Mine is a 2022 SE with the Continental tires on it.

We took it to Discount Tire yesterday to have 2 new tires installed and chose matching Continentals which had to be ordered. After researching yesterday and finding all of the recalls and problems with them, we called Discount back today and told them to put on Michelins instead.

I also called the Continental New Car Tire Warranty department and opened a claim (1-800-847-3349). They talked to the Discount representative to get a verbal confirmation of their inspection of the tire chunking. They are offering us about $220 toward 2 new tires of our choice. We are keeping the existing 2 Continentals on the car for a while longer, as they do not show enough evidence of chunking yet. If they develop the same problem, we will open a claim for them as well.

The first recall I found was for the same Continental Cross Contact tires 245/50/20 for the 2021 Pilots. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RCSB-21V115-1135.pdf

Then I found that there have been further tire recalls in 2024 and 25. This makes me think that the problems they had have not been resolved.

 

My wife's 23 Passport Elite had Continental CrossContact LX Sport tires on it. Horrible tires, but not part of the recall. Unusually worn at only ~21K miles. Last year we had to replace one under warranty because a bubble formed on the sidewall. Replaced them with Cooper ProControls.

 

I have a new-to-me 2022 Pilot that has the exact same issue with two of the tires. I only have 20k miles in it. They happen to be in the back now because we just had them rotated at our dealer oil change. And, the other two do not show the chunking. Today, one of the tires went flat after I hit a bump in the road. We thought it might have been a cut from a piece of metal, but now we wonder if the belts are coming apart like in the recall. BTW, there is also now (2025) a recall on a couple other Continental tires because of over curing, as well. I think it’s a bigger problem than they are letting on.

 

What trim is your Pilot? Mine still has the factory Bridgestone (edit) tires at ~43K. They're wearing just fine.

What are the specifics of the recall?

 

The digital tachometer gauges are probably pretty difficult to "get right" from a programming and display perspective. The screen resolution is relatively coarse, meaning you see the movement when an animation shifts from one column of pixels to the next.

So then how precise do you make it? If the difference between each thousand RPM intervals is, say, 25 pixels, then each pixel represents 40 RPM. I can certainly see how the engine speed would vary by that much during the normal course of cruising, due to actual engine speed changes from very slight changes in TCC lockup, and due to small variances in the measurement of the engine speed. A 100 RPM swing might be two pixels...or it might be JUST on the border between one column of pixels and the next, so you get this hysteresis thing going on where it's trying to draw it as best as it can, moving the column back and forth to the right and left, to try to represent the engine speed, even if the actual engine speed isn't appreciably changing.

Fuel gauges have long been damped. Maybe these digital tachometer gauges should be damped a little bit, too, to try to design out these types of concerns. You'd want it responsive enough to show actual (and rapid) changes in engine speed (such as during acceleration), but dulled enough not to appear twitchy.

 

Agreed, nobody I saw who looked at ours said it was within the realm of normal. We also still don't know what it was/is.

We're on these new tires now and after about 3k miles they look fine, but I'd say that's too early to tell. The handling of the vehicle is greatly improved , the constant steering correction and feeling of shuflfling.

Time will tell though. That wear on the last ones started slow, but once it started it worsened really fast.

I stopped thinking about it for now. And as for the shaking RPM, slippage and kind strange transmission (it also started kind of light whining when driving in the hot weather this summer). I turned my RPM gauge off! Solved that problem.

Ultimately we like the vehicle a lot and the cost to trade in and swap to something else was putting out $16k...which didn't make sense. So we're just driving it. Ignoring it's quirks, and I'll watch the tires over the next few years as they set into their wear. Even if it ends up needing a bunch of work, well it'd still likely be the less expensive route...maybe.

 

I live in AZ, I had the same issue with the same continental's, 2021 pilot...the first set lasted about 4k and they were pealing off the same way. After 3 hours at the dealership, they replaced them for free...out of that new set, 3 out of 4 tires started pealing off after 10k...I got a wheel and tire warranty which they only agreed to replace 2 tires instead of all 4...or at least the 3 badly damaged. Their response was "they will ask questions if we replace all 4". I'm like who's they? And I don't care because I bought a warranty that they specifically told me was gonna cover that weird wear of a tire. Dealership tried to say it was gravel roads...the heat from AZ...I looked around at like 20 cars waiting to be serviced and asked them if they see that wear on any of the tires out there. And 3 out of 4 tires wearing like that? It can't be the terrain lol.

 

That's not normal CC behavior. It's way to consistent of a flutter. And it happens with cruise control or without. Unless Honda has a unique CC system unlike all other one's I've driven over the decades? I just knew if I used my foot somone would say my foot had a tremor

Either way, sounds like there's a reason they have the option to turn of the RPM display. That may be the move.

I'm not loosing sleep over any of this at this point. Curious is all. We're just gonna drive it and see what happens. Maybe this will all be fine and none of this will amount to anything.

 

These digital RPM needles are hyper sensitive. I had a 2017 CR-V and I swear I remember it doing this.

 

The fluttering makes it feel as if some type of micro slippage is happening. I honestly sort of remember my Passport doing this and me not worrying about it. But I can’t recall for sure.

 

Out of curiosity, I drove around town here in S mode (Sport mode) today for 20min. Lots of 25-35mp stop and go. I've literally never used S mode before, so was just curious hos it shifted and performed in it. I wasn't driving sporty, just usual driving in that mode.

It was terrible! And interestingly the RPM fluttering was even more prevalent in S mode. Fluttered around while cruising at 30 and even seemed like the RPM shaking as it wound down after letting off the throttle, like not one shake, but as the tack dropped it like had a slight rattle as it went dropped down.

I was surprised. I was expecting it to be smoother if you all say this is likely VCM stuff.

 

Get a SVCM or VCMTuner II and install it. That will stop the RPM fluttering and prolong the life of the torque converter. Dealer will NOT install but it's pretty easy. I have the VCMTuner II and have no issues.

 

Thanks for the tip. I've no business making modifications to a vehicle like that, even if it's dead simple.

I let the mechanics do the mechanic'ing.

 

@gmride have you installed a VCM disable device? From the video shots, it looks like that was climbing a slight grade where it wouldn't be in 3-cylinder operation, but this looks similar to the fluctuations while in 3-cylinder mode. Except it looks like it probably should have been in 6-cylinder mode.

(to be clear, 3-cylinder operation will slip the torque converter slightly to where the RPM will flutter a little bit...and it will jump and then fall by about 300 rpm or so during transitions between 3- and 6-cylinder modes...if you have not disabled VCM, it's possible that what you're seeing is the VCM operation)

 

IDK there may have been a very slight incline. Seemed pretty flat to me - but there probably aren't many perfectly flat roads around here.. The RPM does it on what seems flat, basically. Or slight grades. Not going up hills or 75mph or steep downhill where it's off the throttle.

In the land of 55mp highways here, it basically does it 1/2+ the time I'm on the highway.

Nope, nothing aftermarket installed one this car. I don't mess with that stuff.

If that RPM movement is normal operating behavior, well, I'm surprised I guess. Seems weird to me, shaking like that.

 

@STMech Well, 9 speed, but I get the drift!

That fluttering has been happening since, gosh, probably before the car even hit 20k miles.

So I guess what this all comes down to is if there something that could cause that torque convertor to start slipping like that and also be the cause of that one tire location (driver side front) to wear so extremely?

I know the usual issue of the Torque convertor getting wanky is the VCM (I beleive usually after more mileage and the 6 speed), but for the sake of this conversation, what if something else caused it.

 

If this was a 6 speed, I would say torque converter lockup clutch. And on a 10 speed, I would still say torque converter lockup clutch.

 

I'm back, missed you all too much!

For the curious I took a video today of the RPM fluttering on a highway drive. Flat road. Using cruise control (happens regardless). Does this on flats all of the time and can do strange weird jumps and surges if the grade goes down a bit (not steep). It goes away once there's a climb or more gas (say 2000rpm +)

Camera shaking makes it a bit wobbly to watch but it's clear towards the end.

And, FWIW, 2hrs on the highway today, the handling stell felt off to me. Tracked straighter on the new tires, but still noticed a wishy washy and shuffly feel in the corners. Obvious grain of salt with any handling observations as they're impossible to explain or verify

 

I'm back, missed you all too much!

For the curious I took a video today of the RPM fluttering on a highway drive. Flat road. Using cruise control (happens regardless). Does this on flats all of the time and can do strange weird jumps and surges if the grade goes down a bit (not steep). It goes away once there's a climb or more gas (say 2000rpm +)

Camera shaking makes it a bit wobbly to watch but it's clear towards the end.

Here's a link to a mov file.

It's 420P so I suggest right clicking and DLing so you can watch it larger outside of the browser

And, FWIW, 2hrs on the highway today, the handling stell felt off to me. Tracked straighter on the new tires, but still noticed a wishy washy and shuffly feel in the corners. Obvious grain of salt with any handling observations as they're impossible to explain or verify

In addition to VCM effects, some of the RPM fluctuations are due to CC varying the throttle to control speed. Looks pretty normal under CC.

 

Great info. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Signing off here!

If anything becomes more clear about this in the next 1000 or 8000 miles, I'll try to update this. What happens to these new tires will be the tell.

 

Yes, that area looks mostly normal. That black sheetmetal cover just to the right of that bolt (it's a bolt, not a sump plug) covers the torque converter area and will be the first signs of a rear main seal leak if that ever develops in the future. Dark, dry, "grime" like that is pretty typical for underneath here.

The plug with the hex drive facing directly downwards, near the transaxle's split seam, is the drain plug for the transaxle.

Incidentally, your picture there does capture the transfer case. It's the "appendage" to the left of the circled bolt in your picture. The plug with the square drive facing the camera, pointing towards the front of the vehicle, is the fill/check plug. The plug with the square drive facing straight down, over near the left side of the case, is the drain plug. You should see some signs of disturbance there if they changed the transfer case fluid (such as the white paint marks applied at the factory now not lining up exactly).

 

Cheers everyone. This iinfo is all really interesting

@sequoiasoon Thanks for the tips. I was interested to see that the dealer had put 39psi (cold) in the tires. so they're clearly not married to the 35 on the door jam either.

@hokiefyd Super interesting info on the transmission reset. Thanks. for that info So unless they did the ATF/diffy fluid without saying anything (doubtful) then never mind about my long shot differential theory.

Weird all around. I honestly still think it's not the tires and there's something wrong or malfunctioning with the drivetrain. I hope note. But time will tell!

Side note: When I look under the vehicle, everything is clean except this one plug and corresponding area, can anyone tell me what it is, or is it nothing? Just out of curiosity. If I touch that dark area around that circkle bolt it's not even really oily...it's almost like dry burnt residue. Stand out when looking under there. Normal?

 

The HGO-1 fluid, if I'm reading right, is transfer case fluid, so that's what was changed - not the actual front differential (and ATF) fluid.

Yes, the HGO-1 (Honda Gear Oil-1) is Honda's proprietary version of gear oil for the transfer case. It's basically a typical gear oil, in 75W-85 or 80W-90 or similar.

My understanding of what a transfer case does is move power between the front and rear wheels of the car. Right? How would a fluid change there could make the cars entire driveline/tranny feel so much better? (Let alone have anything to do with tire wear.)

Yes -- in this case, the transfer case houses a simple 90-degree gearset which transfers lateral shaft power (output of the transaxle, parallel to the front axle shafts) to longitudinal shaft power (the driveshaft that runs to the rear drive unit). There are no clutches in this transfer case. The driveshaft is always coupled to the transaxle and spins commensurate with transaxle output speed. The clutching for the rear drive happens entirely in the rear drive unit. I would not expect exchange of this fluid to have a large impact on how your car operates.

They might have cleared all the learned data in your transaxle to force it to re-learn how to live and operate properly. You can do the same thing yourself at home...put it on ignition-on/engine-off mode (two presses of the start button without the brake), and hold the gas pedal to the floor. After about 10-15 seconds, the orange check engine light will go out, telling you the transaxle data has been erased. This is often effective at cleaning up shifting and other operations as it forces any learned and baseline data out and makes the transaxle relearn all those parameters. This can often have a large (and positive) impact on how the car shifts and drives.

I still suspect something was wrong with your original tires (with the rubber flaking off). Were there internal problems with belts that caused odd behavior? Maybe. You'd think that'd have also presented itself as a tire balance problem or uniformity that'd have been more apparent. But this entire situation has been a strange one, indeed.

In any case, I'm happy to hear that it's been made a lot better...somehow!

 

@gmride - you might want to get a tread depth gauge if you don't have one. The digital is nice for getting crazy accurate. I have older versions of the stick ones like this (not colored). I have used my digital caliper just because. Tire depth gauge pack. This JACO has the increments between 1/32" Jaco depth gauge. Just make sure you are NOT on one of the wear bars when you check.

I'm pretty OCD on my tires. I check pressure just about weekly, normally Sunday mornings before sun even has a chance to warm anything up oddly (I don't have garage to park in). My vehicles seem to get best even flat wear with about 2psi more than door sticker. YMMV and others have their own preference and reason that can debate forever. Pick what works for you. I use the depth gauge at least monthly and measure across full tread width, about 4 spots to make sure it's even. It also lets me know if I need to adjust air pressure up or down depending on vehicle and tires.

This might help you also check the wear besides just at dealer.

Here are pictures of the transfer assembly fill and drain plugs. It only uses .45qt of the HGO-1. Front transfer HGO-1

Thanks for all the updates. Looking back at my thread it's probably time for me to use the other 1/2 qt I have in garage. .

 

Edit: double post!

On HG0-1 "front differential" fluid

 

I don't have any tech info on the front differential for an AWD config, and assume it to be an open diff--anyone know differently?

Spitballing.....there could be manufacturing defects (gear setup, tooth geometry...) that might cause one axle to have more friction than the other, which could cause slightly unequal torque applied from one wheel to another, thus causing tire scrub. The severity of the scrub (or chatter) might vary depending on if the wheels are straight ahead or if in a turn. I can also conceive that fresh diff fluid would reduce that diff friction and reduce the torque difference.

 

So caveat that I'm out of my depth at this point and probably have been since square one.

The HGO-1 fluid, if I'm reading right, is transfer case fluid, so that's what was changed - not the actual front differential (and ATF) fluid.

My understanding of what a transfer case does is move power between the front and rear wheels of the car. Right? How would a fluid change there could make the cars entire driveline/tranny feel so much better? (Let alone have anything to do with tire wear.)

Unless there really is a multiple of things happening here between the tires and the driveline and they're not connected. Or something else happened at the shop that wasn't noted to me (software/firmware update etc)

I'm not complaining aboutt he improvements! Just makes me feel a bit nuts.

 

I thought I was going to give up on this as life is too short. But this is interesting.

So we get our rig back and new tires obviously feel nice, but they also had done a front diffy fluid change while the vehicle was in. And here's the interesting bit: the smoothness + shifting ,are SO much better. The RPM still fluttera a bit at 2k rpm, but way less and not as severely. It even seems to sound quieter.

All from a fluid change???

(It also tracks/steers better which I presume is the tires, but I've no idea at this point...)

I wonder if it is our front differential that's faulty/failing?

I don't know anything about them, but when I googled it, tire wear and poor handling where some of the signs

 

...they also had done a front diffy fluid change while the vehicle was in...

Is your invoice clear on exactly which fluid they replaced?

These vehicles have three different driveline fluid sumps: transaxle, transfer case, and rear drive unit. They don't have a separate fluid sump for the front differential (which is internal to the transaxle). For your vehicle (with the ZF 9-speed), a transaxle fluid change would be 4 quarts of Honda ATF-Type 3.1; this is the fluid that lubricates your front differential.

The transfer case is mounted to the side of the transaxle and has a separate (and much smaller) fluid sump. It's just a 90-degree hypoid gearset (no clutches) that spins at transaxle output speed, and it takes a quart or so of 80W-90 gear oil.

The rear drive unit has a traditional differential, but the outputs of that differential are clutched, so the system can engage either left or right half shaft anywhere from 0% (full slip, no torque transfer) to 100% (no slip, full torque transfer). The programming can get fancy, but the unit is relatively simple mechanically.

Maybe they replaced more than one fluid under there! I'm glad to hear it feels better on new tires. From what you recall, is it feeling as good as that loaner Ridgeline felt? What tires are they (just curious)?

 

It is disappointing that Honda is telling the service manager that they will not consider the technician's diagnosis on the torque converter without a code. I guess we've gotten to the point where we just read the computer and follow instructions, huh?

The mild hybrid system that Toyota is putting in just about everything they build now does have increasing interest to me. Especially the eCVT, which...I just learned the other day...isn't a CVT at all. I never actually knew that and it seems that those hybrid/eCVT drivetrains have evolved to be extremely reliable.

We've had a few Toyotas before...a 2007 Corolla and a 2011 Camry. I liked 'em both...neither was perfect, but they were both good cars. Interestingly enough (related to this thread), the Camry had an alignment issue right from the factory that they didn't fix during the pre-delivery inspection (we bought it new), but the dealer did fix it soon after. 2011 was early days for their then-new U660E 6-speed automatic and it had some shift-flare issues that never did get resolved (no software updates) before I traded the car on a CR-V. But that 2AR-FE engine in the Camry was a really smooth engine...and very lively for a 4-cylinder. I really liked that powertrain.

We did look at Highlanders when we bought our Pilot, but they're smaller on the inside, and especially in the 3rd row area, and not by a trivial amount. The new Grand Highlander or whatever it's called probably improves that. And, frankly, much of our confidence in the Pilot was the rock-solid drivetrains in our two older cars ('05 MDX and '09 Ridgeline), and my parent's 2014 MDX...all with J35 engines. The issues Honda's had with some of the J35s in the 3rd generation Pilot (injectors, rod bearings, etc.) kind of have me thinking, "well, sheesh, maybe it wasn't such a sure thing after all."

Oh well...you rolls your dice and you takes your chances, right?

 

We loved the interior of the pilot,. and when we bought it in 2021 it was in our budget - a lot of car for the money so to speak. It was during peak covid craziness and all the chip shortage stuff. There were only a few Toyotas available and they were top of the line trim and out of our budget.

But yeah, the disconnect between the dealer and Honda has been surprising. I didn't realize they were so absolutely separate. Honda had no interest in stepping in to support the dealer. If anything I feel like the dealer has just been doing their best to keep us around.

 

Update: just got off the phone with the dealer and they have no clue. Both the manager and the shop's foreman have driven the rig multiple times and agree it doesn't drive/handle right, and they agree the torque convertor is slipping.

So the plan for the handling + tire wear issues is putting new set of tires on it and then to do an alignment and wear check in 1000 miles, and then another 1000 miles after that.

As far as the torque converter: they can't replace it under warranty until it actually throws an error code. It was remarkable the service manager agreed it was not working right but that it should fail before the 50k mile power-train warranty is up! Geez, glad to know that!

When I asked what Honda had said about all of this, they said we must be driving it hard and chewing up the tires on gravel or cornering too hard or etc. And the torque convertor isn't broken unless the computer says it's broken.

Kinda wild. I told the service manager after the new tires and and two more checks in the shop if it's still doing it we'd start to pivot to talk about a trade in. He said he'd totally understand that.

Edit: oh yeah, they did agree, it's not the PSI.

 

Update: just got off the phone with the dealer and they have no clue. Both the manager and the shop's foreman have driven the rig multiple times and agree it doesn't drive/handle right, and they agree the torque convertor is slipping.

So the plan for the handling + tire wear issues is putting new set of tires on it and then to do an alignment and wear check in 1000 miles, and then another 1000 miles after that.

As far as the torque converter: they can't replace it under warranty until it actually throws an error code.

When I asked what Honda had said, they said we must be driving it hard and chewing up the tires on gravel or cornering too hard or etc. And the torque convertor isn't broken unless the computer says it's broken.

Kinda wild. I told the service manager after the new tires and and two more checks in the shop if it's still doing it we'd start to pivot to talk about a trade in. He said he'd totally understand that.

And… you’re still going to get a Honda after that? It’s fine that the car has issue. The treatment from the dealer and corporate is not okay at all. Sounds like a thing of nightmares. “We agree it handles like shit and slips. And we agree the tires are getting chewed up in an unreasonable way. You must be driving it hard”

 

This rig is still at the dealer for this, going into week 3. We'd to swap the loaner for this weekend, ridgeline for a CRV, for the rain. My wife and I laughed that a silver lining to our pilot's time in the shop over this past three years is that we've had a chance to drive a: 22 accord, a 22 civic, a 23 CRV, a 23 pilot, a 23 ridgeline and now a 24 CRV. Pretty much done an extended test drive of the entire fleet!

Anyway, I believe the dealer is waiting to hear what to troubleshoot from Honda at this point. I will give them credit for agreeing something is wrong and taking it on. It's not necessarily their problem at this point. They could have just sold us a fluid change and told us to call Honda. A good lesson in how to keep a customer.

Still really hoping it can be spotted and fixed.