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Michelin defender ltx m/s vs michelin defender 2

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#1 ·
It's time for tires. My Pilot came with Defenders LTX from the factory. At 50K I put on another set. I now have 110K miles and I need to replace them. Costco doesn't seem to carry the Defender LTX only the Defender 2. I can't find much difference in them.

What is everyone else using as a all season tire?

Thanks
 
#2 · (Edited)
I think the right answer to this, of course working under the knowledge that there is more than one right answer to this question, is going to be influenced by where you live, what kind of driving you do, how much off-roading you intend to do, how much rain, mud, or snow you will encounter regularly, etc.

On our 2023+ Trailsports, the stock option is the Continental TerrainContact All-Terrain. In terms of All-Terrain All Season, It's a pretty good tire that rides well. I wouldn't go mudding or into the snow with it with high levels of confidence. This tire was Honda dipping its foot into the pool of all-terrain tires as stock equipment. So if you want better in terms of off-road, or mud, or snow, you would want to look at Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac RT, or BFG KO3, or Toyo Open Country RT Trail, or Falken Wildpeak AT4W, or Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT. All of these are more for off-road than for highway comfort, but many people would pick one of these as their favorite among the group. It's all opinion and matching needs to budget.

But I don't think you can go wrong with Michelin again if it's mainly an all-season city and highway driving type tire that you want to continue with, that will still offer some decent traction on an occasional light trail without slipping all over the place. The Defender2 seems to be well rated.
 
#3 ·
Thanks! 99% of my driving is all season city and highway. I live in the Philly burbs and once in a while we can get a foot or more of snow. I do need to drive in the snow to get to work. I was also considering the Bridgestone - Weatherpeak, they seem to have a better snow rating. The Defenders 2 are good in up to light snow? Thats not great
 
#5 ·
Then I would definitely be looking into the Falken Wildpeak AT Trail. You can get them in your stock tire size, but considering you're in Philly and I know how great your roads are, I would be increasing the sidewall of my tires and adding some width. You can take your stock wheels and throw on 255/65/18 tires. It adds a little width and a little more sidewall, increasing the comfort of the ride. With the Falken Wildpeak AT Trails, you'll have comfort and snow capability. They'll weigh a little more than your stock tire, but you'll have the benefit of a more durable tire with the three-peak mountain snowflake symbol on it. Apples to apples at the 255/65/18 size, they weigh only 7 lbs more per tire than a Defender2 which is not snow rated.
 
#6 ·
Michelin also makes a tire just for Costco which is almost always a copy of the current or previous Defender design. The Defender 2 is the most recent current design in the Defender line.

For a highway all season tire, The Michelin Primacy Tour, Defender LTX, Defender 2, Hankook Dynapro, Yokohama Geolandar and YK-CTX, and Continental Cross Contact are going to be the most common higher end tires.

The biggest difference in the Michelin Defender LTX and the Defender2 is the tread pattern. Both come in an XL rating (109H) and the Defender 2 has a slightly longer treadwear mileage warranty at 80,000.
 
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#7 ·
Michelin also makes a tire just for Costco which is almost always a copy of the current or previous Defender design. The Defender 2 is the most recent current design in the Defender line.

For a highway all season tire, The Michelin Primacy Tour, Defender LTX, Defender 2, Hankook Dynapro, Yokohama Geolandar and YK-CTX, and Continental Cross Contact are going to be the most common higher end tires.

The biggest difference in the Michelin Defender LTX and the Defender2 is the tread pattern. Both come in an XL rating (109H) and the Defender 2 has a slightly longer treadwear mileage warranty at 80,000.
Thanks for the information
 
#17 ·
In my experience, any of the Michelin LTX series of tires (I've had multiple sets with the original LTS M/X), the Pirelli Scorpion A/S tires and the Firestone Destination LE3 tires have all been excellent in the rain and snow we get in northern MD about an hour from Philly. I think the LTX series tires are the noisiest of those three, but that's a slight difference (they are not mud tires). I also feel the LTX tires are the stiffest of the three, which I prefer. Their more "squared off" look imparts the feeling they are a tougher tire.

I'd get any of those 3 again depending on which has the best value/deals at that time.
 
#18 ·
Interesting - I have been looking at my size (2025 Pilot with 20" wheel).

But when I look at the OP's size (2019 EX-L assuming 18" wheels) with a factory 245/60 R18:

Discount tire lists a Defender 2 in 109H (XL or light truck load rating) and a Defender 2 in 105H SL load index/rating tire. For about the same cost. In this size - they show the LTX M/S is discontinued. So if you want the stiffer sidewall, you have to ensure that's what you order.

Pirelli does not offer a 109H XL rated tire in that size (or at least if they do, discount tire does not offer it)
 
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#20 ·
The LTX M/S has been out of production for many years, I had it in 2006 timeframe on my ML 320. There was the LTX M/S 2, the Defender LTX, the X LT A/S (Costco version of the same tire) among other names I am forgetting. They always look very similar, and the reason I used the X LT A/S on my Traverse was it had the smooth sidewall instead of ribbed which I felt was easier to keep clean and looked nicer with tire shine.
 
#24 ·
Defender LTX was stopped a few years ago and replaced with Defender 2. I will be replacing my Defender LTX with Defender 2 soon. My tire guy is trying to talk me into the Michelin CrossClimate but I've had a great experience with my Defenders on all my vehicles.
 
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#28 ·
Here at Lake Tahoe (6229’), we call All-Season tires “no-season” as they are a compromise in both winter and summer. If there’s snow where you live, I’d highly recommend Bridgestone Blizzaks. I ran them on my Land Rover Discoverys for 25 years and just put a set on my 2014 Pilot EX-L Touring. I bought my Pilot last winter and the all-season tires on it did not pass muster for Sierra snow. The Blizzaks have quieted down the ride and improved the handling dramatically.
 
#31 ·
I have Michelin LTX's on my 2011 EX, to replace factory currently have 55K on them. Great wet/ show traction, quiet. My only issue is that, they have small cracks at the rim tire edge and some between the treads. Hard compound seems to be an issue with Michelin, however I'd still get them again. 110K still running great. Got then at Costco, for my Pilot and Accord.
Hope this helps.
 
#36 ·
Of note - the Defender 2 and Defender LTX M/S 2 are different tires. I recommend the LTX M/S 2 and have no experience or input with the Defender 2. It appears to have much more "square" tread blocks and more uniform circumferential grooves, which may make it a better highway tire but I spend some time off pavement and value more traction from the more irregular blocks of the LTX M/S 2.
 
#37 ·
Then I would definitely be looking into the Falken Wildpeak AT Trail. You can get them in your stock tire size, but considering you're in Philly and I know how great your roads are, I would be increasing the sidewall of my tires and adding some width. You can take your stock wheels and throw on 255/65/18 tires. It adds a little width and a little more sidewall, increasing the comfort of the ride. With the Falken Wildpeak AT Trails, you'll have comfort and snow capability. They'll weigh a little more than your stock tire, but you'll have the benefit of a more durable tire with the three-peak mountain snowflake symbol on it. Apples to apples at the 255/65/18 size, they weigh only 7 lbs more per tire than a Defender2 which is not snow rated.
Stock size Wildpeak AT trail says discontinued at TR. I have them on my FIL's Jeep Renegade. They are wearing even and have not been noisy. Much better than the stock Wildpeak it came with and the Pirelli Scorpion AT we replaced them with. Many really like them for light off road also. That said as he does all around town, all of his tires on that vehicle are done by 30k. I need something new for winter. He "needs" to have that aggressive sidewall look for the Jeep image :rolleyes: . Only off-road he sees is when he drives over my Belgium block and lawn. My Accord sees more mud/gravel but that's another story. They were acceptable in winter, he was happy, he refuses to get winter tires.

According to TireRack, the OEM tire was the Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS.
Wife almost wrecked Pilot after a couple days having it in the snow. She wanted to bring it back because of the tires and her experience compared to her winter tire equipped Sequoia. Absolutely horrible in snow and very noisy IMO. The winter tires we put on a week later were quieter and now she is happy in winter (but still misses Sequoia).

Defender LTX was stopped a few years ago and replaced with Defender 2. I will be replacing my Defender LTX with Defender 2 soon. My tire guy is trying to talk me into the Michelin CrossClimate but I've had a great experience with my Defenders on all my vehicles.
The Defender 2 as I read and look at tread is very close to the old Defender T&H. Competent in dry, pretty good wet, quiet, winter eh. That was on 2 CRV's. On my daughters CRV I replaced them with older model Pirelli Scorpion AS+2. She only uses 3 season though and has dedicated winter as all my cars do. I'd have no issue putting the Pirelli AS3 on my Pilot or her CRV but again I run full winter tires.

My issue with the all weather tires is that many seem to forget physics. Once the tread gets down to about 6/32" they will lose a lot of winter grip, just like dedicated winter tires. Most winter tires have a wear bar at 6/32". As long as that corresponds to your wear conditions than ok but many can't see replacing tires at that point for their daily driver. Most of the all weather tires also are directional so you can only do front/rear rotations, no cross rotating to even out wear if needed like with asymmetrical versions.

I think on my search the current closest replacement to the Michelin Defender LTX M/S for me would be the Continental TerrainContact HT which gets good ratings for dry/wet and light snow. Tread pattern looks a lot like the LTX. The Conti CrossContact LX25 also gets good ratings the same way from many but to me more toward just highway.

Michelin CrossClimate 2- multiple friends and family have them and really like them. Some have decided not to get winter tires any more around them due to the lack of winters we have been having. One complained about some lost MPG and a bit louder than what they had BUT said acceptable for the much better grip in all conditions trade off. (The AW comments apply).

Nokian Remedy WRG5- original all weather tire brand. These are asymmetrical and nicely siped for winter. I had many Nokians over the years, mostly dedicated winter. I did have a set of WRG2 on my Corolla as my winter tires and they were very good. That was when we used to get snow also. 4-5/32" they got questionable in winter back then but were 5 seasons old. I replaced with new dedicated winter Nokians but did use the WRG2 as my 3 season until the next fall.

Pirelli AS3 - Everyone needs a nice set of Italian shoes. Based on the Pirelli Scorpion AS+2 on my daughters CRV and the P7 Cinturato AS+2 on my Accord, I'd have no issue getting the AS3 depending sales etc. They were and still are very quiet on both vehicles making for nice highway drives while being good in wet and good handling that I have tried.

Black Friday is coming so will the sales. Last year Continental had a $110 off a set of 4 all month. If you used the Conti Credit card through Synchrony Bank they doubled that to $220 as a rebate. I was able to use it at my local tire shop and bought 4 Conti's for my sons car (TrueContact Tour) from them. Supports local shop I use frequently and was actually cheaper than the ship from TireRack and have installed even with rebate. I paid the balance the next month to avoid interest. My Pirellis I got at Sam's Club as they had a really good promotion going at the time.

Best winter focused as a 1 tires solution IMO that I would get - 1) Nokian WRG5. 2) Michelin CC2. 3) Continental TerrainContact HT.
3 season focus - 1) Pirelli AS3. 2) Conti CrossContact LX25, 3) TerrainContact HT
light off road (beach/dirt/gravel) and Daily drive - TerrainContact HT or TerrainContact AT if a bit more focused for off road.

Not listed above but also options that are all weather and asymmetrical - General Altimax 365AW, Toyo Celsius

I haven't tried and Firestones in many years but the Destination LE2 or 3 get good reviews- Like a Camry or Accord, probably can't go wrong with them and will get you there safely.

My Goodyear experiences have not been great over many years on multiple vehicles so not my preferred buy unless nothing else available.
 
#38 ·
Wife almost wrecked Pilot after a couple days having it in the snow. She wanted to bring it back because of the tires and her experience compared to her winter tire equipped Sequoia. Absolutely horrible in snow and very noisy IMO.
Of course winter tires will perform better in winter conditions, but does your wife adjust speed and following distance for the prevailing driving conditions?
 
#41 · (Edited)
It's time for tires. My Pilot came with Defenders LTX from the factory. At 50K I put on another set. I now have 110K miles and I need to replace them. Costco doesn't seem to carry the Defender LTX only the Defender 2. I can't find much difference in them.

What is everyone else using as a all season tire?

Thanks
Bridgestone Alenza A/S from costco. Been fantastic tires. I live in Midwest. Put them on a 2019 pilot AWD.
 
#44 ·
Research UTQG. The Defender 2 as a rating of 840 BB. That BB is a deal breaker for me. It's a sub-par tire for what you're spending ALOT of money on. Better options out there.

In the Uniform Tire Quality Grading (UTQG) system, a tire with an AA traction grade is better than a tire with a B grade:
  • AA
    The highest traction grade, indicating excellent wet traction and braking performance
  • B
    Adequate for most situations, but may not perform as well as AA or A on wet surfaces


Image
 
#47 ·
Research UTQG. The Defender 2 as a rating of 840 BB. That BB is a deal breaker for me. It's a sub-par tire for what you're spending ALOT of money on. Better options out there.

In the Uniform Tire Quality Grading (UTQG) system, a tire with an AA traction grade is better than a tire with a B grade:
  • AA
    The highest traction grade, indicating excellent wet traction and braking performance
  • B
    Adequate for most situations, but may not perform as well as AA or A on wet surfaces


View attachment 179548
Research how the traction test is performed.
The resultant ratings may not be representative of how well a given tire performs when installed on a vehicle equipped with anti-lock brakes.