[xGS]

Has anyone tried an alternative to Honda VTM-4 differential fluid? Has anyone sent VTM-4 to a lab for analysis.

Edit: I added MSDS for VTM-4 as well as several other fluids all of them are atf fluids. The physical properties are very similar. I wish there was more info on the additive packages. The CAS numbers listed do have some information.
VTM-4 seems to be ATF fluid. Alternatives compatible with multi plate clutches probably would be better suited.

Edit 7/15/2023 Amalie Co and BG Syncro Shift® II claim their product meets VTM-4 specs.
My opinion at this time is there are at least two viable substitutes available. The BG product is more expensive. The Amalie a bit less. Postings on this and other sites that say there is no alternative to the Honda product are incorrect.

Show us where Honda approves the use of those alternative substitutes.

While the fluid manufacturer may claim that their product is "compatible and suitable" relative to a specific automaker's branded fluid, if the automaker doesn't state that the alternative product is recommended/approved, then there is no officially sanctioned alternative.

 

[Nail Grease]

Show us where Honda approves the use of those alternative substitutes.

Do I need Honda’s approval to use anything aftermarket in my Honda vehicle? Especially if my vehicle isn’t under warranty.

 

[xGS]

Do I need Honda’s approval to use anything aftermarket in my Honda vehicle? Especially if my vehicle isn’t under warranty.

Of course not.

But, how badly do you not want to use the Honda-approved fluid that you're willing to risk damaging a $4K rear differential unit in case it turns out that whatever alternative fluid you put into it is not "compatible and suitable"?
If that should happen, will any of the manufacturers of that alternative fluid pay for the repair/replacement?
For a fluid change that gets done every few years, what do you really expect to accomplish by using something other than the Honda recommended/approved fluid?

 

[Nail Grease]

Of course not.

But, how badly do you not want to use the Honda-approved fluid that you're willing to risk damaging a $4K rear differential unit in case it turns out that whatever alternative fluid you put into it is not "compatible and suitable"?
If that should happen, will any of the manufacturers of that alternative fluid pay for the repair/replacement?
For a fluid change that gets done every few years, what do you really expect to accomplish by using something other than the Honda recommended/approved fluid?

Most on the forum know that there isn’t any real world experience with aftermarket market fluids as a replacement for Honda VTM-4. It is an interesting discussion that I feel is long overdue. I’m sure there’s nothing magical about Honda VTM-4 fluid, but obviously there isn’t enough $ there for other companies to pursue. Convenience (often out of ignorance), quality (full synthetic can be a deciding factor for the educated), and price could influence the decision to buy aftermarket. But right now, If you ask AutoZone for differential fluid for a Honda Pilot, they don’t offer a solution.

 

[Dale666]

I posted info about LiquiMoly in the initial post and changed the title. This brings to three the number of well known mfrs that make VTM-4 fluid alternatives. Four if Triax is included.

 

[cintocrunch]

Interesting info you are gathering here... the Amalie one I've seen before but I don't know if anyone tried it. The Liqui-Moly one is a little generic sales response-like.

The biggest issue is you most likely won't know if a different fluid is causing problems until you need AWD in bad weather or off road and it's not working. I think on the Ridgeline forum it's called the "Silent Death", no lights or warnings just no AWD.

 

[Dale666]

Interesting info you are gathering here... the Amalie one I've seen before but I don't know if anyone tried it. The Liqui-Moly one is a little generic sales response-like.

The biggest issue is you most likely won't know if a different fluid is causing problems until you need AWD in bad weather or off road and it's not working. I think on the Ridgeline forum it's called the "Silent Death", no lights or warnings just no AWD.

I'm not recommending any of these. I'm posting this because when someone asks about alternatives, it is dishonest to say there are none. This information is to be used at one's own risk.

 

[Dale666]

Interesting info you are gathering here... the Amalie one I've seen before but I don't know if anyone tried it. The Liqui-Moly one is a little generic sales response-like.

The biggest issue is you most likely won't know if a different fluid is causing problems until you need AWD in bad weather or off road and it's not working. I think on the Ridgeline forum it's called the "Silent Death", no lights or warnings just no AWD.

Please send me links to the forums talking about the "Silent Death".

 

[STMech]

Most on the forum know that there isn’t any real world experience with aftermarket market fluids as a replacement for Honda VTM-4. It is an interesting discussion that I feel is long overdue. I’m sure there’s nothing magical about Honda VTM-4 fluid, but obviously there isn’t enough $ there for other companies to pursue. Convenience (often out of ignorance), quality (full synthetic can be a deciding factor for the educated), and price could influence the decision to buy aftermarket. But right now, If you ask AutoZone for differential fluid for a Honda Pilot, they don’t offer a solution.

IMO, why bother trying to find an alternative to VTM-4? The Honda branded lube is not all that expensive, and you don’t need that much for a service. And, the service interval is not all that frequent.

I just don’t see the need for an alternative. Just use the Honda fluid. Rear differential problems are not common in Pilots. Isn’t that a clue that the Honda fluid is just fine?

In my opinion, Dale666 is just chasing his tail on this issue. Unless he’s trying to sell us some Triax lube that does it all.

 

[xGS]

I'm not recommending any of these. I'm posting this because when someone asks about alternatives, it is dishonest to say there are none.

When there is no Honda approved alternate for the VTM-4 fluid, there is nothing "dishonest" about stating that there is no alternative.
If a fluid manufacturer claims that their product is a direct substitute for the Honda-branded VTM-4 fluid, ask them what testing they have done to support that claim. Have they actually tested it in a VTM-4 unit and for how long did they run it?

 

[Dale666]

IMO, why bother trying to find an alternative to VTM-4? The Honda branded lube is not all that expensive, and you don’t need that much for a service. And, the service interval is not all that frequent.

I just don’t see the need for an alternative. Just use the Honda fluid. Rear differential problems are not common in Pilots. Isn’t that a clue that the Honda fluid is just fine?

In my opinion, Dale666 is just chasing his tail on this issue. Unless he’s trying to sell us some Triax lube that does it all.

I'm still waiting for information from someone who has used Triax Global. I find the options and information on this site much too narrow, and am presenting wider choices. The ratio of salesmen to enthusiast is not in the enthusiast's favor.

 

[Nail Grease]

IMO, why bother trying to find an alternative to VTM-4? The Honda branded lube is not all that expensive, and you don’t need that much for a service. And, the service interval is not all that frequent.

I just don’t see the need for an alternative. Just use the Honda fluid. Rear differential problems are not common in Pilots. Isn’t that a clue that the Honda fluid is just fine?

Same could be said about Honda power steering fluid. But, I have stated the above reasons. I’m in a Walmart 2-3 times a month, to pickup a quality “known” alternative is more advantageous than running to the dealership. During the pandemic, placing a Walmart, Amazon or RockAuto order and having it shipped was the norm. Shipping fluids from dealership sites is expensive.

 

[xGS]

Same could be said about Honda power steering fluid. But, I have stated the above reasons. I’m in a Walmart 2-3 times a month, to pickup a quality “known” alternative is more advantageous than running to the dealership. During the pandemic, placing a Walmart, Amazon or RockAuto order and having it shipped was the norm. Shipping fluids from dealership sites is expensive.

How many times a year are you changing the VTM-4 fluid that "running to the dealership" to buy it is such an inconvenience?

 

[Nail Grease]

How many times a year are you changing the VTM-4 fluid that "running to the dealership" to buy it is such an inconvenience?

Read my comment carefully. I don’t have any issue using any Honda lubricants until there’s a better or at least equal substitution I can conveniently purchase somewhere else. I’d buy Honda VTM-4 fluid if I needed it.

 

[Dale666]

IMO, why bother trying to find an alternative to VTM-4? The Honda branded lube is not all that expensive, and you don’t need that much for a service. And, the service interval is not all that frequent.

I just don’t see the need for an alternative. Just use the Honda fluid. Rear differential problems are not common in Pilots. Isn’t that a clue that the Honda fluid is just fine?

In my opinion, Dale666 is just chasing his tail on this issue. Unless he’s trying to sell us some Triax lube that does it all.

Ultimately the issue I am having with some of the people on this site is given the strident opinions often posted without much evidence to support their positions, is I don't trust what they say to be true. Money and status are two of the main motivators for the behaviors I'm observing. My thoughts when I interact is someone is often " Is this person trying make a sale and get paid or is he trying for an ego boost." Of the two, money seems to the motivator I see here, given that the management's stated purpose for this commercial site is the opportunity for vendors to interact with potential customers.
Businesses that try to sell based only on what stock they have on hand vs what a customer really needs, or wants, are short sighted in my opinion. There are more options, solutions, and products then what is being sold here. I hope to widen the selection.

 

[Nail Grease]

Ultimately the issue I am having with some of the people on this site is given the strident opinions often posted without much evidence to support their positions, is I don't trust what they say to be true. Money and status are two of the main motivators for the behaviors I'm observing. My thoughts when I interact is someone is often " Is this person trying make a sale and get paid or is he trying for an ego boost." Of the two, money seems to the motivator I see here, given that the management's stated purpose for this commercial site is the opportunity for vendors to interact with potential customers.
Business that try to sell based only on what stock they have on hand vs what a customer really needs, or wants, are short sighted in my opinion. There are more options, solutions, and products then what is being sold here. I hope to widen the selection.

You probably still have me blocked.

I’m all for tested aftermarket products. Research and manufacture recommendations can make you feel more comfortable using a product. But what we want on the forum is real world experience from trusted members. Ego or for any other reason, I want to hear from the guy or company that proves it works. Put it in your vehicle, drive 50k miles, make a video, post pictures, build your credibility. You could be that man. Otherwise it’s all talk.

 

[xGS]

Read my comment carefully.

You didn't answer the question "How many times a year are you changing the VTM-4 fluid"?

 

[Nail Grease]

You didn't answer the question "How many times a year are you changing the VTM-4 fluid"?

It’s been a while since I don’t own a vehicle that requires VTM-4 fluid. It’s usually for someone else’s.

 

[xGS]

It’s been a while since I don’t own a vehicle that requires VTM-4 fluid. It’s usually for someone else’s.

So, the concern. for you, about having to go to a dealer to get VTM-4 fluid is a non-issue.

 

[Nail Grease]

So, the concern. for you, about having to go to a dealer to get VTM-4 fluid is a non-issue.

Less of a concern. If I were helping a family member or friend, one of us would have to go to the dealership for VTM-4 fluid. Although all but one has converted to Valvoline MaxLife ATF, but it’s just a matter of time 😄👍. Power steering fluid and Coolant I’m the Lone Ranger using aftermarket alternatives.