[BuckeyeTheDog]

I think I have it lined up correctly! I can spin it and it seems like it’s lined up consistently after spinning the crank.

But now when I start up, I hear a noticeable ticking. Uh oh. And it runs randomly, almost dying but then would rev up again.

Full disclosure, I am starting it without putting on all the drive belts, covers, engine mount, etc.

Fingers crossed.

 

[royalbiggster]

If you cranked it while it was out of alignment you could have bent valves, and now you are not getting compression in 1 or more of the cylinders.

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

Alright, so this how it is running.

Post timing belt install 2004 Honda Pilot

I installed a timing belt In a 2004 Honda Pilot, but it was a struggle. At one point, I think I may have jumped the timing by (possibly?) not pulling out th...

youtube.com

Oh boy. So how bad is that? Is that effectively the end of this engine? Any ideas?

(I have a working theory, but I am also inadequate experience and intuition.
I may have pulled the hydraulic tensioner pin but not wound the battery j bolt back, causing the timing on the rear cam to jump. Causing the valve to be bent.
I put no faith in that. You all would know better. But that is my gut feel right now.

If I bent a valve, I will be curious as to your advice on fixing that on a Pilot with 297 K. I don’t mind the work, but at some point, enough is enough.)

 

[royalbiggster]

Get a compression tool and see if you have a bad cylinder.

 

[royalbiggster]

Oh boy. So how bad is that? Is that effectively the end of this engine?

I'm dealing with bent valves myself on a odyssey I picked up for cheap. You have several options. Pulling the heads and having a machine shop fix them up $$$. You can replace the valves yourself, but it's a good idea to have a machine shop check your work. No telling what damage could have been done to the heads. I am currently changing my heads from a failed tensioner pulley that hammered the valves and the piston likely hammered on the heads through the bent valves. The valve head not seating correctly allowing the piston to transfer into the seat of the heads. At least that is what the pictures look like. I still have to open it up to verify. I ended up just going to the junkyard and searching for heads. I struck out 3 times before finding a decent one, and took me days and miles to get them, but only cost $180 total if you don't count the fuel and admission fees. Still no guarantee the heads you get will be good, and will want to have a machine shop look at them.
It's an involved job, and if you want to do it right, you will need new gaskets, head bolts, since you are removing so many things, you may be replacing broken (ones that you break) parts.
Another option would be a new-to-you engine. Either way you are looking at minimum $1K. If indeed this is what happened to you. There is a chance it is something else, but it's real hard to say without knowing exactly what it is that you did.
Was your timing off when you tried to crank it over? Did you have to re-align your marks?

 

[royalbiggster]

Curious. Did you pay attention to which way you installed this?

 

[royalbiggster]

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

Curious. Did you pay attention to which way you installed this?

Oh man, I don’t remember now.
is that supposed to go with the edge bending out or in? I know it’s on there and I was paying close attention, but now I am not remembering which way I installed it.

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

I watched this video a lot during this.

As a matter of fact, if I have bent valves, it might be because I screwed that battery J hook thing in, pulled the hydraulic tensioner pin but didn’t unscrew the J hook, causing it not to properly engage the hydraulic. Possibly anyways..

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

So, any thoughts on this video about replacing bent valves.
If I can pull the head and do this, I would probably go for it.

If I do a compression test, will that tell me if I have done damage to things beyond the valves, or is that (primarily) a likely about the valves?

thanks so much!

 

[royalbiggster]

A compression test will tell you there is an issue. It will not tell you if you have a bent valve. A cylinder leak down test after finding low/no compression in a cylinder will tell you why you have low compression. Again, it will not tell you if you have bent valves. Just if you have an issue with your valves, but it will allow you to verify there is an issue or not. If it is good compression we will need to look elsewhere as to why you are having issues. If you have low/no compression we can track down why you have low/no compression. It's a diagnostic tool to point you in the right direction. It's also good to see the health of your engine regardless.

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

A compression test will tell you there is an issue. It will not tell you if you have a bent valve. A cylinder leak down test after finding low/no compression in a cylinder will tell you why you have low compression. Again, it will not tell you if you have bent valves. Just if you have an issue with your valves, but it will allow you to verify there is an issue or not. If it is good compression we will need to look elsewhere as to why you are having issues. If you have low/no compression we can track down why you have low/no compression. It's a diagnostic tool to point you in the right direction. It's also good to see the health of your engine regardless.

Great. So check me in this, but my current plan (probably when I get back this weekend).
From rental tools…

• do a dry/wet compression test.
• do a leak down test
• if I can free-rent a boroscope, why not take a look?

if my cylinders are bad (say, significant air at the oil cap) at 297K, bless the car and send it to its grave. Not worth the effort, even tho it was running decently.

if the cylinders are decent to good, take out that head, replace the head gasket, replace any leaking valves, do a valve job, and re-assemble.

if I find that my problem is with cylinder 1 (the rear) and I’m going to try to pull the head, what is the point of view on replacing the front head gasket (“while I’m in there”). I don’t need extra work, but I don’t want to blow the front head gasket out ten days after doing the rear.

When I get to the tests, I will post results.
Right this second, the thing is going to the junkyard, so I might as well go as far as I can to save it. I can do the free labor if I keep parts cost down.

 

[royalbiggster]

I would research a lot before tackling the heads. There is a lot of little things to know. Such as do not touch the Head Gasket surface with your hands, measure Head Bolts to see if you can re-use. Torque difference between used/new head bolts, cleaning bolt holes, clean all matting surfaces without destroying them, and being able to remove all of the fasteners and their locations. It's a very involved job, and many pitfalls. The best tool for this job is knowledge, and 2nd would be prayers. There are a lot of things to get wrong.
I would do the compression tests. Triple Verify your timing belt job was 110% correct. This includes torqueing down all bolts, including spark plugs, aligning everything, and making sure it is indeed a bent valve issue from being misaligned, and your tensioner is full tension on the belt.
If everything is correct, and you are getting compression issues, pull your lower intake manifold, and you can see the intake valves. Check them real close for bent stems. This doesn't let you see the exhaust valves, but if you see bent intake valves, you will know for sure you have contact, and will need to replace the heads or engine. For some the engine is easier. Still a lot that can go wrong.

 

[WiiMaster]

Doing a wet/dry compression test can tell you some things. If the compression is low but goes up on the wet test, you have a ring-related issue, if it doesn't go up, then the issue is elsewhere, most likely with a valve given the circumstances.

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

Update from me…
Rented a compression tester from O’Reillys. I have just done the dry test.

Cylinder (Rear):
1: 0
2: 190
3: 180

Cylinder (Front):
4: 170
5: 170
6: 170

Honestly, I don’t even think I need to do the wet test, perhaps except for cylinder 1 It feels like I can move on to the cylinder leak down test on Number 1.
I’m actually encouraged.

What do you think? Should I do the wet test on just cylinder 1, all cylinders, or none, and why? Until then, I’m moving to the leak down tester on forlorn cylinder 1.

 

[royalbiggster]

Yeah, that 0 compression and it didn't leak to any other cylinder would indicate a valve. Unless you got a hole in the piston, which is very unlikely. I would still do the leak down test, but I'm about 99% sure it is a bent/burnt valve. Still that 1% chance that needs to be addressed.
I would remove the intake manifold and look down the lower intake manifold and see if it is the intake valve, and you can get eyes on it. If you plan on fixing it yourself. That is how I verified bent valves on my recent purchase. They were hammered pretty good.

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

Thanks and wow. What a clear bend on that valve!

Are either exhaust or intakes more likely to be bent?

Any tips on getting to that rear exhaust manifold?

Btw, I started the car for awhile to run a scan on it. After awhile, I could see my (front side of the?) catalytic converter was significantly smoking so I stopped the car. Any reason for the smoke? Anything I can and can’t do to make sure i don’t cause new issues?

thanks so much for your great help!

 

[BuckeyeTheDog]

Cylinder leak down test complete.

Definite noise coming from air intake.

Unsure about the exhaust. I don’t hear anything but I’m not 100% sure due to my noisy compressor.

No evidence of air coming through oil cap or dipstick tube.

No signs of bubbles, etc. in the anti-freeze.