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So we have had the Pilot about 6 months. When we bought it the MM was at 10% so they changed the oil before we picked it up. Now with around 3k miles on it the MM light came on for an oil change again. I'm guessing the fact that the car sees alot of idling and short trips figures in but that seems awful low. Any one else seen one that far south of 5k miles? This is my first car with an oil change light. On the other cars I have always changed at more like every 7k miles.
 

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The MM system calculates based on driving conditions, speed, etc, not just mileage. If you're doing lots of idling and stop/go trips then this is probably about right. If you were doing more standard mixed city/hwy miles you would probably get more like 6k-8k miles, which seems to be about average.

Also note the MM system is not just an oil life monitor. It used oil change completion to track other scheduled maintenance. Do not reset the system before it reaches the 15% flashing warning or it will throw off the calculations for upcoming scheduled maintenance.
 

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So we have had the Pilot about 6 months. When we bought it the MM was at 10% so they changed the oil before we picked it up. Now with around 3k miles on it the MM light came on for an oil change again. I'm guessing the fact that the car sees alot of idling and short trips figures in but that seems awful low. Any one else seen one that far south of 5k miles? This is my first car with an oil change light. On the other cars I have always changed at more like every 7k miles.
I'm not a fan of the MM system. Why? Because it lacks documentation. I have yet to find the programming or logic behind it. If I understood how the system operates, maybe I would trust it. Until then, I have my own service schedule.

I don't know if the lack of documentation is because it's some type of super secret Honda IP (doubt it) or if it's a strategy to force service upon the unknowing consumer. Either way, I don't like it. Being an engineer, I simply don't trust someone or something without documentation.
 

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I'm not a fan of the MM system. Why? Because it lacks documentation. I have yet to find the programming or logic behind it. If I understood how the system operates, maybe I would trust it. Until then, I have my own service schedule.

I don't know if the lack of documentation is because it's some type of super secret Honda IP (doubt it) or if it's a strategy to force service upon the unknowing consumer. Either way, I don't like it. Being an engineer, I simply don't trust someone or something without documentation.
Honda has absolutely no reason to share a bunch of algorithms with the general public so they can point to it, declare it a witch, and insist on drowning it as soon as possible because they don't understand it.

To the OP -- you said the vehicle spends lots of time idling and making short trips. Both of those are worse on the engine than driving it long enough to warm it up. Based on your description, I'd say the system is working as designed.

The irony is that people will point to the MM when it does find that a longer interval is appropriate, and insist that a 3k interval is appropriate. There's no winning.
 

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Being an engineer, I simply don't trust someone or something without documentation.
And it's a good thing you don't. No project I've ever managed had good software documentation. Even DoD programs where it's required. What's your workaround for iOS and Windows or the Pilot ICUs? If you only use open source code, then I'm proud of you!
 

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So we have had the Pilot about 6 months. When we bought it the MM was at 10% so they changed the oil before we picked it up. Now with around 3k miles on it the MM light came on for an oil change again. I'm guessing the fact that the car sees alot of idling and short trips figures in but that seems awful low. Any one else seen one that far south of 5k miles? This is my first car with an oil change light. On the other cars I have always changed at more like every 7k miles.
Someone else who used their Pilot for mostly short trips reported that the MM called for an oil change at about 3K miles.

Before the MM was implemented, the recommended oil change interval based on severe-service/short-trip use was 3,750 miles. If your MM alert came on at 3K miles and 15% remaining oil life, then the oil change interval is about 3,500 miles.

If you want to stretch the oil change interval, have a used oil sample tested by Blackstone Lab and see what they recommend.
 

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Honda MM algorithms based on what? Synthetic blend?
143371
 

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I just got my oil change done a couple hours ago actually. I had 10% on the MM and I only have about 2800 miles.
 

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I just got my oil change done a couple hours ago actually. I had 10% on the MM and I only have about 2800 miles.
Do you idle a lot? Stop n go traffic? Mine lit up around 3500 miles. I thought that was early, but most of my drivings are stop and go and idle quite often.
 

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2008 Piot SE FWD, 2015 Pilot LX 4WD. 2005 GSX-R1000
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Jeese Louis

To the OP, I've seen my 08 SE come on, go to zero % about 3K miles.
You do know you CAN keep going if you want to, and it starts showing negative #'s or something like that. I think it counts miles at that point past 0%.

I've never sent a sample in for testing.
Because? I just change the oil if I have doubts about a dark oils properties. If it's still clean- would you send it for testing? If it's dirty, I just change it. Got to be as cheap, or cheaper than sending a sample away.
If you like to get your oil tested- more power to you, don't let me stop you.
 

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3k miles on modern oil is a waste and harm to the environment IMO. I haven't done a 3k mile oil change in over 20 years. Gone as high as 25k miles. But oil changes are cheap. Do what you want with your vehicle, your money and your time. Don't worry about anyone else.

I'm not a fan of the MM system. Why? Because it lacks documentation. I have yet to find the programming or logic behind it. If I understood how the system operates, maybe I would trust it. Until then, I have my own service schedule.

I don't know if the lack of documentation is because it's some type of super secret Honda IP (doubt it) or if it's a strategy to force service upon the unknowing consumer. Either way, I don't like it. Being an engineer, I simply don't trust someone or something without documentation.
Couldn't agree more.

Honda has absolutely no reason to share a bunch of algorithms with the general public so they can point to it, declare it a witch, and insist on drowning it as soon as possible because they don't understand it.
Then Honda should give us a basic mileage based maintenance list. You know in case the brake fluid should be changed every 50k, and we are at 40k feeling fade we can pre-emptively change it.

MM is marketing to sell service, by hiding useful information as to the life of the product and its components from the buyer, period.
 

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Do you idle a lot? Stop n go traffic? Mine lit up around 3500 miles. I thought that was early, but most of my drivings are stop and go and idle quite often.
I think it's because of age. I don't idle a whole lot, but my car is over a year old.
 

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Based on the oil specified in the owner's manual.
I question whether they had the owner's best intrest in mind.
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I'm not a fan of the MM system. Why? Because it lacks documentation. I have yet to find the programming or logic behind it. If I understood how the system operates, maybe I would trust it. Until then, I have my own service schedule.

I don't know if the lack of documentation is because it's some type of super secret Honda IP (doubt it) or if it's a strategy to force service upon the unknowing consumer. Either way, I don't like it. Being an engineer, I simply don't trust someone or something without documentation.
See attached. TL;DR? Here are some key points...

1. The algorithm was developed assuming the use of lower quality oils and was verified using popular oils.

2. The algorithm accounts for some old oil remaining in the engine during a typical oil change.

3. The system uses coolant temperature, intake air temperature, intake air flow, engine speed, and vehicle speed to calculate oil life.

4. The maximum degree of error between calculated and actual oil life was 15% - the displayed oil life accounts for this error.

The indicated oil life assumes worse-case scenarios (the use of lower quality oil, some old oil remaining in the engine, and maximum degree of error).

The Maintenance Minder uses actual operating conditions to calculate engine oil life and transmission fluid life. Distance-based services are aligned with the nearest oil change interval for convenience.
 

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See attached. TL;DR? Here are some key points...

1. The algorithm was developed assuming the use of lower quality oils and was verified using popular oils.

2. The algorithm accounts for some old oil remaining in the engine during a typical oil change.

3. The system uses coolant temperature, intake air temperature, intake air flow, engine speed, and vehicle speed to calculate oil life.

4. The maximum degree of error between calculated and actual oil life was 15% - the displayed oil life accounts for this error.

The indicated oil life assumes worse-case scenarios (the use of lower quality oil, some old oil remaining in the engine, and maximum degree of error).

The Maintenance Minder uses actual operating conditions to calculate engine oil life and transmission fluid life. Distance-based services are aligned with the nearest oil change interval for convenience.
Very interesting.
I find it interesting that most who DIY regular maintenance can keep their vehicles out of the shop.
 
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And it's a good thing you don't. No project I've ever managed had good software documentation. Even DoD programs where it's required. What's your workaround for iOS and Windows or the Pilot ICUs? If you only use open source code, then I'm proud of you!
While I see your point, there is a big difference between a car and iOS device or PC. Speaking from a personal/consumer level, the car MUCH more expensive and MUCH more mechanical. It also has a much longer service life. While I respect Honda engineers, I can't help but feel cheated. Especially since service intervals have been documented on paper for many years prior. Why stop? Is the general public now too stupid?


See attached. TL;DR? Here are some key points...
Thanks for sharing. Looked at it real quick and noticed it was from 2003. I will read it but will have to wonder if or how it changed in the last 17 years.
 

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I'm not a fan of the MM system. Why? Because it lacks documentation. I have yet to find the programming or logic behind it. If I understood how the system operates, maybe I would trust it. Until then, I have my own service schedule.

I don't know if the lack of documentation is because it's some type of super secret Honda IP (doubt it) or if it's a strategy to force service upon the unknowing consumer. Either way, I don't like it. Being an engineer, I simply don't trust someone or something without documentation.
If you don't trust that the engineers who developed the MM were competent in performing that task, then you must have the same opinion about the engineers who developed the rest of the vehicle.
In that event, why did you buy a Honda?
 
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