The previous iteration, the J35Y6, was GDI as well. That part isn't new.

The big change is going to DOHC instead of SOHC like the previous iterations of the J series. They're also using hydraulic valve tappets, a first for the J series.

Personally, I strongly disagree with even including the Y8 as a member of the J series family. IMO, it and the J30AC are different enough from the rest of the pack to warrant being part of a new engine family.

It remains to be seen how VCM-4 will differ from its predecessors too. Obviously the activation system is different because of the hydraulic tappets, but there's likely other differences too.

 

Those are excellent point. And I mis-spoke because I forgot about the Y6 as I came from a 2nd gen 2015.

Still, even the change from SOHC to DOHC doesn’t seem to change much in terms of power, emissions or fuel economy. So what have we gained other than more complexity?

 

It also comes at the expense of repairability. If you need to replace a valve cover (something that was not entirely uncommon with the SOHC J series due to corrosion), it is only sold with the entire cylinder head as there are cam journals built into the valve cover.

This is what someone on Odyclub who works for the parts department at a dealer had to say about the new engine:

I'm hesitant about this new DOHC V6 they are trying out. Weird stuff all over it. Twin independent cam timing similar to Ford. Hydraulic tappets, no more valve adjustments. The same crap direct injection. External EGR eliminated. Valve covers are part of the cylinder head, they have cam journals in the upper head cover and are not serviceable, you get them with a new cylinder head. 10 speed auto with basically no serviceable internal components. Transfer case is the same way. My diagrams are very bare for those, they seem to intend complete unit replacement instead of rebuilds.

Just ... Doesn't look like a Honda at all. I saw the diagrams when the posted and I actually laughed and said if I didn't see the Honda logos I thought this looked more like a Ford V6 than anything.

Original post

 

It also comes at the expense of repairability. If you need to replace a valve cover (something that was not entirely uncommon with the SOHC J series due to corrosion), it is only sold with the entire cylinder head as there are cam journals built into the valve cover.

This is what someone on Odyclub who works for the parts department at a dealer had to say about the new engine:


Original post

This kind of thing is more in line with my questioning the need for the design changes.

 

from an article I just read...
"
Combined with a new direct-injection system with pressure cranked up by 50%, fuel delivery is more controlled. The system can inject three squirts of gasoline per combustion cycle. The result is a lowering of NOx and particulates by 40% to 50%, according to Honda, which gives the V6 an SULEV30 rating. That means it's considered a super-ultra-low-emission light-duty vehicle by 2030 standards.
A cleaner burn rather than outright performance was Honda's goal. As such, expect this V6 to proliferate throughout Honda's large SUVs until the electric Hondas arrive.
"

 

I guess that explains it. I'm all for a cleaner environment, but I have a feeling we're going to pay for that in the long run as all this new complexity requires servicing...

I also find it interesting that there is less correlation between emissions and fuel economy or power that I would have expected.

 

At the end of the day, all Honda needs to do is pass the EPA/CAFE tests to avoid paying fines. Past that, it's not their problem.

So that raises the question of does all this complexity for reduced emissions offset the increased emissions due to components not lasting as long? I'd wager probably not.

 

there are many different emissions that need to be kept in check. in a perfect world the engineers would not have to worry about the large amount of nitrogen that composes the air that surrounds is. this is why fuel economy will only get so good.
ultimately the engine should never need any serious service so long as the owner follows recommended maintenance and uses quality lubricants and fuels.

 

Honda made it clear this newer engine is all about emissions reductions, not performance improvements. It keeps the V6 alive for a few more years, so I'm not going to grumble about it.

@WiiMaster I tried so hard to get one of these a few years back, but it didn't work out. Unfortunately the 6-6 Accord sedan died with the 2008's generation debut. The Coupe made it 2 more generations.

 

It keeps the V6 alive for a few more years, so I'm not going to grumble about it.

True, but unlike things like VCM and idle stop, we can't bypass fundamental components of the engine design.

@WiiMaster I tried so hard to get one of these a few years back, but it didn't work out. Unfortunately the 6-6 Accord sedan died with the 2008's generation debut. The Coupe made it 2 more generations.

The 6-6 sedan only died officially...

There's a guy on DriveAccord who totaled his 8th gen 6-6 coupe and transplanted the powertrain into a V6 sedan, for the world's only 8th gen 6-6 sedan. It's pretty sweet.

 

True, but unlike things like VCM and idle stop, we can't bypass fundamental components of the engine design.

This is true but V6>not V6... The other options are the Pathfinder or Korean twins to get a V6. I guess Grand Cherokee L as well.

I'd be good with a new engine designation (let the J series be SOHC only) but I'm OK with Honda bringing new technology to the engine until proven to be problematic. I will say that I hope Honda has the valve cover gasket design such that they never leak because that will be an annoying DIY job with built in cam caps.

The 6-6 sedan only died officially...

There's a guy on DriveAccord who totaled his 8th gen 6-6 coupe and transplanted the powertrain into a V6 sedan, for the world's only 8th gen 6-6 sedan. It's pretty sweet.

Wow, that's awesome. Biggest problem is the 8th gens always looked like they were 120% the size they should be, slightly overweight looking. I am a 7th gen Purist but I also really enjoyed the very formal look of the 9th gen (not so much the 9.5 refresh). I was very close to a Sport 6MT 9th gen at one point.

 

Wow, that's awesome. Biggest problem is the 8th gens always looked like they were 120% the size they should be, slightly overweight looking. I am a 7th gen Purist but I also really enjoyed the very formal look of the 9th gen (not so much the 9.5 refresh). I was very close to a Sport 6MT 9th gen at one point.

Personally, I like the increased size of the 8th gen. It's one of the reasons I came back to it instead of buying a 9th gen V6 or an Acura TL/TLX. What I don't like is that it got the short end of the stick powertrain-wise, at least on the automatic models. The 7th gens had the nice V6 with VTEC and no VCM, the 9th gens had VCM but at least had VTEC to go with it, the 8th gen gets the worst of it with VCM and no VTEC, unless you get the 6-6 version. The resulting lack of bottom end torque becomes quite apparent when you go to accelerate. My Odyssey feels smoother and quicker because of it.

There's a reason the 6-6 has a faster 0-60 by like 2 seconds.

 

Same thing with the 2nd gen Pilot... my Traverse dates back to '09 (I think '11 for the GDI version of the engine) but it feels like diesel torque compared to the Pilot. Great vehicle, nice enough drivetrain but the lack of low end torque and high end power makes me careful in a merge situation.

Yeah, I get more and more tempted each day to spend the $200 on the P2R intake manifold spacer and install it on mine. It's supposed to get some of that low end torque back at the expense of some high end power (which at 271hp I have plenty to spare). I've heard other 8th gen V6 owners say it made a pretty significant difference.

I will say the acceleration is still adequate IMO for merge situations and is fine once you get higher in the RPM range (which makes sense), but it definitely could be better, especially from a stop.

No doubt, the 8th gen had the most room. I remember on DriveAccord people would compare it with the Avalon and Azera rather than the Camry and Sonata.

Yep, and even by EPA standards, it is nearly a full-sized sedan like the Avalon instead of a mid-size. Speaking from experience, the back seat is quite comfortable for a quick nap.

 

I thought the DOHC V6 was going to spread across Honda. So far, not yet. The refresh MDX and Ridgeline both are staying with the SOHC. Why?

We can say it's not a major update. This is maybe for another thread, but we can debate if there will be a legit "new" model, as I'm sure resources are heading toward EVs. If Honda spent the $$$, time, resources for the new DOHC to meet emission, why hasn't it spread across all models?

The Odyssey is up next. Current rumors/spy shots show it's the same vehicle, with new interior, face, etc. At this time, I'll bet that it stays with the old J35 SOHC.

 

The MDX and Ridgeline were both refreshed, it's not a new generation. So it makes sense that they didn't bring in a new engine. Also consider that the MDX does have the DOHC V6 for the Type-S model. Not the J35 like the Pilot, but the J30AC.

Said Odyssey spy shots are over a year old. I'm personally not buying the "refresh" rumors until I see it. Probably will know something within the next couple months.

Considering Honda is having trouble even getting parts for the one vehicle that uses the DOHC J35, perhaps they are waiting for that situation to stabilize before locking the whole V6 fleet into it.