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Hello, everyone.
I'm getting my Pilot EX this weekend. Sagebrush. Wood trim and all.

Anyways, Is or is not Traction Control available with the Pilot ? Edmunds says Traction Control is standard, while the Honda website says that Traction Control is not available (on their SUV comparison page). So what's the deal ? And how much difference does it make ?

Thanks,
Santosh.
 

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Nope

Does not have it (Does not need it, in my opinion)


Traction control typically brakes a spinning wheel to minimize differences in wheel speed.
The VTM-4 system seesm to fix that problem by not haveing a differential in the rear.
 

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VTM may help when going forward, but doesn't help when going sideways. I've been in cars with traction control, and the driver demonstrated that it is almost impossible to get the car loose sideways. Most uncontrolled or emergency situations involve the car going sideways. In my opinion, it is a great safety feature.
 

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I Agree With N Jay

I've had the honor of being in a couple of situations where the VTM-4 kicked in (I think-because it operates without you really knowing about it).

I've also tried on several occassions to get my PILOT to slip, slide, anything and the VTM-4 works great!!!!

So, I'm not sure if a traction-control system is necessarily needed for the PILOT.



PILOTininCO
Sagebrush Pearl-EX
Parker, CO
 

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I agree. I had a slippery situation the other day, and the Pilot straightened right back on the road without me even moving the steering wheel.. VTM works great!

rob
 

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Ferdball said:
VTM may help when going forward, but doesn't help when going sideways.
Traction control will not help you once ytou are going sidways.

There are two reasons you end up going sideways;
1) You exceeded the traction of the tires in that direction.
Nothing will help.
2) The tire lost traction in the normal direction and then slides to the side.
Since VTM-4 should help you from spinning or locking a wheel it should be very close to what traction control does in this situation.
 

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More Affirmation... (as I mentioned in a previous post after receiving 1+feet of snow), the VTM4 tenaciously is determined to keep this vehicle tracking straight
 

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From the descriptions and animations I've seen on various car manufacturing web sites (no I've never tried to test both) it looks like "stability control" is more to control the car if skid conditions are present (or skidding occurs) - especially on a curve and at all speeds - by braking the rear wheel opposite the skid direction. Stability control is meant to be a safety feature and works on 2-wheel (front and rear) and 4-wheel drive vehicles.

The Pilot's VTM (variable torque management) allows the front wheel drive vehicle to act like an all wheel drive for the purpose of gaining traction at low speeds (getting unstuck) and for accelerating and keeping traction at all speeds without the need for a transfer case. In fact, the drive shaft running to the rear axle turns constantly, so when one of the rear wheels is activated, the torque applied is quick and automatic, helping to maintain traction and avoid skid situations. It's also nice that only the necessary amount of tourge is applied to necessary rear tire or tires.

But 4-wheel drive will not help when you are at moderate to high speeds and start to skid. Yes, skidding can occur with stability control and VTM, but once you start to skid only ABS or "intelligent braking" like stability control can help.

Both stability control ("intelligent breaking") and VTM ("intelligent torque management") can help prevent skidding, but they do it differently and to different degrees.

The Honda cars site lists VTM in the engineering section, not the safety section, so I don't think even Honda is trying to claim VTM is for anti-skid even if it helps reduce/prevent skidding. VTM is mainly to "get you going" and to reduce the chance of skids, not to control them once they occur...that's when you need stability control.

I agree that VTM is more versatile, but stability control may ultimately be a better safety feature. I wouldn't recommend anyone to really test the VTM for skid control on a highway at 60+ mph.
 

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Traction Control / Stability Control

People are referring to two seperate things. The Pilot has Traction Control, but it does not have Stability Control.

Traction Control gives you more traction in slippery conditions (especially starting out and at lower speeds).

Stability Control keeps the vehicle from losing direction and spinning out.
 

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Actually the Pilot does not have Traction Control..
(I hope I am wrong!) Does not mention it in the broucher and Manuel, but it does mention it on the Odyssey 2002...(under body and suspension in the broucher)


rob
 

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Oops

Yes, you are so right, "stability control" is the correct term for the new generation of anit-skid ABS systems (includes yaw sensors and brake control).
But is "traction control" really the same as the "variable torque management" system that the Pilot has?

I think traction control is just for accelerating on 2-wheel and 4-wheel vehicles. It prevents the driven wheels from spinning out of control by applying the break to the "loose spinning" wheel (prevents wheel spin during accleration).

VTM seems to be more of a "apply more power where needed".

Stability control is the next generation of ABS + traction control + skid control.

This article seems to explain the differences. http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/45992/article.html
 

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Re: Oops

tim.s said:
Yes, you are so right, "stability control" is the correct term for the new generation of anit-skid ABS systems (includes yaw sensors and brake control).
But is "traction control" really the same as the "variable torque management" system that the Pilot has?

I think traction control is just for accelerating on 2-wheel and 4-wheel vehicles. It prevents the driven wheels from spinning out of control by applying the break to the "loose spinning" wheel (prevents wheel spin during accleration).

VTM seems to be more of a "apply more power where needed".

Stability control is the next generation of ABS + traction control + skid control.

This article seems to explain the differences. http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/45992/article.html
Most car manufacturers list Traction Control and Stability Control as two seperate things. Vehicles have had Traction Control for years. Stability Control is something more recent (originally developed by Bosch?)
 

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This also from hondanews.com regarding the Vehicle Stability Assist feature on the MDX:

For enhanced control during acceleration, cornering, and sudden collision-avoidance maneuvers, the 2003 MDX is equipped with a standard 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system that works in conjunction with the VTM-4, drive-by-wire and ABS systems. The VSA system enhances vehicle stability by applying brake force to each of the MDXs four disc brakes independently while also managing the throttle and ignition systems. An additional benefit is the limited-slip differential effect the system provides for the front wheels by applying braking force to a slipping wheel thereby redirecting driving force to the wheel with more traction.

Analyzing data that is constantly received from eight vehicle sensors monitoring speed, steering input and lateral G forces, the VSA system compares the driver's control inputs with the vehicle's actual response. If the actual response is outside a predicted response range - as can happen when cornering forces exceed the tires' performance capabilities - VSA automatically intervenes with an appropriate corrective action. In the case of oversteer, VSA applies braking to the outside front and rear wheels to counter the unintended yawing effect. If understeer is detected, VSA applies braking to the inside front and rear wheels and reduces engine power to help bring the car back onto the driver's intended course.

The VSA system in the MDX has been carefully calibrated to add handling stability and predictability without intruding on the process of spirited driving. Whenever the system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability, an indicator light flashes on the instrument panel. In addition, VSA's stability enhancement and traction control can be turned off with a cockpit switch while still leaving the Anti-lock Braking System fully functional.
 

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OK, after reading all the replys on this thread and what Ferdball had to say about VSA on the MDX what I'm wondering is:

Does the VTM-4 on the Pilot do anything to help prevent rollover?
 

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Rainbowslim said:
Does the VTM-4 on the Pilot do anything to help prevent rollover?
Here's what Honda says about VTM:
The VTM-4™ electronic control unit (ECU) constantly monitors speed and road conditions. When cruising or braking, the Pilot operates in front-wheel-drive only for maximum fuel efficiency. When accelerating, however, the VTM-4 ECU detects wheelspin before it happens. The ECU then calculates the best power split between the front and rear axles and engages 4-wheel drive.
By rollover, I assume you mean during emergency steering or skidding (curves, etc..). I don't think VTM helps here because it transfers torque to the rear wheels to prevent front wheelspin when accelerating, not something you typically need when trying to stop or evade.

To reduce skidding and rollover, we'd need a stability control something like the VSA system on the MDX.

On a good point, the Pilot and the MDX are now considered the safest in their class.
 

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I put my Pilot in a side slide (on purpose) and it recovered very easily.

After the 8 inch snowfall back in December, I found an empty intersection and wide road with hard packed snow and some ice patches. I made a fairly sharp right turn onto the wide road and gave it too much gas to see how it would react. As I rounded the bend, the back end slid out to the left as expected. I kept increasing the gas and turned the wheel slightly to the left. The back end stayed out at about 15 to 25 degrees until I let up on the gas (about 60 feet). As soon as I backed off, the back end straightened out immediately with no oversteering, understeering, or any other problem.

NOTE: This is not the standard way that Pilots handle. I did this on purpose to see what would happen. It was a controlled test on an open road. I almost put the pedal to the floor, which is not what you should do in snow and ice. No one should drive this way. (I hope this satisfies all the lawyers out there! :) )
 

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BINGO!!!

And to go FURTHER, as in the Volvo XC-90, you'd need to correct for motion AROUND the horizontal plane. Real question as to how much correction is possible WITHOUT some sort of "active center of gravity" system that would move MASS, not just effect the 'torque moment' as determined by acceleration/steering/braking.



tim.s said:
By rollover, I assume you mean during emergency steering or skidding (curves, etc..). I don't think VTM helps here because it transfers torque to the rear wheels to prevent front wheelspin when accelerating, not something you typically need when trying to stop or evade.

To reduce skidding and rollover, we'd need a stability control something like the VSA system on the MDX.

On a good point, the Pilot and the MDX are now considered the safest in their class.
 

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VTM4

I think VTM4 and traction control are two different drive mechanisms in the Pilot.

Traction control normally runs at 80/20, front/rear. When a wheel loses traction the system moves the power to the wheels with traction.

VTM4 must be mechanically engaged. I believe it locks up all four wheels and delivers equal power at each corner. It essentially overrides traction control while it's on.

It disengages around 18 mph so the drive train won't be torn up (no differential).

It must be for those days when you're up to the mirrors in mud?
 

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Except traction control also applies the break to the wheel loosing traction to prevent free spinning - works on 2 and 4 wheel drive vehicles

from edmunds.com
After Bosch perfected ABS, the company moved on to the second "building block" — traction control. Sometimes referred to as ASR traction control (the ASR stands for "Acceleration Slip Regulation" and typically referees to systems appearing in German cars), the technology works in a similar fashion to ABS, but at the opposite end of the performance spectrum. Whereas ABS focuses on eliminating lock-up in braking situations, traction control regulates wheelspin during acceleration. In other words, when speeding from a standing stop or while in motion, a driver may give too much accelerator input, causing the wheels to spin freely. In such cases, traction control monitors wheel speed, cuts engine power or even applies the brakes to optimize contact between the tires and the road surface.
The VTM lock sets the torque evenly (50/50) to the front and rear.
When the VTM is not locked in, the torque is applied automatically to either or both rear wheels as needed.

I not trying to be an expert, but rather this info is quoted from Hondacars.com, Edmunds.com and others.

The question was if traction control was on the Pilot and I don't think the VTM qualifies as "traction control" by industry standards. But rather VTM is a nifty "auto-all wheel drive" which doesn't require a heavy transfer case or extra shifting (i.e., more robust and fewer troubles than AWD or 4WD).
 
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