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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As one who uses S-VCM on 3 vehicles, I reported an incident on another thread and had no reaction. I felt the need to create a new post with my experience as a warning and to say... Use this device with caution.
Our 245k mile V6 Crosstour was supposedly having A.C. trouble. The driver said it was not cooling when idling but cooled ok at highway speed. When I was checking the freon level (was adaquate), I noticed the passenger side cooling fan was not coming on. The compressor was not staying on but for just a few seconds and turning off. I determined that the A.C. condenser was not being cooled adequately. Since the S-VCM defaults the engine temp to 165.2°F, it made diagnosing a overheating problem more difficult. So as a word of caution to all who use these devices, make sure both cooling fans are operational after the engine is warmed up to operating temperature. I replaced the fan and all is ok.
The purpose of this thread was not to discourage the use of a VCM disabling device, but to bring out the importance of knowing that your cooling system is functioning properly when using these devices. My S-VCM device will never be the cause of an overheating problem. It does make diagnosing a problem more difficult. When running diagnostics (you or your mechanic) needs to know about the device. Temporarily disconnect it if necessary. Only reconnect when engine is cool.
S-VCM is saving my Engine (now at 256k miles, no engine light).
 

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The radiator fan isn't very strong. When I turn the A/C on, that fan is pretty loud and strong. Should I replace the radiator fan based on that? It seems like typically the radiator fan runs a little louder on the 2013 and most other cars I encounter. It's been pretty hot here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The radiator fan isn't very strong. When I turn the A/C on, that fan is pretty loud and strong. Should I replace the radiator fan based on that? It seems like typically the radiator fan runs a little louder on the 2013 and most other cars I encounter. It's been pretty hot here.
I wouldn't replace it unless it was failing. The one I replaced was the original OEM Denso. I got 240k miles out of it.
 

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I wouldn't replace it unless it was failing. The one I replaced was the original OEM Denso. I got 240k miles out of it.
I did some further testing. Thay fan only comes on with the AC is on. Is it supposed to come on sometimes even if I’m not running the AC?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I did some further testing. Thay fan only comes on with the AC is on. Is it supposed to come on sometimes even if I’m not running the AC?
When engine is cool and A.C. is off. No fan will come on. Turn the A.C. on and the fans should begin to work. If no A.C. is on and your engine reaches operating temp, the fans should come on. Easiest way to check is to have warmed up engine and A.C. on. Both fans should come on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I did some further testing. Thay fan only comes on with the AC is on. Is it supposed to come on sometimes even if I’m not running the AC?
When engine is cool and A.C. is off. No fan will come on. Turn the A.C. on and the fans should begin to work. If no A.C. is on and your engine reaches operating temp, the fans should come on. Easiest way to check is to have warmed up engine and A.C. on. Both fans should come on.
I should also say that one or the other has the ability to cause the fans to turn on (A.C. or engine temp sensor). It's important to know both triggers are functioning. Sometimes the fans are good and you have a bad relay.
 
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The radiator fan isn't very strong. When I turn the A/C on, that fan is pretty loud and strong. Should I replace the radiator fan based on that? It seems like typically the radiator fan runs a little louder on the 2013 and most other cars I encounter. It's been pretty hot here.
Given the two fan motors and fan blades are different I would expect them to sound and perform differently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
S-VCM will never be the cause of an engine overheating problem. S-VCM may make diagnosing an overheating problem more difficult. Simply disconnect the device when running diagnostics. Easy enough.
 

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As one who uses S-VCM on 3 vehicles, I reported an incident on another thread and had no reaction. I felt the need to create a new post with my experience as a warning and to say... Use this device with caution.
Our 245k mile V6 Crosstour was supposedly having A.C. trouble. The driver said it was not cooling when idling but cooled ok at highway speed. When I was checking the freon level (was adaquate), I noticed the passenger side cooling fan was not coming on. The compressor was not staying on but for just a few seconds and turning off. I determined that the A.C. condenser was not being cooled adequately. Since the S-VCM defaults the engine temp to 165.2°F, it made diagnosing a overheating problem more difficult. So as a word of caution to all who use these devices, make sure both cooling fans are operational after the engine is warmed up to operating temperature. I replaced the fan and all is ok.
Jeesh ... I guess I should have known this. I just bought a S-VCM, why? I have had a perfectly working VCMuzzer II for over a year but was getting annoyed that my ECO light would come on after idling for a long time at long red lights and I knew why because I could see the temp reading on the gauge was a little higher than normal. So I figured it was time to change the resistor. Being lazy as well as stupid, I figured buying the S-VCM would relieve me of having to change the resistor.

After reading this, I should be GRATEFUL, the VCMuzzler gives me some indication when things are hotter than usual for the small price of having VCM engage for a minute or so until the car has been moving for a while to get enough air through the radiator to cool things down. If the S-VCM defaults to 162.5 then I'll lose that warning.

Crap! Now I'm not sure if I should just leave the VCMuzzler II where it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Jeesh ... I guess I should have known this. I just bought a S-VCM, why? I have had a perfectly working VCMuzzer II for over a year but was getting annoyed that my ECO light would come on after idling for a long time at long red lights and I knew why because I could see the temp reading on the gauge was a little higher than normal. So I figured it was time to change the resistor. Being lazy as well as stupid, I figured buying the S-VCM would relieve me of having to change the resistor.

After reading this, I should be GRATEFUL, the VCMuzzler gives me some indication when things are hotter than usual for the small price of having VCM engage for a minute or so until the car has been moving for a while to get enough air through the radiator to cool things down. If the S-VCM defaults to 162.5 then I'll lose that warning.

Crap! Now I'm not sure if I should just leave the VCMuzzler II where it is.
Not sure I understand. S-VCM will safely disable the VCM. From what I understand it will also send you a check engine light if you are overheating. Cooling fan burn out will happen with or without S-VCM. The device makes it difficult to diagnose if you have a problem. Simply unclip the device and plug in your temp sensor connector when trying to determine if your fans come on when they should.
 

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Not sure I understand. S-VCM will safely disable the VCM. From what I understand it will also send you a check engine light if you are overheating. Cooling fan burn out will happen with or without S-VCM. The device makes it difficult to diagnose if you have a problem. Simply unclip the device and plug in your temp sensor connector when trying to determine if your fans come on when they should.
The difference is one gives you a slightly lower indication of the actual temperature which warns you well before it's too hot, whereas the other gives you a fixed value until your engine is already overheating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The difference is one gives you a slightly lower indication of the actual temperature which warns you well before it's too hot, whereas the other gives you a fixed value until your engine is already overheating.
So your saying S-VCM will allow your vehicle to overheat with no warning?
 

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One of the fans is to draw air through the condensor and increase A/C performance, the other is for maximum CFM to pull air through the radiator and any coolers installed. I'm sure if the engine/trans gets hot enough it will run both fans for cooling even if the A/C is off (it will probably turn the A/C off in that scenario).
 
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So your saying S-VCM will allow your vehicle to overheat with no warning?
Based on the "Performance Features" that come in the directions with the unit, you get a warning, but only AFTER the engine overheats.

IOW ... "Warning the barn doors are open and the horses got out."

What I now see as a feature of the VCMuzzler is when the ECT gets higher than the trigger point for VCM including the resistor offset (less than 10*F at operating temp and the low resistor), the ECO light comes on which is an attention getting warning the ECT is rising. That happens way before the engine overheats. That can be prevented by putting in a bigger resistor for more offset. But now I don't want to do that. I don't care if VCM engages for a few seconds after stopping at a long red light. If the ECO light doesn't go out after a few seconds I know something is wrong. It doesn't happen often. Only at certain lights over 3 minutes long in the summer.

The S-VCM gives a constant reading regardless of rising ETC until the engine overheats at which point you're on your own with the onboard computer safeguards which is stopped off the side of the road. ugh!

143132
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Based on the "Performance Features" that come in the directions with the unit, you get a warning, but only AFTER the engine overheats.

IOW ... "Warning the barn doors are open and the horses got out."

What I now see as a feature of the VCMuzzler is when the ECT gets higher than the trigger point for VCM including the resistor offset (less than 10*F at operating temp and the low resistor), the ECO light comes on which is an attention getting warning the ECT is rising. That happens way before the engine overheats. The S-VCM gives a constant reading regardless of rising ETC until the engine overheats at which point you're on your own with the onboard computer safeguards which is stopped off the side of the road. ugh! I'm going to ask if he will take it back for a refund.

View attachment 143132
Thanks for the photo.
This is not a deal killer for me. I've always know it holds the temp reading at 165.2°F.
I guess the question now would be, at what point does S-VCM bypass itself to alert you when there is an overheat problem.
 

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Thanks for the photo.
This is not a deal killer for me. I've always know it holds the temp reading at 165.2°F.
I guess the question now would be, at what point does S-VCM bypass itself to alert you when there is an overheat problem.
I don't know but my guess is it's somewhere right after the temp when the computer says it's overheating so the dash lights come on. If I didn't already have the VCMuzzler II installed and working, I'd probably keep the S-VCM. But if he will take it back unused for a refund, I'd jump on it. Sometimes you think you don't like something until you replace it with something you don't like it more.

I have a friend who's been through three divorces. He says he's down to 12-1/2%.:ROFLMAO:
 

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OK, having just bought 2 of these SVCM ( I researched the 2 main products, and read thru the 'birth' of the muzzler thread, now the M II., I think I have some things to say about this thread and this device.
I've already installed SVCM on my Gen 2.

As one who uses S-VCM on 3 vehicles, I reported an incident on another thread and had no reaction. I felt the need to create a new post with my experience as a warning and to say... Use this device with caution.
Our 245k mile V6 Crosstour was supposedly having A.C. trouble. The driver said it was not cooling when idling but cooled ok at highway speed. When I was checking the freon level (was adaquate), I noticed the passenger side cooling fan was not coming on. The compressor was not staying on but for just a few seconds and turning off. I determined that the A.C. condenser was not being cooled adequately. Since the S-VCM defaults the engine temp to 165.2°F, it made diagnosing a overheating problem more difficult. So as a word of caution to all who use these devices, make sure both cooling fans are operational after the engine is warmed up to operating temperature. I replaced the fan and all is ok.

You are pointing out that one of your cooling fans were bad, and then dissing the SVCM because you feel (and probalby did) you didn't diagnose it sooner?


Jeesh ... I guess I should have known this. I just bought a S-VCM, why? I have had a perfectly working VCMuzzer II for over a year but was getting annoyed that my ECO light would come on after idling for a long time at long red lights and I knew why because I could see the temp reading on the gauge was a little higher than normal. So I figured it was time to change the resistor. Being lazy as well as stupid, I figured buying the S-VCM would relieve me of having to change the resistor.

After reading this, I should be GRATEFUL, the VCMuzzler gives me some indication when things are hotter than usual for the small price of having VCM engage for a minute or so until the car has been moving for a while to get enough air through the radiator to cool things down. If the S-VCM defaults to 162.5 then I'll lose that warning.

Crap! Now I'm not sure if I should just leave the VCMuzzler II where it is.
I feel the Muzzler ii has the lower tech, and can lead to an unannounced hotter engine easier than the VCM.
The muzzler is using the SAMe technology to 'fool' the EDU into thinking the engine is at a certain temperature. The SVCM has a low voltage power wire to do that you 'pop the hood/change the resister' for.


Based on the "Performance Features" that come in the directions with the unit, you get a warning, but only AFTER the engine overheats.

IOW ... "Warning the barn doors are open and the horses got out."

What I now see as a feature of the VCMuzzler is when the ECT gets higher than the trigger point for VCM including the resistor offset (less than 10*F at operating temp and the low resistor), the ECO light comes on which is an attention getting warning the ECT is rising. That happens way before the engine overheats. That can be prevented by putting in a bigger resistor for more offset. But now I don't want to do that. I don't care if VCM engages for a few seconds after stopping at a long red light. If the ECO light doesn't go out after a few seconds I know something is wrong. It doesn't happen often. Only at certain lights over 3 minutes long in the summer.

The S-VCM gives a constant reading regardless of rising ETC until the engine overheats at which point you're on your own with the onboard computer safeguards which is stopped off the side of the road. ugh!

View attachment 143132
I don't think the SVCM, will only alert you AFTER you've done overheating damage to your motor. No, I don't want to find out. That's why I choose the SVCM.

I wouldn't replace it unless it was failing. The one I replaced was the original OEM Denso. I got 240k miles out of it.
I rest my case.
 

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I don't know but my guess is it's somewhere right after the temp when the computer says it's overheating so the dash lights come on. If I didn't already have the VCMuzzler II installed and working, I'd probably keep the S-VCM. But if he will take it back unused for a refund, I'd jump on it. Sometimes you think you don't like something until you replace it with something you don't like it more.

I have a friend who's been through three divorces. He says he's down to 12-1/2%.:ROFLMAO:
You guys should check out the svcm web site. A lot of this is clarified with examples. The short story here is that s vcm will go into bypass before the engine gets destructively hot, giving you a chance to do something about it. The resister based ones may let you get way too hot before the gauge indicates a problem.

Example from their site that may help:

143209
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You guys should check out the svcm web site. A lot of this is clarified with examples. The short story here is that s vcm will go into bypass before the engine gets destructively hot, giving you a chance to do something about it. The resister based ones may let you get way too hot before the gauge indicates a problem.

Example from their site that may help:

View attachment 143209
Yes, thanks for the info.
Some fear mongering going on in other threads.
This post was to alert S-VCM users to regularly inspect their cooling systems and the ability/difficulty to diagnose a cooling system problem when a VCM disabling device is being used. Not to stir fear.
 

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Yes, thanks for the info.
Some fear mongering going on in other threads.
This post was to alert S-VCM users to regularly inspect their cooling systems and the ability/difficulty to diagnose a cooling system problem when a VCM disabling device is being used. Not to stir fear.
I have discussed this with the S-VCM company and through cordial exchanges, he was not only willing to allow me to return the unit and refund my money, but he was able to clear up some misconceptions the documentation in the product led me to believe. So I decided to keep the unit because this is a company with great customer service that takes the time and effort to stand behind its product and its customers (and even potential ex-customers). They even refrained from commenting on competitor's designs when specifically asked. That's impressive.

I haven't installed the unit yet so I have no first person witness to how it works, but this is my current understanding of some things that the documentation does no favors in making clear.

The Honda temperature gauge in not linear and has a "dead zone" in the middle of its range so that the needle barely moves in a safe range of temperatures around the normal operating temperature. So this makes detecting safe rises in temperature very difficult to detect using the temperature gauge. This is evidently done for the benefit of Honda and its service network to alleviate them of owners constantly questioning higher than normal temperature gauge readings. If the needle barely moves in its midrange even though engine temperature is varying based on climate, fan(s) on or off, or how fast the car is moving, service techs get a lot fewer questions.

So, my belief that I could detect trends in rising temperature using the temperature gauge before "overheating" occurred was a false assumption.

The lie your car is telling you about the coolant's real temperature has more to do with the designed in non-linearity of the temperature gauge and its ability to hide fluctuations in temperature within the nominal operating range.

As temperatures start approaching "overheating," the temperature gauge once again become more sensitive so you can shut down the engine before damaging temperatures are reached.

Part of the misconception I had was that "overheating" as used to describe when the S-VCM bypasses itself, which happens at 230*F, is NOT overheating in the sense that damage to the engine from excessive heat is occurring. So once bypassed, the S-VCM allows you to see the fast rising temperature on the gauge in its more linear range on the high end in order to have time to do something about it.

I don't know any of this from first hand testing or experience, but when I install it if I find out differently, I'll be sure to let you know. In the meantime I believe what the designer told me because it makes sense and I find him very credible (and smart).

I am not affiliated in any way with the S-VCM, any other VCM defeating device, or Honda other than as a retail paying customer.
 
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