synthetic.

 

[plplplpl]

 

[xGS]

Contains petroleum oil = not full synthetic.
View attachment 141252

"Synthetic oil is a man-made lubricant that consists of artificially made chemical compounds. Synthetic oils are typically created from chemically modified materials such as petroleum components, but the base material is almost always distilled crude oil."
Synthetic Oil: Everything You Need To Know

 

[Nail Grease]

View attachment 141255

I thought maybe you were avoiding confrontation. 😀👍

 

[Nail Grease]

"Synthetic oil is a man-made lubricant that consists of artificially made chemical compounds. Synthetic oils are typically created from chemically modified materials such as petroleum components, but the base material is almost always distilled crude oil."
Synthetic Oil: Everything You Need To Know

Yes, but DW-1 is not full synthetic since it actually contains petroleum. If you synthesize petroleum (extracting a component) it's no longer petroleum. It's obviously not as refined.

 

[xGS]

Yes, but DW-1 is not full synthetic since it actually contains petroleum. If you synthesize petroleum (extracting a component) it's no longer petroleum. It's obviously not as refined.

Are suggesting that there's no petroleum left in a synthetic oil/fluid?

 

[Nail Grease]

Are suggesting that there's no petroleum left in a synthetic oil/fluid?

I think what I've said is clear without restating it in other words.

 

[Nail Grease]

DW-1. The guy who replaced mine does lots of Hondas. His advice was "run low until you can get more DW-1 instead of putting in something else".

No data behind that, and my experience is limited, but even obscenely expensive DW-1 is cheap enough for me to use it "because he said so".

Full disclosure: I use MaxLife in other cars. The Honda 5-speed is special, I suppose.

I re-read your post again on your transmission replacement. As stated on that thread, if your warranty specifically stated you must run with "Honda DW-1 ATF," I get it. What your transmission replacement guy (or who wrote the warranty) needs to understand is that your Honda transmission was originally specd for "Honda Z1," a fluid no longer produced by Honda. The language used was that you should use DW-1 before using a "foriegn" fluid. DW-1 is a "foreign" fluid to that transmission.
The transmission you originally had obviously was abused by the original owner, having never changed the old Z1 fluid. I hate to say this, but anytime I hear of someone changing old Z1 for new DW-1, the transmission troubles begin. IMO, The only possible chance of saving an old Z1 transmission with old fluid is with Full Synthetic Valvoline MaxLife ATF. It does what it says on the back label. But now, with a fresh start on your newly rebuilt transmission on DW-1, and doing 10k mile drain and fills, you'll likely be just fine.

 

[Jack Vogt]

I re-read your post again on your transmission replacement. As stated on that thread, if your warranty specifically stated you must run with "Honda DW-1 ATF," I get it. What your transmission replacement guy (or who wrote the warranty) needs to understand is that your Honda transmission was originally specd for "Honda Z1," a fluid no longer produced by Honda. The language used was that you should use DW-1 before using a "foriegn" fluid. DW-1 is a "foreign" fluid to that transmission.
The transmission you originally had obviously was abused by the original owner, having never changed the old Z1 fluid. I hate to say this, but anytime I hear of someone changing old Z1 for new DW-1, the transmission troubles begin. IMO, The only possible chance of saving an old Z1 transmission with old fluid is with Full Synthetic Valvoline MaxLife ATF. It does what it says on the back label. But now, with a fresh start on your newly rebuilt transmission on DW-1, and doing 10k mile drain and fills, you'll likely be just fine.

My 2008 Pilot came from the factory with Z1.

It has since been switched to DW-1. When Honda switched to this newer and better fluid, they stated that it was compatible with all transmissions that had currently been using Z1 and would even improve shifting characteristics. Whether or not the improvement part is true, DW-1 is a direct replacement to Z1 ATF.

So I'm not sure why you say switching to DW-1 starts causing problems. It's incredibly clear you like MaxLife ATF and can't stand DW-1, but don't present false or unfounded information to people as though it is fact. Your experience (or others on this forum) is one thing, but to make a blanket statement is dangerous to people who come on this forum and aren't very educated on the subject.

 

[Nail Grease]

My 2008 Pilot came from the factory with Z1.

It has since been switched to DW-1. When Honda switched to this newer and better fluid, they stated that it was compatible with all transmissions that had currently been using Z1 and would even improve shifting characteristics. Whether or not the improvement part is true, DW-1 is a direct replacement to Z1 ATF.

So I'm not sure why you say switching to DW-1 starts causing problems. It's incredibly clear you like MaxLife ATF and can't stand DW-1, but don't present false or unfounded information to people as though it is fact. Your experience (or others on this forum) is one thing, but to make a blanket statement is dangerous to people who come on this forum and aren't very educated on the subject.

Did you change your Z1 transmission fluid regularly? A clean Z1 transmission to it clean DW-1 transmission probably would be okay, for a while. But the key point is regular ATF drain and fills. I could accidentally go 50k miles without a drain and fill in Full Synthetic Valvoline MaxLife. I couldn't do that with DW-1 and not some have some adverse effects. You're not doing yourself any favor staying with DW-1. Yes I'm doubling down.

 

[Jack Vogt]

Did you change your Z1 transmission fluid regularly? A clean Z1 transmission to it clean DW-1 transmission probably would be okay, for a while. But the key point is regular ATF drain and fills. I could accidentally go 50k miles without a drain and fill in Full Synthetic Valvoline MaxLife. I couldn't do that with DW-1 and not some have some adverse effects. You're not doing yourself any favor staying with DW-1. Yes I'm doubling down.

Here's what I know: Transmission fluid was changed when my car reached 75,000 miles. First time it was switched to DW-1. Next time it was changed was at 173,000. Then again at 180k and 190k. The transmission was acting up, but after muzzling the VCM it went back to shifting perfectly.

2006 Odyssey went 250k with a mix of Z1 and DW-1 before the transmission failed.

Stick with MaxLife if it works for you, but just because it works for you doesn't mean it is the only option.

 

[Tacoma'03Pilot]

But now, with a fresh start on your newly rebuilt transmission on DW-1, and doing 10k mile drain and fills, you'll likely be just fine.

The challenge that we all have is that there are too many variables, and the data accumulates too slowly.

I believe that your analysis is correct, but there's an element of faith involved in choosing lubricants. The only people with the capacity (and motivation) to do the hard science of finding out what really happens if you do A versus B are the same people trying to sell you something.

For me, the folks in the shop were professional and credible. They had seen lots of Honda 5-speeds over a long period of time. They believed that DW-1 was better. They have a lot more data than I do, although that still doesn't rise to the level of hard science. My personal decision was to take their advice. I'll know how that worked out in another 7 or 8 years, hopefully.

 

[PilotVlad]

Based on this thread and successes posted by others, I just completed the last replacement of 3 total (3x3) to see if a low speed/light throttle/high load occasional torque converter shudder would be corrected. So far, I've noticed that the tranny is downshifting sooner than it did before and upshifts are about half as lazy as before. I did have at least 3 occasions where conditions were ripe bracing myself for what was coming and... nothing. It's too soon to call this fixed but there is a definite improvement regardless.

The old fluid has 35k miles on it with at least one 3qt replacement somewhere in between there and maybe even two. It was still a good color but did have a faint burnt odor. The magnet had a bit of material on it but not excessive at all.

To sum it up - thank you, everyone, for sharing your wisdom, experiences and for being guinea pigs.

 

[aloogatr]

Yesterday, I did D&F transmission fluid in my other car, a Nissan, with MaxLife ATF. Based on test drive and feels today, I won't consider it for my 2005 Pilot.

 

[The Todd]

Yesterday, I did D&F transmission fluid in my other car, a Nissan, with MaxLife ATF. Based on test drive and feels today, I won't consider it for my 2005 Pilot.

Well, I/we have a 08 Pilot (same 5 spd trans?) that never had an ATF change AT ALL, in 184K miles!! Since I realized my errors, I've done a total of 3 x D&F's (about 2 weeks apart) w/ Valvoline MaxLife ATF. Much better, couldn't be happier. Sorry you Nissan trany doesn't seem to like it that much?

Based on this thread and successes posted by others, I just completed the last replacement of 3 total (3x3) to see if a low speed/light throttle/high load occasional torque converter shudder would be corrected. So far, I've noticed that the tranny is downshifting sooner than it did before and upshifts are about half as lazy as before. I did have at least 3 occasions where conditions were ripe bracing myself for what was coming and... nothing. It's too soon to call this fixed but there is a definite improvement regardless.

The old fluid has 35k miles on it with at least one 3qt replacement somewhere in between there and maybe even two. It was still a good color but did have a faint burnt odor. The magnet had a bit of material on it but not excessive at all.

To sum it up - thank you, everyone, for sharing your wisdom, experiences and for being guinea pigs.

Sorry if I missed it.

What fluid did you use on your changes?

 

[Nail Grease]

Yesterday, I did D&F transmission fluid in my other car, a Nissan, with MaxLife ATF. Based on test drive and feels today, I won't consider it for my 2005 Pilot.

I've got MaxLife ATF in 3 Nissans and they are performing great and trouble free.

 

[aloogatr]

I feel engine has to work harder at shifting gears. I bought 2 1-gallon. Used one and plan to go back to factory fluid. It did not work for me.

 

[Nail Grease]

I feel engine has to work harder at shifting gears. I bought 2 1-gallon. Used one and plan to go back to factory fluid. It did not work for me.

What kind of Nissan do you have?