Our '07 2WD did just as well as any other 2WD this winter in Cleveland, compared with other vehicles we've owned. We've had AWD on other vehicles. I was definitely not disappointed with the 2WD Pilot in this regard.

This may sound counter-intuitive: I have more trouble with the Pilot in "simple" wet weather than I typically have had with other vehicles. I'm reasonably convinced this is due to the Goodyear integrities (a search will yield many posts complaining about these tires). It is not a braking problem nor a steering-grip problem, it is just when accelerating "medium hard" from a stop, the tires will lose grip much more easily than I want. It seems I am very much not alone in this. I don't feel unsafe, it just bugs me, and eventually, I'll get a set of Fortera TripleTreads or Michelin Cross Terrains which are two popular tires among other users, although there are several brands people have tried and liked. People don't seem to have the same issue once they change the tires.

I would absolutely buy the 2WD again. If the Pilot suits you, you'll likely be happy with either 2WD or 4WD.

Good luck!

 

The single most important aspect in snow performance is the tire. I'd almost always take a FWD vehicle with snow/ice tires over a 4wd / awd with all season rubber.

That being said - i'm very happy with the handling of my 2wd Pilot when traveling up and down the mountains of Lake Tahoe. The GY Fortera Triple Treads are a HUGE improvement over the crappy GY Integritys.

 

i agree with BubbleSparkxx. i have a 4WD model and it does great in snow, but i'm sure it could be better if i had some upgraded tires. the weather in ca is getting warmer, so i'll probably wait until next snow season before ditching the integrities.

 

FWD in snow is okay in the flatlands. try to climb a hill or mountain pass with it and good luck.

 

The single most important aspect in snow performance is the tire. I'd almost always take a FWD vehicle with snow/ice tires over a 4wd / awd with all season rubber.

That being said - i'm very happy with the handling of my 2wd Pilot when traveling up and down the mountains of Lake Tahoe. The GY Fortera Triple Treads are a HUGE improvement over the crappy GY Integritys.

Yes. Tires are very important in snow driving. And FWD with snow tires might perform better in certain conditions than 4WD with all season.
How about the comparison of FWD and 4WD with the same type of tires?
My experience is that you can do well with FWD but you do much better with 4WD. Especially in the mountains. This is one of the reasons CHP doesn't require 4WD to install chains in most winter conditions.

Michal :4:

 

Why are people talking about mountains when the OP stated he lives in St. Louis?

Anyway, youbetcha's post should have answered the OP's question.

 

Why are people talking about mountains when the OP stated he lives in St. Louis?

Anyway, youbetcha's post should have answered the OP's question.

Oh - it is simple
First - as I stated, in my opinion 4WD is superior to 2WD on snow, ESPECIALLY in the mountains (but not only)
Second - there are others who possibly read this post and may benefit from my opinion.

Michal :4:

 

No question AWD with snows is the best combination when trekking around in winter conditions - but keep in mind the additional penalties the 4WD system carries around. Specifically, 150 lbs in weight, a lower ride height, and additional maintenance. Plus given the front wheel drive bias, I have to question the value and value of performance of the 4wd drivetrain over the FWD drivetrain.

That being said - if i did hit up Tahoe on a frequent basis in the winter time - there's no question that I would have taken the 4WD over the FWD.

 

Our '04 is an AWD (I think they all were at that point, right?) and even with the Integrity stockers we were able to navigate the worst Cleveland's weather had to offer. We always had 4wd or AWD (3 Subarus, the Pilot and an Isuzu Rodeo Sport) and we now live in Raleigh, NC where we had one real snow recently and my FWD Volvo was the worst winter vehicle I have ever driven. Meanwhile, my wife drove to work in the Pilot (still running 'Tegs) like it was an 80 degree summer day. I personally cannot stand FWD and would never buy another one even with the limited possibility of snow for us now. As far as the increased cost to maintain the 4wd vs 2wd, we have changed the diff fluid (VTM in Honda world) a few times and that is it...not a notable cost vs the ability to go where we want, when we want. Bottom line - 4wd Pilot is not a compromise - MPG differs by 1 mpg (4wd is lower) and the 150lb weight difference is not a factor. The Honda specs list the ground clearance as the same on the new ones, not sure about the older ones.

BTW - We are up to about 160,000 on our '04 now.

 

My father's driveway is long and very steep. No FWD vehicle, even with snow tires, has made it up when it is icy and has 6 inches of snow.

My AWD Pilot, with stock tires, climbed it with ease, as did my father's 2007 AWD Highalnder (which pretty much has summer tires).

 

old video of 1st gen pilot handling snow (a bit choppy, but still decent):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTIk5njJ_3A

what happens when you turn off the VSA and let loose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJz-jPME3YM

 

old video of 1st gen pilot handling snow (a bit choppy, but still decent):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTIk5njJ_3A

what happens when you turn off the VSA and let loose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJz-jPME3YM

This shows that 4WD is still partly RWD and can be prone to oversteer. (I know the VSA is off).

 

This shows that 4WD is still partly RWD and can be prone to oversteer. (I know the VSA is off).

Get on a steep, slippery slope. Disable VSA and enable VTM-4 lock. Put transmission in L and floor it. If the rear wheel grip is poor, the back end will slingshot either left or right.

I wish the VTM-4 lock would allow all four wheels to spin simultaneously instead of just three.

 

I wish the VTM-4 lock would allow all four wheels to spin simultaneously instead of just three.

Is the front an open differential, or is it limited slip? Sometimes when there is traction control, they rely on that to control the spinning wheel, and send power across the open differential to the other side.

We had an 04 highlander, it was basically 3 open diffs (front, rear, center) and used the traction control when wheels spun. The point was that the AWD would only need 1/2 as much traction under each tire compared to a 2WD, but when something lost traction it wasn't so good at recovering.

 

I read that only 3 of 4 wheels will spin, but I may be wrong. The Pilot and CR-V work really well in the snow, but I do know that my Pilot didn't work well on a steep, dirt climb. Perhaps these two videos explain why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dVFY5CxT0

 

I read that only 3 of 4 wheels will spin, but I may be wrong. The Pilot and CR-V work really well in the snow, but I do know that my Pilot didn't work well on a steep, dirt climb. Perhaps these two videos explain why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dVFY5CxT0

The Pilot has an open front differential and a clutch pack at each rear wheel. If you only have traction at one front wheel, then you aren't going anywhere. Also, the usable torque at the rear wheels is limited by the capacity of the clutch packs. Once the capacity is exceeded, the clutch packs will just slip and the Pilot won't go anywhere if there is no traction up front. (Note that the rear clutch packs are only engaged when slippage is detected, during acceleration, or when the VTM lock is engaged).

 

So if one front wheel is slipping, power will be sent to both rear wheels? Or to just one rear wheel? Or neither?

 

The whole concept of "power being sent" to a wheel, as most of the 4WD advertising like to say, is probably the single that gets these conversations off track.

EDIT:

The best way to think about this is to understand that engine is turning the drive line. The front wheels are hard attached to the drive line with an open differential. This means the average of the speed of the front wheels will match the speed of the drive line.
Each real wheel is independently connected to the drive line through electrically operated clutches. They are designed to either turn free or turn at the drive line speed. Some slippage is allowed, but if they are operating under load and the clutches are slipping they will overheat very quickly.

How many wheels are spinning depends on how much power is applied to the driveline and if any or all of the tires have lost enough traction to allow them to spin.

Forget about all the"50/50 torque split", "power being sent" and other poorly thought out descriptions and you will be better off.

 

So if one front wheel is slipping, power will be sent to both rear wheels? Or to just one rear wheel? Or neither?

The answer really depends on what else is going on at the time. The rear clutch packs are engaged under 3 different conditions (acceleration/slippage/VTM Lock). This link has probably more info than you ever want to know. There will be a test later............

 

The best way to think about this is to understand that engine is turning the drive line. The front wheels are hard attached to the drive line with an open differential. This means the average of the speed of the front wheels will match the speed of the drive line.

Too simplistic. What you are ignoring is that driveline torque is also applied to the ground equally to both sides of the open differential, regardless of the spinning.

If you take a spinning wheel and let traction control clamp it so that it can't spin at all, then all the spinning (and torque) is necessarily applied to the OTHER side -- the one with traction. Traction control rarely just "clamps" down like this long but it does provide that effect.

So if you don't like "transferred across" then you can say that by applying brakes to the spinning wheel, traction control increases the torque being applied by the drivetrain to the spinning side of the differential, therefore also increases torque to the other side, presumably the side with more traction.

Doesn't work "great" because they don't tend to allow the brakes to clamp very long, other technologies limiting slip in differentials work better.

 

Yes,, it is simplistic.

I was not discussing traction control, and I still believe that most people(educated with the many 4WD marketing out there) are more confused than not trying to use the "send power" analogy.

Torque on each side of an open differential is equal. Torque can not be applied without a load.
Traction control provide a load on the side with less traction increasing the torque on both sides.

 

THANKS!!!

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the great replies. I think what I've established is I would rather have 4WD, but if a 2WD that matched all my specific requirements came along for the right price I wouldn't turn it down.

And I definitely understand what everyone is saying in regard to the tires. My Maxima came, as all do, with really crappy Bridgestone tires. Worst tires I've ever had. It seems that bad OEM tires are a standard no matter who the manufacturer is.

Again, I appreciate the great response. Now I just need to be patient while I wait to find the right pre-owned Pilot. (Easier said than done!)

Thanks everyone!

 

The answer really depends on what else is going on at the time. The rear clutch packs are engaged under 3 different conditions (acceleration/slippage/VTM Lock). This link has probably more info than you ever want to know. There will be a test later............

Interesting read.

This statement from that article:
Locking: When the vehicle is placed in Manual 1st or 2nd and the VTM-4 button is pressed, the differential initiates full lock (5 amps to the coils) until the vehicle reaches 6mph.

How does the vehicle determine when it has reached 6mph? Does it measure it using the rotational speed of a wheel that has no power applied to it?

 

Interesting read.

This statement from that article:
Locking: When the vehicle is placed in Manual 1st or 2nd and the VTM-4 button is pressed, the differential initiates full lock (5 amps to the coils) until the vehicle reaches 6mph.

How does the vehicle determine when it has reached 6mph? Does it measure it using the rotational speed of a wheel that has no power applied to it?

Maybe average of all wheels, or maybe the speed of the slowest wheel.