Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
2006 EX-L 4WD Nav
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For the past few months, only right after startup, I've been experiencing a rough idle and a delay in power delivery when pressing down the accelerator. The check engine light has been off and on very intermittently, throwing code P0172. There are no other symptoms, and after the car warms up, there is no more rough idle or power delay.

A while ago while getting something else done, a mechanic that specializes in Honda and Acura products told me that I needed a valve adjustment in the not-too-distant future. Quoted me $800. Given the symptoms, does this sound like a valve adjustment is needed? I have 183,000 miles.
 

·
Registered
2004 Pilot EX-L
Joined
·
519 Posts
I had a rough idle on my 04 when cold. 170k miles and never had a valve adjustment before. I replaced 2 engine mounts that were bad, but still had the rough cold idle every morning. Then I did a valve adjustment, and it idles so smoothly now, and has a lot more power when I accelerate. Every one of the 24 valves needed adjustment, almost all were really loose, but a few were excessively tight which could be bad if ignored forever. I'm really glad I did the adjustment
 

·
Registered
2006 EX-L 4WD Nav
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have heard that there can be a substantial difference in power and fuel economy with a valve adjustment. I definitely want to do one anyway, but I don't want to spend $800 unless absolutely necessary just yet.
 

·
Administrator
2020 Honda Passport Touring AWD Metallic Steel
Joined
·
4,848 Posts
For the past few months, only right after startup, I've been experiencing a rough idle and a delay in power delivery when pressing down the accelerator. The check engine light has been off and on very intermittently, throwing code P0172. There are no other symptoms, and after the car warms up, there is no more rough idle or power delay.

A while ago while getting something else done, a mechanic that specializes in Honda and Acura products told me that I needed a valve adjustment in the not-too-distant future. Quoted me $800. Given the symptoms, does this sound like a valve adjustment is needed? I have 183,000 miles.
When was the last time you changed the timing belt, water pump, tensioner etc. If you are about due again then it would be better to do it all at once.
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Pilot EXL- 227,700 Miles
Joined
·
740 Posts
Plan on starting my Valve Adjustment tomorrow- Every 105k miles is Honda’s recommendation and I’m a little past due.
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Pilot EXL- 227,700 Miles
Joined
·
740 Posts
Let us know how it goes! Include what parts you ordered beforehand, and what tools/parts you inevitably didn't have and required a trip to Advance for.

--Chris N.
Will do! Presently I have No MIL’s on and she is running Great! Averaging 19-22mpg on Interstate and around 17-18mpg around town with avg speed 45-50 mph - not many traffic lights
My plan is to check/do the easy ones first ( cylinders 4,5,6) to build confidence and see if they are all in spec- if out then I’ll tackle the Rear wiring harness “nightmare/back strainers”. Lol. Any input on my plan is More than Welcomed!! Thanks
Conrad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,045 Posts
Will do! Presently I have No MIL’s on and she is running Great! Averaging 19-22mpg on Interstate and around 17-18mpg around town with avg speed 45-50 mph - not many traffic lights
My plan is to check/do the easy ones first ( cylinders 4,5,6) to build confidence and see if they are all in spec- if out then I’ll tackle the Rear wiring harness “nightmare/back strainers”. Lol. Any input on my plan is More than Welcomed!! Thanks
Conrad
When you pull the intake manifold for the valve adjust, it's a good time to clean out the EGR passages and replace the PCV valve. The EGR passages in the manifold get full of soot, and this can cause misfires. It's probably time for spark plugs, too, unless you have already replaced them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
I have heard that there can be a substantial difference in power and fuel economy with a valve adjustment. I definitely want to do one anyway, but I don't want to spend $800 unless absolutely necessary just yet.
At almost 200,000 miles, you'll likely notice an immediate difference.

However, if the cost is disturbing - DIY!

If you were to buy feeler gauges and even a few other tools - the cost to just adjust valves is well under $100. The only thing you definitely need is a new valve cover gasket set and the cost of a Fel-Pro kit (for both covers, with grommets) is about $30.

If you were to revamp the entire system you're still probably under $300. You could get new seals and boots for your coil packs (another $30-40), new plugs (NGKs, about $120+), a new EGR valve (about $60), a new PCV valve ($5), and a few cans of carburetor cleaner and brake parts cleaner ($2 each for SuperTech). You could even throw in a can of SeaFoam intake cleaner ($7-10 each) and a new air filter. And you definitely don't need to change these when you do the valves, but if you did you'd probably have peace of mind for at least 50,000 miles...

There are multiple threads on this forum for adjusting valves and Eric the Car Guy has some very nice videos for how to use feeler gauges for adjusting valves. The job is more tedious than anything else. It requires basic mechanical skills but moreso the valve adjustment on the Pilot requires physical and mental perseverance - you will use fine motor skills in some unnatural body positions, especially for the valves next to the firewall.
 

·
Registered
2006 EX-L 4WD Nav
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
When was the last time you changed the timing belt, water pump, tensioner etc. If you are about due again then it would be better to do it all at once.
The timing belt and water pump were done at 115,000 miles, right before I took ownership of the car, so it's slightly too soon for that.

Is there potential damage to be done by driving another 25,000 miles when the car obviously needs a valve adjustment?

Thanks for all the responses -- I don't trust my DIY skills for this one. I am like a bull in a china shop and this sounds like a delicate procedure.
 

·
Administrator
2020 Honda Passport Touring AWD Metallic Steel
Joined
·
4,848 Posts
The timing belt and water pump were done at 115,000 miles, right before I took ownership of the car, so it's slightly too soon for that.

Is there potential damage to be done by driving another 25,000 miles when the car obviously needs a valve adjustment?

Thanks for all the responses -- I don't trust my DIY skills for this one. I am like a bull in a china shop and this sounds like a delicate procedure.
Yes, especially if some of the valves are too tight. Valves sticking piston head are never good for the valves, piston heads and other components.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
I bought my '03 from a friend who moved from Michigan to Georgia and didn't want to take a car with 300,000 miles south.

The VTM and CEL lights had been on for at least 15 months when I bought it - the mechanic had told my friend they thought the PCM was fried, so my friend never investigated further (and balked at the $2k price for a new PCM). The private shop and mechanic that diagnosed the bad PCM are relatively well-respected in town, so I also had no reason to suspect otherwise. I bought it for $200 and decided at that price I would simply, and literally, drive it until it died.

I drove it for another year with the lights on before the idle got so rough I knew it needed help and that something other than the PCM was at fault. That's when I researched everything on this forum and methodically started changing parts and doing maintenance until I had it running better than new.

So, to put it in perspective, my '03 was driven for about 2.5 years (or more) with valves out of adjustment. When I finally tackled the job last summer, I needed to adjust 23/24 valves, and the exhaust valves were all way too tight.

Yes, valves out of adjustment on an interference motor can do damage, but most times the car runs worse and eventually decides not to idle or start. It also depends (somewhat) on how and where you drive - if you tow, or carry heavy loads, or drive up hills or mountains every day then you're more likely to do damage compared with the person who drives 5 miles to work on flat city streets and only carries groceries.

My '03 may have some longterm engine damage from running it that long, but after 325,000 miles I won't be able to tell if its normal wear and tear or due to running it with bad valves. I also think it's more likely my Pilot will die of cancerous rust before the motor dies...
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
293 Posts
Yes, especially if some of the valves are too tight. Valves sticking piston head are never good for the valves, piston heads and other components.
The pilot I bought used had 230k miles on it and never had a valve adjustment, was running just fine...so risky, maybe, but how much risk, definitely not as much as a timing belt being worn out.
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Pilot EXL- 227,700 Miles
Joined
·
740 Posts
When you pull the intake manifold for the valve adjust, it's a good time to clean out the EGR passages and replace the PCV valve. The EGR passages in the manifold get full of soot, and this can cause misfires. It's probably time for spark plugs, too, unless you have already replaced them.
Yes sir! Got spark plugs waiting and manifold is still clean from knock sensor replacement earlier this year. The inside of valve cover is Hideously stained with oil? build up. Get this- Upper Center bolt on Front cover wasn’t even hand tight!! I flipped out! Same cover that was leaking on opposite side!! Lol. Loose bolt side was dry! Lol
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Pilot EXL- 227,700 Miles
Joined
·
740 Posts
I bought my '03 from a friend who moved from Michigan to Georgia and didn't want to take a car with 300,000 miles south.

The VTM and CEL lights had been on for at least 15 months when I bought it - the mechanic had told my friend they thought the PCM was fried, so my friend never investigated further (and balked at the $2k price for a new PCM). The private shop and mechanic that diagnosed the bad PCM are relatively well-respected in town, so I also had no reason to suspect otherwise. I bought it for $200 and decided at that price I would simply, and literally, drive it until it died.

I drove it for another year with the lights on before the idle got so rough I knew it needed help and that something other than the PCM was at fault. That's when I researched everything on this forum and methodically started changing parts and doing maintenance until I had it running better than new.

So, to put it in perspective, my '03 was driven for about 2.5 years (or more) with valves out of adjustment. When I finally tackled the job last summer, I needed to adjust 23/24 valves, and the exhaust valves were all way too tight.

Yes, valves out of adjustment on an interference motor can do damage, but most times the car runs worse and eventually decides not to idle or start. It also depends (somewhat) on how and where you drive - if you tow, or carry heavy loads, or drive up hills or mountains every day then you're more likely to do damage compared with the person who drives 5 miles to work on flat city streets and only carries groceries.

My '03 may have some longterm engine damage from running it that long, but after 325,000 miles I won't be able to tell if its normal wear and tear or due to running it with bad valves. I also think it's more likely my Pilot will die of cancerous rust before the motor dies...
I’ve checked Front bank cylinders 4&5- All are out and like you Exhaust tighter than expected....so I guess this is the first time they have been adjusted- Looks like I’m going to the rear bank tomorrow after I finish #6 and get better lighting
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Pilot EXL- 227,700 Miles
Joined
·
740 Posts
I’ve checked Front bank cylinders 4&5- All are out and like you Exhaust tighter than expected....so I guess this is the first time they have been adjusted- Looks like I’m going to the rear bank tomorrow after I finish #6 and get better lighting
Had to finish #6 today after all. Couldn’t get .003 thru #6 far right exhaust. Anybody had that before? Glad I’m getting this done!!!
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
2005 Pilot EXL- 227,700 Miles
Joined
·
740 Posts
The pilot I bought used had 230k miles on it and never had a valve adjustment, was running just fine...so risky, maybe, but how much risk, definitely not as much as a timing belt being worn out.
I got about 221k on mine and pretty sure this is the first valve adjustment for my ‘05
 

·
Premium Member
2005 Pilot EXL- 227,700 Miles
Joined
·
740 Posts
Had to finish #6 today after all. Couldn’t get .003" thru #6 far right exhaust. Anybody had that before? Glad I’m getting this done!!!
About to Dive In Rear Bank- Wasn't joking about Lighting- I need every advantage I can get! Got the light for other project, and wanted to save $ by not buying a HF stick light. LOL ohh....the Treadmill in background is a sleep aid- when I wake up too early I think "Hey I need to hit the Treadmill!" then instantly I am able to go back to sleep! If that doesn't work, I think about the Bowflex next to it which presently doubles as a storage facility ;)
Also- ordered a set of Go-No Go feeler gauges from Amazon- arriving today. Will see if that also helps with rear bank. Been using 2- gauges as Go-No Go and that's kinda a pain.
The Tube Seals are a pain to get out- thus far found a flat head screw driver pushing in at bottom of seal and prying up is working best and causing minimum damage- Better idea? I'm listening!
Freezing the seals prior to installation and adding a little motor oil is the ticket for pushing the seals in by hand!
Bolt seals- Separate the metal washer from old seal and cut seal with side cutters- easy then lubricate/silicone spray new seals and push right on with fingers!
Using Felpro kit- heard it was good? If it's a Big No No- I'm listening!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Nobili spiritus embiggens pequeño sparus tyre.
Joined
·
10,238 Posts
At least your hood prop works. That always helps. :D
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top