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whats the typical price you guys are paying per gallon for Honda blue?
From what I've read here on the forum, roughly $15 + shipping or $20 walk in.
 

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In reply to this this post...
new engine noise 06 pilot sport
I don't have anything negative to say about the protection that Honda 50/50 blue gives. I've experienced the very same thing. But I've also experienced the same result with $8.97 per gallon Prestone Concentrate, mixed with 99¢ per gallon distilled water. This pump has 71k miles on it and is smooth as silk. The TB WP job came early because of the need to reseal the oil pump and pan. This 2012 V6 engine has been on Prestone green for about 120k miles.
141553
 

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FWIW, the factory fill coolant for my Pilot was green.
Shouldn't you go blue since that's the latest greatest thing? Surely it's better than that old green stuff they put in your Pilot all those years ago.
 

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In reply to this this post...
new engine noise 06 pilot sport
I don't have anything negative to say about the protection that Honda 50/50 blue gives. I've experienced the very same thing. But I've also experienced the same result with $8.97 per gallon Prestone Concentrate, mixed with 99¢ per gallon distilled water. This pump has 71k miles on it and is smooth as silk. The TB WP job came early because of the need to reseal the oil pump and pan. This 2012 V6 engine has been on Prestone green for about 120k miles.
View attachment 141553
If you really cared about you cooling system you would be using a 50/50 mix of coolant and either totally pure deionized water, or truly softened water. Both of these waters are devoid of calcium and magnesium.

Of course you can't just go into Walmart and buy pure deionized water or truly softened water so that does become somewhat of a draw back.
 

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If you really cared about you cooling system you would be using a 50/50 mix of coolant and either totally pure deionized water, or truly softened water. Both of these waters are devoid of calcium and magnesium.

Of course you can't just go into Walmart and buy pure deionized water or truly softened water so that does become somewhat of a draw back.
I'd assume my good old grocery store distilled water would be ok. Distilled water is only truly distilled if it's mineral free?
 

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I'd assume my good old grocery store distilled water would be ok. Distilled water is only truly distilled if it's mineral free?
No, distilled water will still contain small amounts of calcium. Calcium is a weird metal because as the temperature increases, unlike other contaminants, the solubility decreases. In other words the hotter the water, the more scale build up will take place. So, distilled water is indeed better than tap water, but it will still, over time cause scale build up.

In the real world you would be needing to add water on a weekly basis to pass enough distilled water through the cooling system to have any significant amount of scaling. But there are still people in this world that would rather add water every few days than pay to fix a leaking cooling system.

Keep in mind that distilling water is a lot like distilling shine. For distilled water common tap water is most often used and then distilled in a similar steam distillation process. Just like you never get pure 100 Proof shine, the distilled water will have some minerals left, just in much smaller amounts. Calcium is one of them.
 

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No, distilled water will still contain small amounts of calcium. Calcium is a weird metal because as the temperature increases, unlike other contaminants, the solubility decreases. In other words the hotter the water, the more scale build up will take place. So, distilled water is indeed better than tap water, but it will still, over time cause scale build up.

In the real world you would be needing to add water on a weekly basis to pass enough distilled water through the cooling system to have any significant amount of scaling. But there are still people in this world that would rather add water every few days than pay to fix a leaking cooling system.

Keep in mind that distilling water is a lot like distilling shine. For distilled water common tap water is most often used and then distilled in a similar steam distillation process. Just like you never get pure 100 Proof shine, the distilled water will have some minerals left, just in much smaller amounts. Calcium is one of them.
Thank you for the info. Just seem odd that if anything else were in my distilled water it would say it.
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No, distilled water will still contain small amounts of calcium. Calcium is a weird metal because as the temperature increases, unlike other contaminants, the solubility decreases. In other words the hotter the water, the more scale build up will take place. So, distilled water is indeed better than tap water, but it will still, over time cause scale build up.

In the real world you would be needing to add water on a weekly basis to pass enough distilled water through the cooling system to have any significant amount of scaling. But there are still people in this world that would rather add water every few days than pay to fix a leaking cooling system.

Keep in mind that distilling water is a lot like distilling shine. For distilled water common tap water is most often used and then distilled in a similar steam distillation process. Just like you never get pure 100 Proof shine, the distilled water will have some minerals left, just in much smaller amounts. Calcium is one of them.
151212

Instructions on the back of the bottle.
 

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so I am curious about this mostly from a physics/chemistry standpoint, along wtih the super exciting convos of all the piloteers on here.

I think you're saying that even in vaporized H2O, steam, there are molecules of calcium? I ain't a pro but it does seem that it can't be enough to cause scale unless you reversed the process with the same volumes that removed the minerals, which must be thousands of gallons? And according to quick google search, distilled IS just hydrogen and oxygen. But that maybe is just theoretical, I guess?

So then, is there any way to get all minerals out of water? Or is that theoretical too? I mean, the searches have medical papers about how you shouldn't drink distilled water because you don't get magnesium and calcium...
 

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The label @Nail Grease provided said it also undergoes RO and ozonation. RO should also be acting to remove minerals and other impurities from the water.

I get that it's hard to be 100% but that water should be pretty darn pure and like boss man @Daltongang said it would take years of draining and filling weekly to cause any noticeable buildup.

I've always used DI water when I bought concentrate, I feel more justified now. I will continue to buy the 50/50 for convenience as much as I can though.
 

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The label @Nail Grease provided said it also undergoes RO and ozonation. RO should also be acting to remove minerals and other impurities from the water.

I get that it's hard to be 100% but that water should be pretty darn pure and like boss man @Daltongang said it would take years of draining and filling weekly to cause any noticeable buildup.

I've always used DI water when I bought concentrate, I feel more justified now. I will continue to buy the 50/50 for convenience as much as I can though.
Certainly, the more pure the water, the better. Grocery store distilled water is far purer than tap. I'd have to give some credit to the coolant to be able to protect the internals from the minut traces of mineral that might be in the system.
 

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so I am curious about this mostly from a physics/chemistry standpoint, along wtih the super exciting convos of all the piloteers on here.

I think you're saying that even in vaporized H2O, steam, there are molecules of calcium? I ain't a pro but it does seem that it can't be enough to cause scale unless you reversed the process with the same volumes that removed the minerals, which must be thousands of gallons? And according to quick google search, distilled IS just hydrogen and oxygen. But that maybe is just theoretical, I guess?

So then, is there any way to get all minerals out of water? Or is that theoretical too? I mean, the searches have medical papers about how you shouldn't drink distilled water because you don't get magnesium and calcium....
Can you get Pure water made up from only Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules? Yes, in a lab, but pure water consisting only hydrogen and oxygen molecules is also dangerous to humans. It could kill you if you drank it. It is also a much more difficult process to end up with truly pure water entirely composed of only hydrogen and oxygen molecules.

This is the same reason that distilled water is not suitable for continual drinking. Drinking only distilled water will not only not replace leach necessary minerals mainly calcium and magnesium in can change the balance of electrolytes, fluid, minerals and pH of your body. In moderation distilled water can be consumed but only as part of a healthy diet.

Natural water contains impurities. Even the water you are drinking contains acceptable amount of impurities. They are measured in parts per million or Milligrams per liter. The two are equivalent. There are acceptable levels of various containment's in what we would call pure drinking water for the levels are so low as to be harmless when consumed.

The boiling point of water we all know is 100C or 212F. The boiling point of ethanol, grain alcohol, is 78.37C or 171.3F. When distilling alcohol you want to keep the temperature above 171.3F but below 212F, the point at which water turns to steam. Even so, you still end up with a small amount of water in distilled alcohol. That is due to vaporization. Water can vaporize, depending on other conditions from a temperature of 0C on up. The same reason we see our breath in the winter.

Water vapor can carry other impurities that are at a microscopic level, but so can steam. Distilled water like natural water will contain impurities, but at a far lower level than natural water. Those impurities would be measured in Parts Per Million. Notice that for distilled water then is no 100% contaminant removal with the exception of a couple of biological contaminants.

151237


Yes you are correct, you would need to be refilling the cooling system with gallons upon gallons of distilled water to achieve the same amount of potential scaling as with tap water.

Just don't tell Nail Grease that. We like to try and keep him on his toes around here. 🤣
 

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DI (deionized) water that's been through RO and resin bed cleaning is darn pure but starved for ions (sort of the definition...), and is not good for aluminum engines and cooling systems without some further treatment steps. Stay with the grocery store distilled stuff. It may be steam distilled or RO and polished, but won't be trying to harvest aluminum from the cooling system. Carryover calcium is easily captured by the coolant additives.


The garage has mostly aluminum-engine cars in it. The "expert recommendations" from various support groups varies a lot, some from armchair experts and some from folks who have experienced long-term cooling system damage after someone made a poor choice in the car's past. Of course, trying to accurately determine the mistake(s) and specific effects is not a lot more than speculation really. Unless one knows the complete history, it's hard to put a finger on mystery causes of damage. Only three of the cars have been owned or known since new, and therefor have full documented cooling service history, for what that's worth.

Perhaps the common recommendations for most owners is that there's virtually no risk with using the pre-diluted coolants intended for a specific car. For the Pilot, you can save a few $ and trade that for the need to buy both coolant concentrate and magic water for a service. I keep up to a dozen gallons or so of distilled water on the shelf, restock at six, and use it for cleaning and detailing chores on the cars, coolant dilution on a few of them, and as a mini emergency drinking water stash. Even with that, I bought a couple gallons of Honda coolant for the recent Pilot service. Drained the system, rinsed with distilled water, drained again, and in went the new premixed coolant.

The coolant that came out had a pH of 8.4 at about three years and less than 10k miles actual service since last replacement, and was replaced by new with pH of about 9. In the other cars that also use HOAT coolants, I change them when pH drops below 8.5 or so. The Honda maintenance recommendation has coolant replaced on a 120k schedule with no time specified. Meanwhile, the additive package deteriorates based on time and temperature; the 120k schedule has no consideration for the 'time when the engine isn't running' component. For cars like mine that are not anywhere close to daily drivers, an integrated pH and time-based replacement program makes more sense than a pure mileage-based schedule. The Maintenance Minder doesn't have a clock or calendar integrated with the miles for determining maintenance needs for anything, so things like the timing belt and coolant maintenance schedules need to have the time component integrated manually by the owners. Testing coolant pH in the radiator is a simple exercise with cheap test strips, and it's super easy to add the test to your oil service efforts.
 

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The Maintenance Minder doesn't have a clock or calendar integrated with the miles for determining maintenance needs for anything, so things like the timing belt and coolant maintenance schedules need to have the time component integrated manually by the owners. Testing coolant pH in the radiator is a simple exercise with cheap test strips, and it's super easy to add the test to your oil service efforts.
I would respectfully disagree with this statement regarding Hondas from 2019 forward. I say this based upon experience with a 2020 Passport Touring purchased and delivered February 1, 2020.

March of 2020 the world changed and being a retired old fart the brand spanking new Passport had very few mile put on it. By mid December 2020 with a whopping 3000 miles on the odometer I got a 15% oil life message. I had noticed, with the little driving I did during that time that the oil life was steady going down month to month.

For oil life, I will argue that there is a time component in the MM. There is no other reason that my oil life would have steadily declined month after month, some months with only around 20 miles put on the vehicle, for the oil life expectancy to have changed if there was not a calendar component. It matched Hondas maintenance schedule recommendation of changing the oil at least Once a Year.

As for the coolant system, Honda may have a long coolant life expectancy. Me I change it every 3-4 years just to be proactive. A few dollars and an hours time is worth it to me when it comes to the cooling system. One thing I have noticed is that by doing this, I have NEVER had a stuck thermostat that had to be changed or a thermostat problem at all. Is it the coolant changes or am I just lucky? I don't know and I don't care.
 

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Can you get Pure water made up from only Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules? Yes, in a lab, but pure water consisting only hydrogen and oxygen molecules is also dangerous to humans. It could kill you if you drank it. It is also a much more difficult process to end up with truly pure water entirely composed of only hydrogen and oxygen molecules.

This is the same reason that distilled water is not suitable for continual drinking. Drinking only distilled water will not only not replace leach necessary minerals mainly calcium and magnesium in can change the balance of electrolytes, fluid, minerals and pH of your body. In moderation distilled water can be consumed but only as part of a healthy diet.

Natural water contains impurities. Even the water you are drinking contains acceptable amount of impurities. They are measured in parts per million or Milligrams per liter. The two are equivalent. There are acceptable levels of various containment's in what we would call pure drinking water for the levels are so low as to be harmless when consumed.

The boiling point of water we all know is 100C or 212F. The boiling point of ethanol, grain alcohol, is 78.37C or 171.3F. When distilling alcohol you want to keep the temperature above 171.3F but below 212F, the point at which water turns to steam. Even so, you still end up with a small amount of water in distilled alcohol. That is due to vaporization. Water can vaporize, depending on other conditions from a temperature of 0C on up. The same reason we see our breath in the winter.

Water vapor can carry other impurities that are at a microscopic level, but so can steam. Distilled water like natural water will contain impurities, but at a far lower level than natural water. Those impurities would be measured in Parts Per Million. Notice that for distilled water then is no 100% contaminant removal with the exception of a couple of biological contaminants.

View attachment 151237

Yes you are correct, you would need to be refilling the cooling system with gallons upon gallons of distilled water to achieve the same amount of potential scaling as with tap water.

Just don't tell Nail Grease that. We like to try and keep him on his toes around here. 🤣
You had me going there. Thanks.
151241
 

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The Honda maintenance recommendation has coolant replaced on a 120k schedule with no time specified.
What is the source of your statement that the "Honda maintenance recommendation has coolant replaced on a 120k schedule"?
 

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Daltongang --

I'm with you on later cars having a better MM algorithm. "It's about time!" seems like the perfect statement. Meanwhile, the 2012-2015 Pilots, the focus of this forum, sadly do not consider that feature in the MM. It's improving with every new generation. Diagnostics on my next one will likely be TPMS and a voltmeter, displayed on a pocket device.

For most owners, the calculated MM oil change schedule is typically adequate. With reduced pandemic driving for many, maybe that "MM or annual" change interval is better than just running until the minder sez it's time. Ditto the belt and coolant. For the coolant, pH happens to be a handy and accurate way to decide when to avoid internal aluminum damage. For me, your 3-4 year coolant change interval is comfortable, with similar results as you describe. The pH test validates the recommendation. Will folks be OK with 120k per the factory schedule? For the "average" driver, 120k will happen to the second or third owner, about when the car is maybe 8 years old. For us low-miles long-term owners, the time gets stretched if we follow miles only. In my case, I probably won't live long enough to put 120k on our Pilot.

I'm that same old fart, albeit only three times now almost semi-retired. Focus on the old fart part, add in lazy, and the perspective will be about right. ;)
 

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For the coolant, pH happens to be a handy and accurate way to decide when to avoid internal aluminum damage. For me, your 3-4 year coolant change interval is comfortable, with similar results as you describe. The pH test validates the recommendation. Will folks be OK with 120k per the factory schedule? For the "average" driver, 120k will happen to the second or third owner, about when the car is maybe 8 years old. For us low-miles long-term owners, the time gets stretched if we follow miles only. In my case, I probably won't live long enough to put 120k on our Pilot.
What is the source for this "120K" mile replacement schedule for coolant to which you keep making reference?
Can you provide a link to that "factory schedule"?
 
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