Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner
1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone noticed that Honda dealerships have a lot of used late model Honda Pilots and new ones, but if you go to a toyota or cheverolet or ford dealership to look at a Suv, they sell them as fast as they get them. Around Winston/Greensboro NC i have noticed that if a 2012-15 model goes up for sale, they move within a day or two. Are the new Pilots that bad?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,243 Posts
I've been on this forum a year and a half and I believe the consensus would be that the 3rd generation Pilot is not exactly trouble free. If I were buying one, I'd make sure to get a Honda Care warranty, while keeping in mind that a timing belt water pump job will need to be done at 105k miles or 7 years, which ever comes first. Be diligent in doing the maintenance on time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
From what i saw it a lot of 2016-2020 used pilots, the local dealer closes to me had 30 of them last week and mileage was as low as 9k to as high as 70k, but most was around 25-35K, checked today and still 26 of them. Just not moving, as comparison locally Toyota dealer only has 2 used Highlanders. Been looking for a couple of months and was dead set on a used pilot, especially if i could find a good 2014-15 model but got a little side tracked doing some remoldeling on the house. Looks like i waited too long since used cars have gone crazy high around here. Hopefully they will not move and this will pass over and all the dealers jacking up prices will be stuck and prizes will drop a lot, hopefully.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
I think styling plays a role as well. The third generation, while not ugly, looks more like a minivan as compare to the second generation, which has classic clean, three box body, traditional SUV lines, and is very handsome, IMO, particularly if kept clean. Also, a significant drawback on the third gen is that it lacks both a height adjustable tailgate and a glass hatch that you can open. The lack of these key features, plus the dodgy rep the early 9 speeds had, courtesy of ZF, put a dent in sales. Finally I think the VCM rumors have also not helped the third gen. Just my .02.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
I think styling plays a role as well. The third generation, while not ugly, looks more like a minivan as compare to the second generation,
And that’s why my wife vetoed one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
1.
I think styling plays a role as well. The third generation, while not ugly, looks more like a minivan as compare to the second generation, which has classic clean, three box body, traditional SUV lines, and is very handsome, IMO, particularly if kept clean. Also, a significant drawback on the third gen is that it lacks both a height adjustable tailgate and a glass hatch that you can open. The lack of these key features, plus the dodgy rep the early 9 speeds had, courtesy of ZF, put a dent in sales. Finally I think the VCM rumors have also not helped the third gen. Just my .02.
Being fairly new to the Pilot (this is my first one), it's worth noting that many of the items on your list aren't things the average SUV buyer would know about or notice. Outside of this forum, nobody is longing for the "classic, clean, three-box body, traditional SUV lines", 2nd gen. I mean...c'mon.

Most vehicles don't have height adjustable tailgates. I didn't even know those were a thing until recently, and I'm not clear at all why they exist. And I haven't seen a glass hatch that opens since maybe 1990.

And nobody outside this forum knows what the heck a VCM is, rumor or otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
681 Posts
1.


Being fairly new to the Pilot (this is my first one), it's worth noting that many of the items on your list aren't things the average SUV buyer would know about or notice. Outside of this forum, nobody is longing for the "classic, clean, three-box body, traditional SUV lines", 2nd gen. I mean...c'mon.

Most vehicles don't have height adjustable tailgates. I didn't even know those were a thing until recently, and I'm not clear at all why they exist. And I haven't seen a glass hatch that opens since maybe 1990.

And nobody outside this forum knows what the heck a VCM is, rumor or otherwise.
I agree no one is longing for the 2nd gen looks… but somehow imho (and my wife’s) they got the looks worse with the 3rd gen, especially before the mild refresh.

The height adjustable tailgate is useful if your garage (especially the door) is fairly low and the tailgate could hit it. Additionally for shorter people having it stay lower can allow them the ability to reach the button to close it.

The glass opening separately is handy but not a dealbreaker. I personally like it and miss is (slightly) on my Audi.

VCM on the 2nd gen was bad enough that you know about it forum or not. I joined this forum before anyone had a way to disable it specifically with the hope that someone would have a solution. Eventually they did. It drives like shaking poo with it. Thankfully they improved that a lot of the 3rd gen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,006 Posts
Being fairly new to the Pilot (this is my first one), it's worth noting that many of the items on your list aren't things the average SUV buyer would know about or notice. Outside of this forum, nobody is longing for the "classic, clean, three-box body, traditional SUV lines", 2nd gen. I mean...c'mon.
I disagree... look at the smash sales success of the Telluride and the continued success of the 4Runner. People like an SUV that looks rugged even if it really isn't. I help a lot of friends and family while they are searching for vehicles, the most common vehicle is the 4Runner because it looks capable but not as extreme as a Wrangler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
979 Posts
Has anyone noticed that Honda dealerships have a lot of used late model Honda Pilots and new ones, but if you go to a toyota or cheverolet or ford dealership to look at a Suv, they sell them as fast as they get them. Around Winston/Greensboro NC i have noticed that if a 2012-15 model goes up for sale, they move within a day or two. Are the new Pilots that bad?
I think that you may be right. It seems like the popularity of the Pilot is declining in comparison to it's competition. For a quick snapshot, I looked up the sales figures by year on Wikipedia for the Pilot vs. the Toyota Highlander. In the early 2000's when both models were introduced, sales totals were similar. More recently, the Pilot's peak year was 2018 at about 159,000 with sales declining since then. The Highlander sales numbers for the past decade have grown faster than Honda's, and now are running 50,000 to 80,000 per year greater. That's quite a difference! The Pilot is still a popular SUV, but not nearly as much as the Highlander.

Does this mean that the Pilot is a bad choice? I will admit that had I known about how 3rd Gen VCM causes transmission problems, I would have probably looked harder at a Toyota instead of the 2018 Pilot that we purchased (used). Now that we are driving the 2018 with the S-VCM chip installed, we like the vehicle. But the yearly sales numbers don't lie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,243 Posts
I think that you may be right. It seems like the popularity of the Pilot is declining in comparison to it's competition. For a quick snapshot, I looked up the sales figures by year on Wikipedia for the Pilot vs. the Toyota Highlander. In the early 2000's when both models were introduced, sales totals were similar. More recently, the Pilot's peak year was 2018 at about 159,000 with sales declining since then. The Highlander sales numbers for the past decade have grown faster than Honda's, and now are running 50,000 to 80,000 per year greater. That's quite a difference! The Pilot is still a popular SUV, but not nearly as much as the Highlander.

Does this mean that the Pilot is a bad choice? I will admit that had I known about how 3rd Gen VCM causes transmission problems, I would have probably looked harder at a Toyota instead of the 2018 Pilot that we purchased (used). Now that we are driving the 2018 with the S-VCM chip installed, we like the vehicle. But the yearly sales numbers don't lie.
150797

I too would not have bought a 2017 to rebuild had I known about the 6-speed torque converter clutch lock issue aggravated by the VCM or how engine mounts could be an issue, or fuel injectors would eventually go bad and the change to direct injection that makes for a dirtier engine. I was already willing to do timing belt changes because of the great reliability record Honda had, but with Honda doubling down on the quest for better fuel economy numbers at my expense.., This DIYer will never buy a new model vehicle from Honda again.
If I was covered by a warranty, and had the mindset of trading the vehicle at or near 100k, Yes, I'd buy a Pilot. There is a lot to like. Especially with a set of High Performance tires installed. 😁👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jsome and aggrex

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
I disagree... look at the smash sales success of the Telluride and the continued success of the 4Runner. People like an SUV that looks rugged even if it really isn't. I help a lot of friends and family while they are searching for vehicles, the most common vehicle is the 4Runner because it looks capable but not as extreme as a Wrangler.
I hear you, but I think it comes down to the fact that it's nearing time for a design refresh. People tend toward newer and different, and lots of people don't want a 2021 model that's nearly indistinguishable from the 2016.

Honda has been taking design chances -- good ones, IMO -- with the latest gen Accord and on the newer Acuras. I hope they carry that design language through the rest of the product line, and maybe think about using some higher quality interior materials to compete favorably with other manufacturers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,006 Posts
I hear you, but I think it comes down to the fact that it's nearing time for a design refresh. People tend toward newer and different, and lots of people don't want a 2021 model that's nearly indistinguishable from the 2016.

Honda has been taking design chances -- good ones, IMO -- with the latest gen Accord and on the newer Acuras. I hope they carry that design language through the rest of the product line, and maybe think about using some higher quality interior materials to compete favorably with other manufacturers.
I quite like the proportioning of the new MDX and TLX, the longer hood RWD look. Some of the spy photos make it look like that may come to the 2022 Pilot but I worry about the Pilot losing the spacious 3rd row and cargo area. To someone like me, the Highlander (and CX-9, Sorrento, etc.) are not comparable to the Pilot because of the unusable 3rd rows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
i would take the published sales #'s with a grain of salt. I read articles all the time that Honda doesn't do fleet sales (ie rental companies) while other car makers do, and thus include those fleet sale #s into their total sales. Honda always claims "most retail sales.." for things like the Odyssey. so the sales # discrepancies might be closer than it seems.
 

·
Super Moderator
2020 Honda Passport Touring AWD Metallic Steel
Joined
·
4,487 Posts
This may be a regional thing that is being observed. Here the Honda Dealers used selection is mostly sedans, 1 Odyssey, 1 or 2 Pilots, a Ridgeline or two, but mostly Civics and Accords in the Honda line. Obviously a few other model vehicles as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,006 Posts
I drive by a couple huge car lots on my way home from the kids' summer camp. I have noticed there are a lot of pickups and compact (CR-V size) crossovers on the lots, but there is usually less than 5 3 rows on any of the lots. Almost always one monster (Suburban/Expedition size) and a handful of whatever else they could get. The Hyundai and Kia dealers seem to have the best variety as they are getting everyone upgrading to the Palisade and Telluride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: briantii

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
1.


Being fairly new to the Pilot (this is my first one), it's worth noting that many of the items on your list aren't things the average SUV buyer would know about or notice. Outside of this forum, nobody is longing for the "classic, clean, three-box body, traditional SUV lines", 2nd gen. I mean...c'mon.

Most vehicles don't have height adjustable tailgates. I didn't even know those were a thing until recently, and I'm not clear at all why they exist. And I haven't seen a glass hatch that opens since maybe 1990.

And nobody outside this forum knows what the heck a VCM is, rumor or otherwise.
I am not going to argue about something subjective like styling - I actually like the third generation - but my wife reacted very negatively to it because it looks like a minivan. I think a lot of people want the functionality of a van but with a different look - the boxy look of an SUV. It's why Toyota sells a boatload of 4Runners when many if not most of those buyers, logically speaking, likely would be better off in a Highlander. So I think the current generation styling is an issue for some, although personally I like it, particularly in dark colors. BTW, the transformation to the van idea is reinforced when Honda eliminates the standard tow hitch (I think it was standard across the board, you certainly see it on most second gens on the road) and the transmission cooler on the 4WD models. Cost cutting certainly, but it also gives off the van aura.

On the height adjustable tailgate / glass hatch feature, I am going to disagree. This is a common feature on most mainstream, moderately high end SUVs. Otherwise it is very difficult to access your hatch when the car is in the garage, for example. The fact that "lesser" Hondas like the CRV have this feature makes its absence on the Pilot more conspicuous. You don't need both the hatch and the height adjustability, but the absence of both is, again, a dealbreaker for many people like my wife who want the car in the garage.

We'll get a better sense of what Honda's market research shows when the next generation comes out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
277 Posts
I am not going to argue about something subjective like styling - I actually like the third generation - but my wife reacted very negatively to it because it looks like a minivan. I think a lot of people want the functionality of a van but with a different look - the boxy look of an SUV. It's why Toyota sells a boatload of 4Runners when many if not most of those buyers, logically speaking, likely would be better off in a Highlander. So I think the current generation styling is an issue for some, although personally I like it, particularly in dark colors. BTW, the transformation to the van idea is reinforced when Honda eliminates the standard tow hitch (I think it was standard across the board, you certainly see it on most second gens on the road) and the transmission cooler on the 4WD models. Cost cutting certainly, but it also gives off the van aura.

On the height adjustable tailgate / glass hatch feature, I am going to disagree. This is a common feature on most mainstream, moderately high end SUVs. Otherwise it is very difficult to access your hatch when the car is in the garage, for example. The fact that "lesser" Hondas like the CRV have this feature makes its absence on the Pilot more conspicuous. You don't need both the hatch and the height adjustability, but the absence of both is, again, a dealbreaker for many people like my wife who want the car in the garage.

We'll get a better sense of what Honda's market research shows when the next generation comes out.
I should've included in my original response -- I'm not defending the styling of the 3rd gen Pilot. I have one, and it's an appliance. You'll find posts from me essentially calling it a 4-door minivan, so you're preaching to the choir. My only point was that the previous gen was (similarly) an appliance and I've never thought of it as a design "goal". It would look absolutely ancient next to any current generation competition.

Interesting that the CRV has the feature, but that makes it clear that it will likely be integrated into the next-gen Pilot. I guess I'm lucky enough to have a tall garage door, because this has never been an issue with any vehicle I've ever owned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
I should've included in my original response -- I'm not defending the styling of the 3rd gen Pilot. I have one, and it's an appliance. You'll find posts from me essentially calling it a 4-door minivan, so you're preaching to the choir. My only point was that the previous gen was (similarly) an appliance and I've never thought of it as a design "goal". It would look absolutely ancient next to any current generation competition.

Interesting that the CRV has the feature, but that makes it clear that it will likely be integrated into the next-gen Pilot. I guess I'm lucky enough to have a tall garage door, because this has never been an issue with any vehicle I've ever owned.
It is interesting how the new Kia/Hyundai SUV (Telluride or Palisade, I get them confused) have returned to a boxier look. 4Runner continues to sell well even though it dates from maybe 2010 or 2011 with few substantive changes. I think the last gen Pilot sold well, at least partly, because it was more in the vein of these vehicles.
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top