Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner

Valve Cleaning, A Necessity for 3rd Gens

11K views 60 replies 11 participants last post by  Nail Grease 
#1 ·
149050

After replacing fuel injectors a few weeks ago because of a P219A code, injector failure on cylinder #1, It became obvious that dirty valves is a real problem for this newly designed Honda V6. Not much being said about it. I think that awareness is needed or pay the price later. Hence the reason for starting an a thread to discuss ways to combat it. I painstakingly scraped valves and used valve spray cleaner to help dissolve it. The engine is running good now after injector replacement and valve cleaning. I believe that dirty valves may be the reason for the hesitation some people are having issues with.
 
See less See more
1
  • Like
Reactions: ron2016
#3 ·
You're talking about the TOP or the valves? WTH would that even matter?

So, IIRC the injector on third Gens is IN the combustion chamber too?

If the bottom of the valve is dirty- so is the top of the piston, and everything else in the combustion chamber, like the injectors too?
How would cleaning the top really change anything.

Again, I'm not at all saying you're wrong, just always learning.

Engines combust, things get carbon, oil, and dirty.
 
#5 ·
Carbon on the back of the valve effects performance. If left unchecked, it affects the way air enters the combustion chamber. It can cause poor fuel economy and misfires. It can make the engine hard to start and run rough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: claybo1708
#10 ·
The popular solution for other models like VW and BMW seems to be a walnut or other media shell blasting of the intake valves.

My wife and I are looking to trade in our Pilot and purchase a Highlander Hybrid. Toyotas use a port and direct injection based system so this buildup will simply never happen.

The topic of DI carbon buildup is a hot topic on Subaru forums but seems to be largely a non issue so long as people change oil on time. Noack values of the oil seem to have a significant impact on this over time too. I believe SN+ and SP rated oils are designed with Carbon Buildup and LSPI in mind (for turbos)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nail Grease
#13 ·
Has any specific motor oil been identified that performs particularly well on the Noack volatility test?
Bueller, Bueller, @Nail Grease?
This is certainly something to look into. Using oils that were less susceptible to thermal breakdown was something brought to my attention not long ago. Thankfully, I'm not having to top off my 3rd gen Pilot on Shell Rotella Gas Truck oil, but I will be reading labels since @pilot1226 has provided more awareness. Looks like pushing the limits of an oil change might not be such a good idea on this 3rd gen.
 
#16 ·
DEXOS 1 Gen 2 specifies a Noack of 9.0 (IIRC) or better. Most name brands make a 0w-20 synthetic that meets that value comfortably. I've scoured BITOG on this topic many times better never found a more specific conclusion than that. You can find a few Noack comparison tests but it's hard to draw firm conclusions IMO.
 
#12 ·
From what I’ve seen on a “very popular” oil guy forum,
it appears that most of the degradation happens after a certain mileage. Many drivers fall into the manufacturer’s severe service category but still follow normal schedules. Suburban and urban driving definitely put more stress on the oil. More thermal cycles per interval, more inefficient driving (cold engine), short trips, etc.

It seems the new 0w-20 GF6/SP are a good option. People have had positive reviews with lab analysis of the Costco branded stuff, along with any major company’s fully synthetic option, assuming you don’t overstress the oil interval. In other words cheaper brand oil is ok, just change more frequently.

The bigger issue here, in my opinion, is longer oil service intervals, especially for drivers not following the severe interval.

Subaru has told me they intentionally avoided lean-burn type systems with their DI Boxer designs that started with the 2019 Forester refresh. I have been following severe service and I figure if I’m wrong, I’m just out extra oil changes. If I’m right, I saved a whole lot more than that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Slvr7
#14 ·
From what I’ve seen on a “very popular” oil guy forum,
it appears that most of the degradation happens after a certain mileage. Many drivers fall into the manufacturer’s severe service category but still follow normal schedules. Suburban and urban driving definitely put more stress on the oil. More thermal cycles per interval, more inefficient driving (cold engine), short trips, etc.

It seems the new 0w-20 GF6/SP are a good option. People have had positive reviews with lab analysis of the Costco branded stuff, along with any major company’s fully synthetic option, assuming you don’t overstress the oil interval. In other words cheaper brand oil is ok, just change more frequently.

The bigger issue here, in my opinion, is longer oil service intervals, especially for drivers not following the severe interval.

Subaru has told me they intentionally avoided lean-burn type systems with their DI Boxer designs that started with the 2019 Forester refresh. I have been following severe service and I figure if I’m wrong, I’m just out extra oil changes. If I’m right, I saved a whole lot more than that.
Thanks for these informative post. Will definitely be looking for those GF6/SP codes on my oil.
The generic cheap house oil I've never been a fan of. Seems more the reason to not use it on a 3rd gen.
 
#34 ·
You are correct, but they are not without their challenges. Depending on your driving conditions/habits, catch cans in colder climates have quite a bit of water in them and can freeze, rendering the can potentially useless at that time.

Additionally, my opinion and argument the whole time in this thread is that this is not a problem. I cannot justify spending money and time to fix something that is not a problem. As with anything, there will be a percentage that experience the issue but I wouldn't recommend a lot of preventative measures to people when I don't think the issue is present in most vehicles to be prevented. For instance, VCM in 1st and 2nd gens is known to cause a high percentage of problems, so I recommend deactivating it. Not the case with carbon buildup on intake valves on the 3rd gen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pilot1226
#53 ·
I believe that quality oil changed at “urban” or “severe” intervals will help the issue - for example, change your oil when the 15% light comes on, not at 0% - as well as always using top tier fuel. I believe the manual actually specified TTF use. I prefer Costco because they seem to have the most additive per volume for 87.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cintocrunch
#55 ·
I'm no expert, I see what I see and I don't like carbon buildup on valves at any milage. If the carbon buildup ever prevents the valves from sealing, you got an even bigger problem.
I think the majority of people are likely to be late in getting their oil changed than being punctual about it. Throw in the VCM technology on top of old semi synthetic oil changes from the quick lube joint, a stuck PCV, clogged air filter, dirty MAF, cheap untreated gasoline, urban driving habits. Ya.... there's not going to be problems with dirty valves on 3rd gen Honda Pilots. 😏👍
 
  • Like
Reactions: pilot1226
#56 ·
Pretty soon we will all have electric SUV’s so it won’t matter. I wonder who will crack that formula first. A three row EV with 300+ miles of actual range would be excellent.

That’s asking a lot though. You’d need a 150 kW pack (or usable amount) at a 500 Wh/Mile. Even 333 would be aggressive. That would be what, around 90 kWh pack. Expensive.

while I digress, I love the designs with range extenders. A simple motor that generates electricity in a pinch.
 
#58 ·
this is why most dealerships have a little display sitting on the countertop when you walk in. it is of a valve covered in carbon build-up. they sell an intake cleaning service to help reduce the build-up but it really needs to be done pro-actively. these same services were offered to me from toyota dealers after I purchased a yaris back in 2010.

deposits will form if the valve never gets hot enough to start self-cleaning, the temp at which new deposits will not form and old deposits actually start burn off. ever use the self cleaning function on your oven in the kitchen or blast your propane grill burners on max and watch all the grease from the previous cooking session almost magically disappear only to leave behind a fine dusty coating.

like others have said, nice long extended highway trips are probably very good at helping extend engine life.
I really want to find an endoscope to checkout my Pilot's valves when I do the upper gaskets this summer
 
#59 ·
this is why most dealerships have a little display sitting on the countertop when you walk in. it is of a valve covered in carbon build-up. they sell an intake cleaning service to help reduce the build-up but it really needs to be done pro-actively. these same services were offered to me from toyota dealers after I purchased a yaris back in 2010.

deposits will form if the valve never gets hot enough to start self-cleaning, the temp at which new deposits will not form and old deposits actually start burn off. ever use the self cleaning function on your oven in the kitchen or blast your propane grill burners on max and watch all the grease from the previous cooking session almost magically disappear only to leave behind a fine dusty coating.

like others have said, nice long extended highway trips are probably very good at helping extend engine life.
I really want to find an endoscope to checkout my Pilot's valves when I do the upper gaskets this summer
You've got a 1st gen, port injection should be helping keep any deposits pulled in through the PCV soft and the detergents in the fuel should help keep them from sticking or remove them from the valves. This phenomena in mainstream cars (OK, I know classics could have this problem but they could also burn a quart of oil in 200 miles and still run great) is the product of DI and turbo, downsized engines.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top