I have read that the 9 speed is set for fluid changes around 60000 miles. I will have to look around and see where I can find that information. Did your other services come up on the MM such as for the rear differential fluid change around 15000 miles and then about every 30000 miles? Could the service code have been reset somehow for the transmission fluid by the dealer or yourself since you have done the other maintenance items.

If Honda Care covers fluid changes when they are due hopefully you shouldn't have any problems having the dealer do it without the code showing. Or will you have to wait for the code to come up before they would do it?

Just a little note I have just done my own Touring 9 speed fluid change at 28000 miles here at home last week. Very easy and quick to do. I pulled the car up on four wheel ramps and drained the fluid while it was cold. I took out 3.75 quarts of factory fill, and put in exactly 3.75 quarts of new Honda 3.1 fluid. The car shifts great but it was even before the fluid change. I didn't reset any MM codes for the transmission fluid change and am curious to see when it comes up for the change around 60000 miles as expected.

 

The 2017 version of maintenance minder I believe just calculates scheduled maintenance based on number of oil changes that have reached 15% before being reset. If you reset it before that the car doesn't count it. Seems the 2018 or 2019 revision worked some of those bugs out and let's you view upcoming maintenance in the menus of the head unit.

ZF publishes a recommended interval for their 8 and 9 speeds in other vehicles and it is typically 60-75k. Fortunately their green tyranny fluid is synthetic and seems to hold up OK.

Do you have AWD? Rear diff will need to be changed too.

 

The 2017 version of maintenance minder I believe just calculates scheduled maintenance based on number of oil changes that have reached 15% before being reset. If you reset it before that the car doesn't count it. Seems the 2018 or 2019 revision worked some of those bugs out and let's you view upcoming maintenance in the menus of the head unit.

ZF publishes a recommended interval for their 8 and 9 speeds in other vehicles and it is typically 60-75k. Fortunately their green tyranny fluid is synthetic and seems to hold up OK.

Do you have AWD? Rear diff will need to be changed too.

I actually just remembered that the first 4 oil changes were through the dealer I bought the car from in Tucson....4 free changes within 20k miles. I think maybe once the MM came up in that 20k miles because the dealer reset them early. So yea, now it makes perfect sense why I didn't get the trans code at ~60k now.

 

Here is a copy and paste from a 2018 Odyssey forum regarding the 60000 mile change. It is in the owner's manual but talks about that mileage for towing or mountain driving.

The owner's manual provides this information as a footnote to the "code 3"--change transmission fluid--in the owner's manual: "Driving in mountainous areas at very low vehicle speeds or trailer towing results in higher transmissiontemperatures. This requires transmission fluid changes more frequently than recommended by theMaintenance Minder. If you regularly drive your vehicle under these conditions, have the transmission fluidchanged at 60,000 miles (100,000 km) or 3 years, thereafter every 30,000 miles (50,000 km) or 2 years." However, there is no explanation of how often the regular interval should be.

I don't see that same verbiage in the 2017 Pilot manual on line except in regards to the transfer case fluid. The transmission change code 3 shows an * next to it, but no corresponding footnote about it.

 

If the transmission has the judders, it'd be important to replace fluid asap.
The 9-speed is not a simple Honda drain and fill transmission. Lots of videos out there of ones draining out fluid and measuring it. Yes, this can work, but you can't close the fill plug with confidence that the transmission is filled to the proper level. This transmission is to be serviced with the vehicle level (no ramps). It also requires that the vehicle be placed in VSA Maintenance Mode so you can shift into different gears to draw fluid up into the transmission and then fill to the proper level.

 

I used four ramps and the car was sitting level. I am very confident in my case that the amount of fluid removed and the exact amount of fluid replaced kept the fluid in the correct operating range. After almost 3 years and 28000 miles I would have noticed any transmission odd shifting or behavior if the fluid had been low to begin with from the factory. There were also no seeps or leaks which may have been a concern as to the correct level to begin with.

The owner's manual also shows that for the 9 speed the amount of fluid for a drain and fill is 3.5 quarts. I actually removed 8 oz more and put the same amount back in. I don't have an aftermarket installed transmission cooler so perhaps my fluid was even a bit too high from the factory? Not concerned at all about the little bit of extra.

 

To answer some comments/questions:

1. Yes, I have done all the maintenance according to the maintenance minder. Specifically because I know clearing it early will prevent me from seeing the maintenance codes for some of the less frequent items. Example: the rear diff was last done at 41.5k miles (it threw an A16 code).

2. I am well aware that the ATF change procedure is not a simple drain and fill. I have the tools and the ability, but I don't feel like fighting Honda over extended warranty coverage saying I may have done the procedure wrong in the event the trans grenades itself. If this were any other transmission I wouldn't care as much, but I know the 9 speed has issues...particularly the earlier model year 3rd gen Pilots. Local dealer is quoting ~$290 for the change so I'm not terribly upset with the prospect of having them do it.

I am generally just more concerned with Honda having an issue with the fact I didn't have an ATF change right at (or before) 60K even though the car never told me to (in the event I need to try and have it replaced under the extended warranty). That's why I was asking if this is the norm for some Pilots, I haven't seen anything in the manual (or otherwise from Honda) that would indicate 60k is the hard number.

 

To answer some comments questions:

1. Yes, I have done all the maintenance according to the maintenance minder. Specifically because I know clearing it early will prevent me from seeing the maintenance codes for some of the less frequent items. Example: the rear diff was last done at 41.5k miles (it threw an A16 code).

2. I am well aware that the ATF change procedure is not a simple drain and fill. I have the tools and the ability, but I don't feel like fighting Honda over extended warranty coverage saying I may have done the procedure wrong in the event the trans grenades itself. If this were any other transmission I wouldn't care as much, but I know the 9 speed has issues...particularly the earlier model year 3rd gen Pilots. Local dealer is quoting ~$290 for the change so I'm not terribly upset with the prospect of having them do it.

I am generally just more concerned with Honda having an issue with the fact I didn't have an ATF change right at (or before) 60K even though the car never told me to (in the event I need to try and have it replaced under the extended warranty). That's why I was asking if this is the norm for some Pilots, I haven't seen anything in the manual (or otherwise from Honda) that would indicate 60k is the hard number.

If I had the ability to do ATF service myself, I'd do it. As proof, save the receipt when you buy the 3.1 ATF. Even document the milage on your Honda Owners account on their website.
If the MM tells you to do the ATF next time or in the future, your ahead of the game. If you missed the service and was supposed to do earlier, it's not like you can go back and fix that. You've done all you can do.

 

I will just say that I find it ironic that Nail Grease is so adamant that a home DIY of drain and fill shouldn't/can't be done by the owner on the 9 speed transmission unless the service procedure to check the level is done. Yet he praises MaxLife ATF for the 9 speed which is not an approved fluid for use by Honda. Which will void a warranty first, a drain and fill by a home DIYer who puts in the same amount that came out (which how would the dealership even know it was done unless they were told) or the use of a non approved fluid? Wrong fluid would be easy to tell, a drain and fill having been done would not be noticeable. Only other question is why does Honda say in the procedure to replace the drain plug each time the fluid is changed out? I didn't do that and others who have done the drain and fill on this transmission haven't either.

Valvoline MaxLife ATF is recommended by, gee go figure, Valvoline. Valvoline also recommends it for the DW1 replacement. How can such a fluid be meeting the special requirements of the 3.1 Honda fluid and the Honda DW1???? Honda themselves say these fluids are not interchangeable and can't be used in transmissions other than what they are designed for. There are owners who have used the MaxLife in the 9 speed and I hope it works out in the long run for them.

In order to do the "proper" fluid check not only does the car have to be put into VSA mode (which owner's have reported they haven't been able to do without special equipment because it wouldn't go into 4th gear?) but the transmission temperature also has to be monitored. That would require the purchase of another tool to retrieve the temperature. A hand held heat temperature scanner couldn't be used because in order to read the fluid, the drain plug would have to be out. Trying to read the case would not give an accurate reading. These are some of the reasons I skipped these steps and did it the way others have done with no problem

Bottom line is I am confident in the drain and fill method and the amount which came out and which went back in. There was even a post from an owner who checked with his dealership and they told him this is how they do the drain and fill and they don't do the VSA or temperature monitoring. Perhaps they would if a lesser amount of fluid came out?

Really don't want to argue the point, but for me and I am sure for others this is a way to do the fluid drain and fill without extra costs of special tools or a dealership visit. Why would the owner's manual even list the amount of fluid to expect when draining and refilling?

YMMV!

 

I will just say that I find it ironic that Nail Grease is so adamant that a home DIY of drain and fill shouldn't/can't be done by the owner on the 9 speed transmission unless the service procedure to check the level is done.

I explained above. Adding back what drained out may not be an accurate filling. If this was done several times over, would it continue to have the correct amount of fluid in it? I don't want a call from the Mrs. some day, telling me she's stranded, only to find out the transmission was low on ATF. Please explain how I can give a person simple drain and fill instructions without knowing if there is an ATF leak. His wife and kids may be driving cross country.

Yet he praises MaxLife ATF for the 9 speed which is not an approved fluid for use by Honda. Which will void a warranty first, a drain and fill by a home DIYer who puts in the same amount that came out (which how would the dealership even know it was done unless they were told) or the use of a non approved fluid? Wrong fluid would be easy to tell, a drain and fill having been done would not be noticeable.

Do we know that using MaxLife ATF will void the warranty? MaxLife has been proven to work in many ZF transmissions, I found it good to know that some found it to work fine in this Honda 9-speed as a less expensive alternative.

Only other question is why does Honda say in the procedure to replace the drain plug each time the fluid is changed out? I didn't do that and others who have done the drain and fill on this transmission haven't either.

As a precaution. It is a unique size green rubber o-ring that can with heat and age loose it's integrity and begin to leak. I have the same plugs on my BMW with a ZF transmission. I am forced to replace. It'd be nice to be able to just replace the O-ring for pennies instead of the whole plug.

Valvoline MaxLife ATF is recommended by, gee go figure, Valvoline. Valvoline also recommends it for the DW1 replacement. How can such a fluid be meeting the special requirements of the 3.1 Honda fluid and the Honda DW1???? Honda themselves say these fluids are not interchangeable and can't be used in transmissions other than what they are designed for. There are owners who have used the MaxLife in the 9 speed and I hope it works out in the long run for them.

I do not own a 9-speed Honda transmission. I do own a BMW X5 that has a ZF transmission that Valvoline claims MaxLife will work in. I used the BMW fluid if it makes you feel better. There are other BMW owners using MaxLife in their BMWs successfully, logging many miles. I got shamed by a family member for even suggesting it. Lol!

In order to do the "proper" fluid check not only does the car have to be put into VSA mode (which owner's have reported they haven't been able to do without special equipment because it wouldn't go into 4th gear?) but the transmission temperature also has to be monitored. That would require the purchase of another tool to retrieve the temperature. A hand held heat temperature scanner couldn't be used because in order to read the fluid, the drain plug would have to be out. Trying to read the case would not give an accurate reading. These are some of the reasons I skipped these steps and did it the way others have done with no problem

Bottom line is I am confident in the drain and fill method and the amount which came out and which went back in. There was even a post from an owner who checked with his dealership and they told him this is how they do the drain and fill and they don't do the VSA or temperature monitoring. Perhaps they would if a lesser amount of fluid came out?

yes, and I do have the equipment to service this and my BMWs ZF transmission as specified. I don't say this proudly, as if I have some special abilities. I hate the procedure, it's ridiculous, obviously a money grab set up not providing a dipstick. I'm going to roll with it though.

Really don't want to argue the point, but for me and I am sure for others this is a way to do the fluid drain and fill without extra costs of special tools or a dealership visit. Why would the owner's manual even list the amount of fluid to expect when draining and refilling?
YMMV!

I can't argue with you being able to drive 28k miles after a simple D&F. According to @Slvr7 , a Honda tech, others have tried and failed, not getting it filled properly.

 

Now that this has been hashed over pretty well, can we move on to the topic of nitrogen in tires?

I respect Nail Grease as a mechanic and even though he may be a bit shy to admit it, he does have special abilities. His numerus informative posts on various subjects has proven that. 👍

We just have to agree to disagree about an owner doing just a drain and fill on a 9 speed without doing a fluid check afterwards as outlined in the Honda procedure.

I also have the Honda extended warranty and have no fear of it being an issue with my draining and filling the fluid. JMHO

 

Fwiw, there is good reason to follow the procedure, as the Shift quality can be affected by seemingly slight variation in the fluid level
ref: 2020 RL transmission fluid change
also you don’t need the HDS, as the 9AT temps can be read with most any scan tools

 

Im reading my ZF9 temperature with a 4$ OBD2 dongle and the CarScanner app for Android. It even didn't want additional configuration.

 

That's interesting! You are the first person I've seen that has gotten the ZF9 temps to read using a generic OBDII reader.

 

Actually I've read about it here in the forum.

 

As someone who has had a number of Hondas over the years this 9 speed transmission maintenance thread causes me a bit of concern. It looks like the ATF replacement procedure is a lot more complex than the older transmissions. Is this something you would trust to your local automotive shop or should this only be done at the dealer?

 

I'd simply ask if they have the ability to put the transmission in maintenance mode to do the job properly. If not, it be safer going to the dealership. Especially if your still under warranty.

 

There are a lot of ZF transmissions running around out there and the ZF8 and ZF9 in Dodge/Chrysler, BMW, and others all use more or less the same drain and fill procedure. I would expect any competent shop to be able to follow the instructions, but for any one who isn't comfortable asking specifics to their mechanic I would just take it to the dealer.

 

OK - Thanks. Any idea on the cost for this service?

 

If you go to a dealer it can vary, I just had mine done at a dealer for ~$290

 

Guys, for the 3rd gen 2022 Pilot with the ZF9, if you do low miles, like 3.5K a year, does anyone know by time regardless of miles in a case like this that you'd need to change the ATF, is 5 years reasonable? It's "severe" driving with a lot of stop and go traffic in Staten Island, short trips under 4 miles and hot and cold cycles too of course in summer/winter. I do take it for a long trip at least once a year, just did so a month ago to Cape May NJ, around 300 miles round trip, but that's a one off once a year.

 

Time is not a critical factor for the fluid, but the miles and driving environment are. With mostly stop-and-go traffic like that, a 20-30k mile change interval is probably reasonable. It'll take you somewhere between 5 and 8 years to get to that point at your mileage accumulation rate. I would agree with a 5 year interval just to keep the math easy.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply hokiefyd, I appreciate it, I'll stick with the 5 year / 30K schedule. I saw a video from the car care nut (Toyota based viewpoint, but should be the same for all automatics) where he suggest the fewest amount of reasonable DNF as the microscopic material floating in the fluids help with friction joins and the more wear (less friction material on the gears) and fresh fluid, the less it has to join to with friction material. I know Nail Grease and AVC have lively debates on ATF/(DW|VML) and by the time I do the inital change I'll use the DW until the warranty expires and try VML. I really wish Honda provided an OEM cooler factory base installed for it in addition to the warmer. With the economy of scale they can leverage, it would've been much cheaper and reliable for everyone with a small bump in MSRP than it is now, but of course, Honda needs to send out corporate welfare checks to shareholders so we get screwed.