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Well, folks after see Toyota 4Runner hit the pole right between the driver and the rear passenger last week I cannot imagine how can the rear passenger survive.
I came home make a quick to a place where they Modify Auto body and order 4 pieces of Titanium Door Beam to replace factory one for $359.00 each plus installation $1736.00. They guarantee 60MPH direct hit will never bend the Titanium. I have two kids.....hope you understand why I spend almost two grand.
 

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That titanium beam will be welded to the steel frame right? Don't you think the steel cage will bend when hit? Further compromising the safety cage.

I think they design the vehicle to crumple to absorb the force. Another concern is: Is there a way to securely weld titanium to steel?

I'm all for safety, mind you. I'm just not sure how this will improve safety.
 

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That titanium beam will be welded to the steel frame right? Don't you think the steel cage will bend when hit? Further compromising the safety cage.

I think they design the vehicle to crumple to absorb the force. Another concern is: Is there a way to securely weld titanium to steel?

I'm all for safety, mind you. I'm just not sure how this will improve safety.
 

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Res-Pilot said:
Well, folks after see Toyota 4Runner hit the pole right between the driver and the rear passenger last week I cannot imagine how can the rear passenger survive.
I came home make a quick to a place where they Modify Auto body and order 4 pieces of Titanium Door Beam to replace factory one for $359.00 each plus installation $1736.00. They guarantee 60MPH direct hit will never bend the Titanium. I have two kids.....hope you understand why I spend almost two grand.
BIG WASTE OF MONEY. Cancel your order. No way the titanium door beams are stronger than the steel ones unless they are way larger than the original ones. Steel is far stronger of a metal than steel. Look it up. Titanium is mainly used in engineering applications because it has a very high strength to weight ratio, so you get a lot of strength with minimal weight.

Don't mean to be harsh. Just trying to get more people to understand that titanium isn't the all super strength material that many people seem to think it is.
 

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side curtain airbags-aftermarket???Where??

I don't think the Titanium will improve the safety.It is mainly high strength to weight-not high strength to volume -which is the real concern.Besides,it is probably designed to bend a bit to take up a bit of the crash energy.If it doesn't bend,then whatever it is attached to will intrude further into the passenger space.For the same price,you can have a much stronger steel beam,with a bit more flex(probably a plus).The few pounds saved-no more than 5-10 per beam,would be of no consequence on a 4400 lb vehicle.
I wish there was an aftermarket company that made side curtain airbags.A torso can take a pretty good " blunt hit" since it can compress,but a head-brain can't take the abrupt change in velocity of several hundred g's as well.I would certainly pay $2000 for side curtain airbags.Does anyone know of an aftermarket installer of them??.Thanks,Charlie PS I am considering a Sequoia(a real gas guzzler that sits up too high) for just that reason.
 

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If you want safety that bad, trade your pilot for an H2. Or even better H1. It takes hit from a semi much better than pilot. But I don't think you should go for M1A1, that's a bit too far.:eek:
 

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Res-Pilot said:
.....hope you understand why I spend almost two grand.
It's your money. But designing safety into a vehicle, testing it, and redesigning is engineering. Modifying it is usually educated guesswork. They're titanium beams, not "magic" beams. JMHO
 

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Res-Pilot said:
...They guarantee 60MPH direct hit will never bend the Titanium...
A 60mph impact from what sized object? The mass of the object is definitely a factor and they could be quoting an impact from some unrealistic object. You should probably research their product claims before investing.

If properly designed so the beams translate the impact force to the roof and floor of the vehicle (or some other crumple zone), then they might be worth something.

But if the door simply gets pushed into the passenger compartment at 60mph because it doesn't flex or bend, then that would be a problem.

I spent a summer helping to test the design of state and federal highway guard rails during moderate and high speed car crashes. The guard rails which were too stiff would generate enough acceleration to kill the occupant of the vehicle even during a 30 degree impact.

It's not just how fast you are going, it's how fast you change direction or how fast you stop (i.e., dangerous accelerations).
 

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The modification required to install the titanium beams will probably make the vehicle weaker than it was to start with.

At least Honda has to meet federal side impact standards, the company that installs aftermarket beams has no standards that they have to meet.

Bad move in my opinion.
 

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bicycle helmets for kids-Curtain airbags 2004?

I can certainly understand your concern for your kids,especially after seeing what was left of the 4 runner.I did a quick search for aftermarket airbag installers-no luck-no surprise-the controls for same would take a lot of research($$$),and the liability factor would scare most reputable companies off.
Now,I am not kidding in suggesting having the kids wear very light bicycle helmets.The styrofoam like "padding" in the helmets would decrease the decel. a bit,and the hard shell would decrease the likelyhood of a penetration.This would be a lot cheaper than the Titanium beams-probably more effective.The downside is obvious-getting the kids to wear them.If my son was young-3-10,I could probably force him to wear it;maybe even make a game of it.My kid is 17,so no way.A motorcycle helmet,or a race car helmet would be even better,but it would be way too heavy and bulky to wear in a car.
Yeah,this is a bit lame because it would be very hard to get the kids to wear it,but another idea(attaching a 1-2" layer of crushable foam around the interior of the car at about head level) is even more of a non starter-too ugly.Luck,Charlie PS Any idea if Honda will equipt the 2004 Pilot with side curtain airbags??
 

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Re: bicycle helmets for kids-Curtain airbags 2004?

charlie said:
Now,I am not kidding in suggesting having the kids wear very light bicycle helmets.The styrofoam like "padding" in the helmets would decrease the decel. a bit,and the hard shell would decrease the likelyhood of a penetration.This would be a lot cheaper than the Titanium beams-probably more effective.The downside is obvious-getting the kids to wear them.If my son was young-3-10,I could probably force him to wear it;maybe even make a game of it.My kid is 17,so no way.A motorcycle helmet,or a race car helmet would be even better,but it would be way too heavy and bulky to wear in a car.?
Wearing helmets in a car is not a good idea. Even a lightweight helmet increases the weight of the child's head, which would probably increase head excursion (the distance the head moves in a crash), which leads to increased injuries. For kids 8-9 and younger, check out the Britax seats I linked to in my previous post - these provide a layer of EPS foam (the same kind used in bike helmets) that wraps around the head.

Res-Pilot, I commend your desire to make your kids as safe as possible, but I agree that these titanium beams are probably a bad idea.
 

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helmet weight-certainly not advantage

Tracy,I can't argue that the helmet weight is an advantage-it isn't-and helmet weight and its attendant problems is the main argument against MC helmets.I also agree that a young child neck is less able to resist the movement.However,if you are in the side seat on the impact side of the crash,your head will whip sideways until it hits the window,the side of the car,or maybe the top of your shoulder-maybe all three.the kid in the middle will probably hit the kid next to him,same for the kid on the offside lateral seat.
Hard to know if the bike helmets are a plus-I would guess they were,even in the youngest kids.They are really light-my large Bell is just 316 grams,I would guess a kids helmet could be less than 200 grams-much less than a 10% increase in head weight(granted it is weight added high which is more significant).
Of course it is moot,since a seat that incorporated the bike foam would be a much better solution.Very Tough to get kids to wear them when they are biking,so in a car...?.
The seats sound like a real winner.The Titanium beams,I would pass on.Luck,Charlie
 

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Discussion Starter #14
You all are correct!!! I love this forum

:D You guys are the best when come to knowledge and understanding of the safety.
Well, it come down to misunderstanding between me and the manager when I call two days ago. But, when I came by the shop as soon as he saw the Pilot he started to say NO!!! he stated he don't Mod on this kind of SUV, he only work on an Off-Road 4X4.
He also misunderstanding about Pilot, he think it was another type of Honda Pilot, and I don't even know what other Honda Pilot.
And he stated don't compare Pilot with 4Runner, Pilot do have it own Steel Beam and 4Runn don't. So I think we in a safer SUV. To me I will spend any kind of $$ if to save life, especially my kids
 

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There is a 4 ATV wheeler Pilot

Oh,that Pilot!There is a 4 wheeler ATV type Pilot.I think it was made in the late 80's by the Honda MC division.Guess we were slandering this honest business owner.
Tracy's(I think it was Tracy) seat with the foam idea sounds like a real winner.Lot cheaper than $2k also.Charlie
 

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Re: You all are correct!!! I love this forum

Res-Pilot said:
:D You guys are the best when come to knowledge and understanding of the safety.
Well, it come down to misunderstanding between me and the manager when I call two days ago. But, when I came by the shop as soon as he saw the Pilot he started to say NO!!! he stated he don't Mod on this kind of SUV, he only work on an Off-Road 4X4.
He also misunderstanding about Pilot, he think it was another type of Honda Pilot, and I don't even know what other Honda Pilot.
And he stated don't compare Pilot with 4Runner, Pilot do have it own Steel Beam and 4Runn don't. So I think we in a safer SUV. To me I will spend any kind of $$ if to save life, especially my kids
I'm glad we could all help.

Here is the "other" Honda Pilot the guy was thinking of.:D
 

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I believe this is 1985-1990 Honda Pilot.
And they have a door beam for 60mph side impact? Funny!
 
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