[gmride]

@STMech Well, 9 speed, but I get the drift!

That fluttering has been happening since, gosh, probably before the car even hit 20k miles.

So I guess what this all comes down to is if there something that could cause that torque convertor to start slipping like that and also be the cause of that one tire location (driver side front) to wear so extremely?

I know the usual issue of the Torque convertor getting wanky is the VCM (I beleive usually after more mileage and the 6 speed), but for the sake of this conversation, what if something else caused it.

 

[hokiefyd]

@gmride have you installed a VCM disable device? From the video shots, it looks like that was climbing a slight grade where it wouldn't be in 3-cylinder operation, but this looks similar to the fluctuations while in 3-cylinder mode. Except it looks like it probably should have been in 6-cylinder mode.

(to be clear, 3-cylinder operation will slip the torque converter slightly to where the RPM will flutter a little bit...and it will jump and then fall by about 300 rpm or so during transitions between 3- and 6-cylinder modes...if you have not disabled VCM, it's possible that what you're seeing is the VCM operation)

 

[gmride]

@gmride have you installed a VCM disable device? From the video shots, it looks like that was climbing a slight grade where it wouldn't be in 3-cylinder operation, but this looks similar to the fluctuations while in 3-cylinder mode. Except it looks like it probably should have been in 6-cylinder mode.

(to be clear, 3-cylinder operation will slip the torque converter slightly to where the RPM will flutter a little bit...and it will jump and then fall by about 300 rpm or so during transitions between 3- and 6-cylinder modes...if you have not disabled VCM, it's possible that what you're seeing is the VCM operation)

IDK there may have been a very slight incline. Seemed pretty flat to me - but there probably aren't many perfectly flat roads around here.. The RPM does it on what seems flat, basically. Or slight grades. Not going up hills or 75mph or steep downhill where it's off the throttle.

In the land of 55mp highways here, it basically does it 1/2+ the time I'm on the highway.

Nope, nothing aftermarket installed one this car. I don't mess with that stuff.

If that RPM movement is normal operating behavior, well, I'm surprised I guess. Seems weird to me, shaking like that.

 

[Karl2020]

Get a SVCM or VCMTuner II and install it. That will stop the RPM fluttering and prolong the life of the torque converter. Dealer will NOT install but it's pretty easy. I have the VCMTuner II and have no issues.

 

[gmride]

Get a SVCM or VCMTuner II and install it. That will stop the RPM fluttering and prolong the life of the torque converter. Dealer will NOT install but it's pretty easy. I have the VCMTuner II and have no issues.

Thanks for the tip. I've no business making modifications to a vehicle like that, even if it's dead simple.

I let the mechanics do the mechanic'ing.

 

[gmride]

Out of curiosity, I drove around town here in S mode (Sport mode) today for 20min. Lots of 25-35mp stop and go. I've literally never used S mode before, so was just curious hos it shifted and performed in it. I wasn't driving sporty, just usual driving in that mode.

It was terrible! And interestingly the RPM fluttering was even more prevalent in S mode. Fluttered around while cruising at 30 and even seemed like the RPM shaking as it wound down after letting off the throttle, like not one shake, but as the tack dropped it like had a slight rattle as it went dropped down.

I was surprised. I was expecting it to be smoother if you all say this is likely VCM stuff.

 

[garoto]

The fluttering makes it feel as if some type of micro slippage is happening. I honestly sort of remember my Passport doing this and me not worrying about it. But I can’t recall for sure.

 

[garoto]

These digital RPM needles are hyper sensitive. I had a 2017 CR-V and I swear I remember it doing this.

 

[Cbayman]

I'm back, missed you all too much!

For the curious I took a video today of the RPM fluttering on a highway drive. Flat road. Using cruise control (happens regardless). Does this on flats all of the time and can do strange weird jumps and surges if the grade goes down a bit (not steep). It goes away once there's a climb or more gas (say 2000rpm +)

Camera shaking makes it a bit wobbly to watch but it's clear towards the end.

Here's a link to a mov file.

It's 420P so I suggest right clicking and DLing so you can watch it larger outside of the browser

And, FWIW, 2hrs on the highway today, the handling stell felt off to me. Tracked straighter on the new tires, but still noticed a wishy washy and shuffly feel in the corners. Obvious grain of salt with any handling observations as they're impossible to explain or verify

In addition to VCM effects, some of the RPM fluctuations are due to CC varying the throttle to control speed. Looks pretty normal under CC.

 

[gmride]

That's not normal CC behavior. It's way to consistent of a flutter. And it happens with cruise control or without. Unless Honda has a unique CC system unlike all other one's I've driven over the decades? I just knew if I used my foot somone would say my foot had a tremor

Either way, sounds like there's a reason they have the option to turn of the RPM display. That may be the move.

I'm not loosing sleep over any of this at this point. Curious is all. We're just gonna drive it and see what happens. Maybe this will all be fine and none of this will amount to anything.

 

[arojas11361]

So I created an account here just to ask this question as it has everyone stumped so far.

We've a 2021 pilot AWD special edition with 26k miles on it. It has exhibited really strange tire wear on the front tires, mostly front driver side, but also on the front passenger. The wear is what is referred to as chunking. I've never seen anything like it on any car I've owned before...or any car period.

The wear is worst on the front driver side, mostly on the inside, but is happening across the whole face of the tire. And is happening passenger side too, but not as severely On the OEM it is tearing quarter sized chunks off, on the snow tires it's chunking like this and also ripping up the syphed (sp?) treads.

Here's where it gets interesting. We drive it SO mellow. We're like "how good of mpg can we get" drivers. No off-roading. No extreme temp. No metal grates bridges. No 5 point turns to get into or out of parking. Just my wife and I driving it. Low miles. PSI is at 40 and checked consistently.

Furthermore, to reiterate the main catch, this is happening on BOTH the OEM all season wheels+tires AND the winter wheels+tires. So it is the vehicle.

We're talking notable tire damage on two sets of tires that have about 13k miles on them a piece.

I've taken it to a good alignment shop (hunter rack) and he said there was a bit of toe in on the passenger side, but he'd of actually have expected the tire wear to be the opposite of what it was doing. I've taken it to the dealer (under warranty) , and they confirmed alignment was in spec, did a 20 mile test drive, and had no idea. They said they want me to rotate the rear OEMS up front this summer to confirm they keep wearing, but they added they think they're going to have to get the vehicle back in to trouble shoot it more, as they've not seen anything like it before.

I've shown it to a few "car" people I know and none of them can guess at all. Everyone just agrees its very much not normal. Most interesting guess is possibly something wrong with the AWD drivetrain system. Most agree that if it was suspension or a tie rod end or ball joint it'd be noticeable when being driven. I've no idea.

It's been a bit painful as this was our first new "nice" vehicile in our family, and watching it eat through $2k in tires in 3 years...well it feels like something of a lemon.

We would love to figure it out.

I'll attach some pictures of OEM and snow tires. This wear is consistent round the entire tire, and is preent across it's width thought worst in the inside. I'd also add it's a worse in person than in these photos.

For now my plan is to keep on the dealer, but I am open to any suggestions, experience, or feedback!

Thanks for reading and cheers!

View attachment 175474
View attachment 175475

I live in AZ, I had the same issue with the same continental's, 2021 pilot...the first set lasted about 4k and they were pealing off the same way. After 3 hours at the dealership, they replaced them for free...out of that new set, 3 out of 4 tires started pealing off after 10k...I got a wheel and tire warranty which they only agreed to replace 2 tires instead of all 4...or at least the 3 badly damaged. Their response was "they will ask questions if we replace all 4". I'm like who's they? And I don't care because I bought a warranty that they specifically told me was gonna cover that weird wear of a tire. Dealership tried to say it was gravel roads...the heat from AZ...I looked around at like 20 cars waiting to be serviced and asked them if they see that wear on any of the tires out there. And 3 out of 4 tires wearing like that? It can't be the terrain lol.

 

[arojas11361]

It's not my area of expertise, but tires have their own warranty for manufacturer defects separate from the Honda new vehicle warranty. It's not a Honda issue. I would look through your owners manual for further information. Most of my new Acura's have had a tire brochure in the owners manual package. I would start there because your tires are tore up.

Yeah it's not a Honda issue and the manufacturer has to replace them. However, I had 2 separate sets of tires wear like that. Basically the thread pealing off, one time after 4k miles, the new set which they replaced for free...10k miles...if there is something wrong with the tire...stop putting it on a vehicle. At the same time, if I buy a vehicle from Honda I expect them to deal with it...if I picked those tires as an option I can kinda I'm underst but even like that, I didn't buy the wheels on my own, I didn't install them. I'm Honda's customer and Honda is Continental's customer....I didn't buy the wheel from Continental

 

[gmride]

Agreed, nobody I saw who looked at ours said it was within the realm of normal. We also still don't know what it was/is.

We're on these new tires now and after about 3k miles they look fine, but I'd say that's too early to tell. The handling of the vehicle is greatly improved , the constant steering correction and feeling of shuflfling.

Time will tell though. That wear on the last ones started slow, but once it started it worsened really fast.

I stopped thinking about it for now. And as for the shaking RPM, slippage and kind strange transmission (it also started kind of light whining when driving in the hot weather this summer). I turned my RPM gauge off! Solved that problem.

Ultimately we like the vehicle a lot and the cost to trade in and swap to something else was putting out $16k...which didn't make sense. So we're just driving it. Ignoring it's quirks, and I'll watch the tires over the next few years as they set into their wear. Even if it ends up needing a bunch of work, well it'd still likely be the less expensive route...maybe.

 

[hokiefyd]

The digital tachometer gauges are probably pretty difficult to "get right" from a programming and display perspective. The screen resolution is relatively coarse, meaning you see the movement when an animation shifts from one column of pixels to the next.

So then how precise do you make it? If the difference between each thousand RPM intervals is, say, 25 pixels, then each pixel represents 40 RPM. I can certainly see how the engine speed would vary by that much during the normal course of cruising, due to actual engine speed changes from very slight changes in TCC lockup, and due to small variances in the measurement of the engine speed. A 100 RPM swing might be two pixels...or it might be JUST on the border between one column of pixels and the next, so you get this hysteresis thing going on where it's trying to draw it as best as it can, moving the column back and forth to the right and left, to try to represent the engine speed, even if the actual engine speed isn't appreciably changing.

Fuel gauges have long been damped. Maybe these digital tachometer gauges should be damped a little bit, too, to try to design out these types of concerns. You'd want it responsive enough to show actual (and rapid) changes in engine speed (such as during acceleration), but dulled enough not to appear twitchy.

 

[katander88]

I have a new-to-me 2022 Pilot that has the exact same issue with two of the tires. I only have 20k miles in it. They happen to be in the back now because we just had them rotated at our dealer oil change. And, the other two do not show the chunking. Today, one of the tires went flat after I hit a bump in the road. We thought it might have been a cut from a piece of metal, but now we wonder if the belts are coming apart like in the recall. BTW, there is also now (2025) a recall on a couple other Continental tires because of over curing, as well. I think it’s a bigger problem than they are letting on.

 

[21EXL]

I have a new-to-me 2022 Pilot that has the exact same issue with two of the tires. I only have 20k miles in it. They happen to be in the back now because we just had them rotated at our dealer oil change. And, the other two do not show the chunking. Today, one of the tires went flat after I hit a bump in the road. We thought it might have been a cut from a piece of metal, but now we wonder if the belts are coming apart like in the recall. BTW, there is also now (2025) a recall on a couple other Continental tires because of over curing, as well. I think it’s a bigger problem than they are letting on.

What trim is your Pilot? Mine still has the factory Bridgestone (edit) tires at ~43K. They're wearing just fine.

What are the specifics of the recall?

 

[xGS]

Mine still has the factory BF Goodrich tires at ~43K. They're wearing just fine.

According to TireRack, factory tires on a 2021 Pilot EX-L were the Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS.
Don't recall any Pilot ever having BF Goodrich tires as the factory fitment.

 

[21EXL]

According to TireRack, factory tires on a 2021 Pilot EX-L were the Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS.
Don't recall any Pilot ever having BF Goodrich tires as the factory fitment.

Oops, yep they are Bridgestone. That tells you what I think of their tires...can't even remember what's on there.

 

[katander88]

Mine is a 2022 SE with the Continental tires on it.

We took it to Discount Tire yesterday to have 2 new tires installed and chose matching Continentals which had to be ordered. After researching yesterday and finding all of the recalls and problems with them, we called Discount back today and told them to put on Michelins instead.

I also called the Continental New Car Tire Warranty department and opened a claim (1-800-847-3349). They talked to the Discount representative to get a verbal confirmation of their inspection of the tire chunking. They are offering us about $220 toward 2 new tires of our choice. We are keeping the existing 2 Continentals on the car for a while longer, as they do not show enough evidence of chunking yet. If they develop the same problem, we will open a claim for them as well.

The first recall I found was for the same Continental Cross Contact tires 245/50/20 for the 2021 Pilots. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCSB-21V115-1135.pdf

Then I found that there have been further tire recalls in 2024 and 25. This makes me think that the problems they had have not been resolved.

 

[21EXL]

Mine is a 2022 SE with the Continental tires on it.

We took it to Discount Tire yesterday to have 2 new tires installed and chose matching Continentals which had to be ordered. After researching yesterday and finding all of the recalls and problems with them, we called Discount back today and told them to put on Michelins instead.

I also called the Continental New Car Tire Warranty department and opened a claim (1-800-847-3349). They talked to the Discount representative to get a verbal confirmation of their inspection of the tire chunking. They are offering us about $220 toward 2 new tires of our choice. We are keeping the existing 2 Continentals on the car for a while longer, as they do not show enough evidence of chunking yet. If they develop the same problem, we will open a claim for them as well.

The first recall I found was for the same Continental Cross Contact tires 245/50/20 for the 2021 Pilots. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCSB-21V115-1135.pdf

Then I found that there have been further tire recalls in 2024 and 25. This makes me think that the problems they had have not been resolved.

My wife's 23 Passport Elite had Continental CrossContact LX Sport tires on it. Horrible tires, but not part of the recall. Unusually worn at only ~21K miles. Last year we had to replace one under warranty because a bubble formed on the sidewall. Replaced them with Cooper ProControls.