As another option, I've used these plugs. ECS Tuning generally caters to German cars. Lifeguard9 is also $28/L and free shipping. All in a change is $120+tax.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-zf-parts/m18-transmission-fill-plug/24117552349~zf/

 

2017 Pilot with ZF9 and 100k miles with a dead transmission, stuck in gear. Dealer said $7k for a new one. Made a goodwill claim with Honda who came back and said they would replace it for $1k so had it replaced. Still has an occasional lazy shift at low speed but overall the newer manufactured one is much better.

 

Was there any warning signs?
Did you change the fluid?

 

The numbers on the SDSs for Honda ATF 3.1 and ZF LifeguardFluid 9 are nearly identical. Some of them are different for Mopar 8&9 speed ATF.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are not the same since the ZF transmissions used by Honda are built by ZF. The ZF transmissions used by Stellantis are built by Stellantis under license from ZF.

 

The numbers on the SDSs for Honda ATF 3.1 and ZF LifeguardFluid 9 are nearly identical. Some of them are different for Mopar 8&9 speed ATF.

I wouldn't be surprised if they are not the same since the ZF transmissions used by Honda are built by ZF. The ZF transmissions used by Stellantis are built by Stellantis under license from ZF.

This doesn't mean anything. It could be cheaper to build in house. Or they are nervous about supply chain. Could be lots of reasons why they might want to build in house.

 

Chrysler builds a version of the ZF 9HP48 called the 948TE. There are some mechanical differences between the two, the ZF-produced 9HP48 and the Chrysler-produced (under license) 948TE, some of which can be found here: https://atsgmembers.com/memarea/bulletins/bulletins/17/17-24.pdf.

I do not know if the dipstick available for the Chrysler applications would work in a ZF 9HP48 (such as what Honda puts in its cars).

 

I have a transmission whine in my 2016 Touring's ZF9 (90,000 miles). I can't remember when I first noticed it but it's been several thousand miles ago. However, I never could replicate it on demand so I never took it to the dealership. I read a post in this thread by HazMatt who also had a whine. He mentioned the 4th to 5th shift. So with the radio off while driving in D I tried setting my cruise control at 40mph and used the paddle shifter to drop to 4th gear and waited for it to shift to 5th and bingo! I did it over and over and same thing, a whining noise as it shifted to 5th. Can others try this and let me know if this is normal? I don't know why this strange whining noise shows up only on the shift to 5th gear. Is it something to be worried about?

 

...used the paddle shifter to drop to 4th gear and waited for it to shift to 5th and bingo! I did it over and over and same thing, a whining noise as it shifted to 5th. ... Is it something to be worried about?

I think most have attributed this noise on the 4-5 upshift to the disengagement of one of the dog clutches in the transmission. The same mechanics happen on the 7-8 shift as well, though road and/or wind noise may be increased enough that you don't hear it there. I understand this noise is often louder and easier to hear if you have a transmission cooler.

In any case, it seems to be louder in some transmissions than others, but I don't think it's considered unusual or harmful.

 

Hello all,

Bought my brand new 2017 Pilot Touring in 2018. Had problems from the start. While turning, I would hear clicking noise from the engine bay. After several trips to the dealer trying to replicate the issue, they ended up replacing the engine mounts. The second problem was the Auto restart not working properly. Now at 57000 mile I'm noticing hesitation when shifting into 3rd, sometimes hard shifting into 3rd or reverse. Also getting up to 71 mi/hr, it won't shift until I let off the gas peddle a bit.
I have done a lot of research and don't seem to be the only one with transmission problems. What do we have to do to get Honda to address its transmission issues? How, who, where do we get a petition started?

 

A 2017 bought in 2018, now with 57k. Has the ATF ever been drained and filled?

 

More questions, if I may...
Does it have to be done by a Honda dealer or will a cert. mechanic shop be good enough?
How soon after the first fill does do I repeat, and how many?

Much appreciate your advice

 

Anyone can do it. I’d prove the purchase of the fluid. I’d also register on the Honda owners website. There you can enter the VIN and enter any work/service that has been done outside the dealership. Know that this ZF transmission is not a simple drain and fill. Instructions are in this attachment (below).

No rule as to how soon to repeat. It is in your best interest to repeat if you see an improvement and “IF” you plan to keep this vehicle beyond the warranty. After the 2nd drain and fill, I’d plan on doing one every 30k miles to prevent this from happening again.

 

My auto idle stop didn't work and it was due to an old battery. Works like a champ now.

 

2021 EX-L ~35K miles.

Had a strange issue pop up this past weekend. I was traveling down the highway, oh around 65-70 mph. There was a slower car in front of me, so I nailed the pedal to make the pass and when I let off afterwards, the transmission didn't upshift back into high gear. It stayed in whatever gear it downshifted into causing the RPM's to hang high for a good 30 seconds before it upshifted again.

Other than that the transmission shifts great. Only happened this one time.....hopefully doesn't happen again.

I must say that I've only had my Pilot for about a month and possible the trans hasn't "learned" my driving style (bit of a lead foot). 😁

 

Could it be in S rather than D?

 

I just dropped my ‘16 Elite with 55K miles off at the Honda dealer. This past week, I was turning onto my street and accelerating, and my car seemed to almost stop, RPM dial went high, and the gear showed “D1”. I was not using sport mode, and have never seen it say anything other than D. I pulled over and restarted the car to turn into my driveway.

I’ve had a lot of jerky upshift moments over the past few years, and a few where my car doesn’t accelerate but the RPM dial goes crazy. I let off the accelerator to get it back down, and then I can accelerate and it shifts fine. This is all happening much more often, nearly every drive now.

Often doesn’t restart after auto stop, even though I had the software update. I disable it every single time, usually. Today they said there’s a second software update they can do for that problem.

Am I in for a transmission failure at some point? It’s making me very nervous.

 

Has the transmission fluid ever been changed? Might be a good idea if it hasn't.

 

Having had my 21 Pilot for 3 months now, I figured I'd give my opinion on the ZF9.

Overall a very smooth shifting transmission, no real issues to speak of. Been happy with the performance. Same transmission in my wife's 23 Passport, and she hasn't voiced any concerns.

Only complaints I have really is the delay it takes for the gears to engage when you press the buttons and when slowing down to make turns or yielding (not coming to a complete stop), the transmission is a bit slow dropping into a lower gear to maintain smooth acceleration. I find myself pressing further down on the accelerator so the transmission will downshift. Not really a big deal IMHO. I did do the reset procedure and it seems to have helped a bit.


MY LAST HONDA! 🤣🤣🤣 j/k

 

We have almost 35k miles on our 2022 Elite with this transmission and I generally like it. The delay from P-to-D is annoying, but little more than that for us. I do often drive in manual mode to shift it myself, and it works well there. Manual mode also lowers the downshift points as you decelerate (basically, it waits to downshift until it absolutely has to to avoid stalling the engine), which smooths out the engine braking feel as you decelerate.

In normal driving, in D mode, it's a VERY smooth-shifting transmission. Especially upshifts during acceleration. Many times, it's near seamless.

My biggest complaint about it, and I don't know if this is in the transmission design or the engine programming, is the impulse you feel in the transition between on and off throttle. It feels like the transition between near-idle power fuel flow and off-throttle fuel cut (no fuel), but that transition is usually pretty abrupt, no matter how smoothly you feather the throttle. This seems to be slightly better in ECON mode, and it's generally better when VCM is engaged vs. when it's disengaged, but it's a bit of an abrupt transition nonetheless, unbecoming for a car as nice as these are.

None of our other Hondas behave that way, which has me suspecting the transmission itself. I understand owners of Odysseys also complain of this. @21EXL, do you feel this abrupt transition in your '21 Pilot and '23 Passport as well?

 

@21EXL, do you feel this abrupt transition in your '21 Pilot and '23 Passport as well?

Hmmm, not sure really. What do feel is a bit of pulsation, but I'm attributing that to the VCM engaging-disengaging. I haven't installed a VCM disabler just yet. S-VCM is on my list.

 

Update on using Valvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic ATF in the ZF 9-Speed. No problems to report and past 100k miles.

 

I recently purchased a 2018 Touring that, according to CarFax, had its transmission replaced at a nearby dealership on May 30, 2023 at 86k miles. If I wanted to know if the vehicle received the TSB software updates or a rebuilt 2016 transmission/refreshed 2019 transmission during that service, would they have that information in their records for the VIN? Is there any other way to discover that information?

The replaced transmission only has 18k miles on it and I can't point out a single problem with it, but I would love to know what to expect down the road if I could get that information from the dealer or Honda.

 

Yes, your local Honda dealership can run the VIN and provide the info you're looking for.

 

This was brought up in another post, but I am curious if anyone here has the answer.

The attached pdf is the ATF replacement procedure for the ZF9. On page two it says that the Automatic Transmission Fluid Capacity is "6.7-7.1 US qt at overhaul" and "7.5-7.9 US qt at overhaul for AWD." The user in the other post drained his warranty replaced ZF9 for the first time and had something like 6 or 7 quarts come out. I have a replaced ZF9 with 18k on it and am expecting to find the same thing when I dump it for the first time.

Does anyone have an idea of how long that initial overhaul fill is supposed to stay in there? Is it something to just break in the transmission or is it supposed to stay in there until the first fluid change? Considering it is double the 3.5 quart change, I am genuinely curious if anyone has any insight on this.

 

Those capacities are for the complete filling of the transmission including the torque convertor. When you do just a drain and fill you are only removing the fluid in the transmission section itself and not the torque convertor. Some vehicles used to come with a drain plug on the torque convertor so you could drain that section also but not the 3rd Generation Pilots or any other similar lines that I am aware of. Here is what the service manual says for the drain and fill also, not just what you posted for the overhaul and overhaul for AWD. You will not be able to remove the torque convertor fluid unless you do a "flush" which would circulate the fluid and replace it while removing the old fluid or other ways which are not practical. Expect 3.5 to 4.0 quarts

Automatic Transmission Fluid Capacity:
3.3 L (3.5 US qt) at change
6.3-6.7 L (6.7-7.1 US qt) at overhaul
7.1-7.5 L (7.5-7.9 US qt) at overhaul for AWD

 

OK, so the posts have my attention. I've been looking at 2014/15 for a while now. Started looking at the 2021s because they have a 4/5 reliability rating on Consumer Reports. Trying to do my due diligence and am surfing this site. This thread has some great info from some dedicated Pilot owners - thank you.
@Nail Grease - you've given me and others some good advice. Are these trannys going to last? I'm looking at a 2021 with 64k that hasn't had a drain&fill (at least not on the Carfax). Is there any reason to look at a used 16-22 if the tranny hasn't been maintained by 30-40k? I'd like to get a vehicle that will last for 300k if I maintain it.

 

Slept on the posts and the various youtube vids of Pilot owners discussing their 3rd gens. Many describe a "shudder" once the transmission fluid begins to break down. One claimed to have done at least 10 drain and fills for a 100k 2019 Pilot. (What I Learned After 100k Miles Owning a Honda Pilot ) A Honda mechanic out of NY recommends changing the 9 speed transmissions (T) at 30K and the 6 speed at 15k (oil changes at 3k) to keep the systems long term ((264) Honda and Acura detailed maintenance schedule - YouTube ). A post in this thread likened the newer Pilots to the BMW that are very sensitive to maintenance. Apparently, BMW now requires their leased cars to do all of the maintenance. Is this so they can have a viable certified program? By that, I mean that if the leasers are allowed to not do the maintenance to make the BMW a viable long-term vehicle then they won't. There isn't an incentive to spend the money on a car that you won't keep past when the lack of maintenance becomes a problem.
Has the Pilot become a BMW for this purpose?
I haven't found too many Carfaxes that list the kind of maintenance that seems to be needed to make a 30-130k used Pilot viable long-term if the early maintenance is so demanding.

 

Can anyone please let me know when after you did a 1x drain/fill on the ZF9, did the shift quality improve? I just had mine done after two years (2022 Pilot) at 5800 miles and wow, it shifts so much better than the factory fill. Normally, esp. when cold, shifts at 25MPH in D mode, where I think it shifts from 4 to 5, would sometimes clunk, but now, not at all, it actually performs as well and as quietly/smoothly as my wifes RX 350. It's actually a pleasure to drive now, where before, every time I heard that clunk, and it was often as the speed limit where I live is 25MPH, I'm thinking when's it going to break, completely stressful every drive. Maybe the friction modifiers in the original factory fill wasn't dispersed properly, i.e., it wasn't shaken well like the bottle states, and I assume they don't have someone pouring bottles in, so whatever automated agitation process they used wasn't effective.

Edit: HG 3.1 ATF ABSOLUTELY STINKS! It smells like stale pungent body odor.

Side note, after trying whatever Honda uses as factory fill, Valvoline Advanced and Valvoline R&P, I finding Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20 "sounds" the best, whether it's a very cold day startup like 28F in the morning or in general, the engine just sounds more pleasant/smoother, can't quantify that all in any meaningful way whether good/bad/indifferent, but there seems to be no harshness to the engine sound like the others. I'll still use Valvoline R&P every so often to help keep it clean though. Too bad Valvoline would never license the "molecule" so PUP could add it in too or Valvoline doesn't have a GTL oil.

 

New member here. Bought a 2019 Pilot Elite with 99,610 miles on 2/12/24. Drove it until 100,435 miles and notice something weird with the trans. Have a buddy that works for a Honda dealership and pulled a P170B code for Dog Clutch A abnormal operation. The car came with a 90 day 4000 mile warranty that i purchased and to the selling dealership recommend Honda dealer today 2/28/25, i got a call and was told it needs a new transmission and that the warranty will cover the replacement.
From the Carfax this car was dealer serviced its whole life. I got really luck, if i hand purchased that warranty i would have been screwed, thank God i did my research before i bought it and bought the warranty just in case.

 

I bought my 2018 Touring in October 2024 with 104,005 miles on it. According to its maintenance history there is a 99% chance that it was a former lease since every service was done on time at the same dealership up until it was put up for sale again. According to the records the transmission was replaced at 85,918 miles. Prior to that I could only find one record of the transmission fluid being changed at 60,347 miles.

So, are our transmissions going up around the same time a coincidence, does the ZF9 have a propensity for going up as it nears 100k miles, or are more frequent fluid changes key? I am going to be strict about changing the fluid in mine at 30k and cross my fingers.

 

Well here's one for the team. Traded the 21 for a 25. Give me my ZF9 back!

Honestly give me 7 or 8 speeds. 9 is too much, 10 is meh. May be good for MPG, but I prefer less gears.

 

Question for a 2022 pilot owner, I am planning to change my transmission fluid soon and wanted to see where the dip stick is. I know where the fill spot is for it but I do not see the dip stick anywhere. I took the air exchange and the plastic cover over the radiator off and I still do not find it. Can anyone tell me where it’s supposed to be? I have watched several YouTube videos and I am still not finding it. Any help is appreciated. Thank you.

 

There isn't a dipstick.

Follow this procedure:

Click on the vid which will take you to YT.

 

The ZF transmission does NOT have a dipstick.

 

I think we've established that the ZF9 does not have a dipstick. Not sure how many times that bears repeating.