[zroger73]

TSB 23-008 Product Update: PGM-FI Idle Stop Software Update (2016-2022)

BACKGROUND
Under certain circumstances, after coming to a stop and the idle stop feature engages, the vehicle may not automatically restart. Typically, the customer can immediately restart the vehicle by selecting Park and pushing the ENGINE START/STOP button.

CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION
Owners of affected vehicles will be sent a notification of this product update. Do an iN VIN status inquiry to verify eligibility. Some vehicles affected by this campaign may be in your new or used vehicle inventory. Repair these vehicles before they are sold.

CORRECTIVE ACTION
Update the PGM-FI Software. NOTE: The software update will decrease the Idle Stop operating range. As a result, the customer may notice reduced idle stop engagement when their vehicle’s battery is approaching the end of its useful life.

TSB 23-010 Warranty Extension: Engine Does Not Auto Restart After Entering Auto Idle Stop (2021-2022)

BACKGROUND
Under certain circumstances, after coming to a stop and engaging idle stop, the vehicle may not restart automatically due to excessive cylinder pressure and/or low cranking torque. Typically, the customer can immediately restart the vehicle by selecting Park and pressing the ENGINE START/STOP button. NOTE: If 23-008 Product Update: PGM-FI Idle Stop Software Update is applicable to the VIN, the PGM-FI software must be updated first before the warranty extension applies. Honda is extending the warranty coverage for valve adjustment to 10 years from the original date of purchase with no mileage limitation.

CUSTOMER NOTIFICATION
Owners of affected vehicles will be sent a notification of this campaign. Do an iN VIN status inquiry to verify eligibility.

CORRECTIVE ACTION
Adjust the valves.

 

[hokiefyd]

Thank you for that! It appears to be a product update and warranty extension, which probably explains why it doesn't appear on NHTSA's website or Honda's website as a safety recall.

 

[ls973800]

Honda is extending the warranty coverage for valve adjustment to 10 years from the original date of purchase with no mileage limitation.

I wonder if this would be the cause of the excessive cylinder pressure and/or low cranking torque mentioned as one reason the start/stop may not be able to restart the engine.

 

[WiiMaster]

Honda is extending the warranty coverage for valve adjustment to 10 years from the original date of purchase with no mileage limitation.

I wonder if this would be the cause of the excessive cylinder pressure and/or low cranking torque mentioned as one reason the start/stop may not be able to restart the engine.

That's exactly what the cause is according to Honda. They seem to be attacking two separate issues: a lack of restarting due to a weak battery and a lack of restarting due to excessive cylinder pressure and/or low cranking torque. The software update is to address the former, the valve adjustment is to address the latter.

 

[Kash80]

Is this for all vehicles in that age range or limited to certain VIN? As @hokiefyd mentioned, this recall is not showing up either on NHTSA or honda owner site. The dealer I purchased the vehicle from did send me an email for this recall. I have a '19 EX-L AWD and my vehicle doesn't have the start-stop system.

 

[zroger73]

This only applies to models with auto idle stop.

 

[mohsha]

Honda is extending the warranty coverage for valve adjustment to 10 years from the original date of purchase with no mileage limitation.

I wonder if this would be the cause of the excessive cylinder pressure and/or low cranking torque mentioned as one reason the start/stop may not be able to restart the engine.

Is the warranty extension only for 2021-2022 and not for earlier models?

 

[zroger73]

Correct.

 

[Cbayman]

The 2023 RL is included in the valve adjustment warranty extension but the 2023 PP is not included. I don’t understand why the 2023 PP would not be included.
This Honda tech claims if the valve clearances are too loose it can cause the no- start.

 

[hokiefyd]

The 2023 RL is included in the valve adjustment warranty extension but the 2023 PP is not included. I don’t understand why the 2023 PP would not be included.

I don't know how this works, so this is pure speculation. It's possible that the updated software was included in the 2023 Passport's design package, so it's got the updated calibrations from the factory. Perhaps the 2023 Ridgeline's final design package was already set prior to this new software having been developed. Maybe they start including it on 2023 Ridgelines as a rolling change...which is where the VIN would come into play -- Honda would know which 2023 Ridgelines have the new software (if in fact they are implementing that as a rolling change) and which do not.

I did look to see if the 2023 Passport has the new J35Y8 that the 2023 Pilot has, which makes valve adjustment a moot point (its valve lash is hydraulically adjusted). But, that doesn't appear to be the case...so it must be some other reason (perhaps as noted above).

 

[hokiefyd]

Note also that there's a part number for the software update (in the A23-008 bulletin linked above) for 2023 Ridgeline, but not for 2023 Passport, which further suggests to me that Honda determined this not to apply to 2023 Passport...I'm thinking it must already have the software update applied from the factory, but they didn't quite get it in place for some reason for 2023 Ridgeline.

 

[Cbayman]

Yes, it could be the SW change was implemented on the mfg line. I was referring to the valve adjustment warranty extension.

 

[hokiefyd]

Yes, it could be the SW change was implemented on the mfg line. I was referring to the valve adjustment warranty extension.

It's not immediately clear to me why, but a prerequisite to the warranty extension is the software update having been applied. So they're not going to give the warranty extension on a particular vehicle unless the software update is applied first. It almost seems that Honda is saying the old software is actually leading to valves needing to be adjusted early. That doesn't make much sense...but that sort of seems to be the way the logic is laid out here.

And if that really crazy notion is correct, and if 2023 Passport already has the new software in the build sequence and none of them were ever built with the old software...that could be why 2023 Passport doesn't have the warranty extension.

 

[zroger73]

I think that's just Honda's way to get out of paying for a valve adjustment when a software update might be all that is required. If software and hardware could both cause the problem, it makes sense to try the software fix first before moving on to a more expensive hardware solution.

 

[enisad]

so....had my software update on Tuesday and so far idle stop does not engage at all, which is not a bad thing. I was a fan of idle stop but last year and a half it wouldn't start the car when it was very hot outside and A/C was on and now in the winter it does more often when the heater is on. My Battery is only 3 years old and tested twice

 

[HondaGreg]

Hi everyone,
new here. I didn't know this was a thing until I booked for service and saw there was some sort of recall. I always disable my start stop on my Pilot. Just never made sense to me.

 

[hokiefyd]

I had our 2022 Pilot to the dealer yesterday for this and, so far, I haven't noticed much difference in how often the system will stop the engine. I always disable it if I remember before a drive, and I left it enabled yesterday afternoon on the drive home and running some errands to see if I could tell any difference and, as it did before the software update, it offered to stop the engine for me about every time I came to a full stop (with the message on the screen telling me to press the brake to stop the engine).

 

[samfd]

My 2019 touring crashed while the dealership was doing the update. Hope they figure out what went wrong soon.

 

[Karl2020]

Had my 2020 Pilot in at the dealer for a new battery. They told me I had an open recall so they applied the TSB.

 

[wcomo2]

Brought my 2019 Pilot Elite in for the hood latch recall and they told me I also needed this software update, and now the auto stop won't engage at all. Anyone else have this issue and know what the solution is? I had a 35 minute ride home on the the highway so would have thought if the battery was low that would have been enough to recharge it and it would have worked by the time I was near home. Worked flawlessly before this update. Is there a way to check that my VIN should have been included?