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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I have my Pilot up on four 3 ton jack stands on a brick paver level driveway, it feels very solid. If I push and lean on the sides, front or back of the vehicle, it doesn't move. The degree of force/leaning will move it more when its is on it's suspension and tires in Park with the same force/leaning.

So the question is, if I follow the recommended procedures for d&r on the transmission and rear end diff and xfer case while on a lift ... has anyone tried this while on jack stands? I would be in the driver's seat during the gear shifts and be able to immediately stop things if I detected any vibration or movement on the stands. The tires, and driveline are all balance and I feel no vibrations while driving at any speed.

My goal is to change the oil, filter, brake fluid and d&r the ATF, PSF, xfer case, and diff all during the same four corner lift. This would be with the tires on. Just bought them so no rotation this time.
 

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When I have my Pilot up on four 3 ton jack stands on a brick paver level driveway, it feels very solid. If I push and lean on the sides, front or back of the vehicle, it doesn't move. The degree of force/leaning will move it more when its is on it's suspension and tires in Park with the same force/leaning.

So the question is, if I follow the recommended procedures for d&r on the transmission and rear end diff and xfer case while on a lift ... has anyone tried this while on jack stands? I would be in the driver's seat during the gear shifts and be able to immediately stop things if I detected any vibration or movement on the stands. The tires, and driveline are all balance and I feel no vibrations while driving at any speed.

My goal is to change the oil, filter, brake fluid and d&r the ATF, PSF, xfer case, and diff all during the same four corner lift. This would be with the tires on. Just bought them so no rotation this time.
Sounds fine to me. Just know that you can actually drain out .3 at more ATF by elevating the driver side rear.
 

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Generally not a problem.

In another forum, a discussion on how safe 3T jack stands are when you are doing some serious pulling or pushing underneath. Subject car is about 3200 lbs so about 75% of Pilot weight. The common 3T stands at full extension offered overturning at (calculated) 175 lbs lateral or longitudinal force. Add 33% to that for the greater car weight for about 230 lbs needed to pull the Pilot over off the 3T stands. Assumes car is on level ground and there are pads underneath the stands if they are on anything other than concrete slab.

FWIW, I often use 3T stands as aux support under my lift for almost any serious low-lift work (fluid changes, brakes, etc.), but seldom use them alone to hold a car up off me while I work. That 3200 lb car is currently sitting on 6T stands for hibernation, with a pad height of about 20". Because the 6T stands have larger footprints, the required overturning force is about the same as the smaller stands at full height.

My worry factor was a lot higher when we lived on the bluff above Los Angeles. The ground moves enough that I wasn't that comfortable working under cars on stands regardless of the footprint. Even between working sessions, cars on the lift come down to min height and have stands supplementing the support from the lift. Here in the middle of Oregon, the risk of earth movement is way less, but I still use the same level of caution.


On to the gearbox drain and fill --
The transmission fluid needs to be at normal temp for the final level check, and that means driving the car under load rather than ruining it unloaded on stands. Do all the changes, observe the fill volume requirements, check levels before driving away. But the final verification for gearbox fluid level happens when you get home from the ride to recycle the waste fluids. Bottom line: I don't see any reason to run the car while it's on stands.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sounds fine to me. Just know that you can actually drain out .3 at more ATF by elevating the driver side rear.
Thanks for that tip. I guess it wouldn't be much bother to raise the left rear with a bottle jack while its up on stands. The floor jack would already be near the car somewhere but on a brick paved surface the floor jack tries to move the car as it raises/lowers rather than moving on it's own wheels. That is destabilizing unless the car is on the ground which you probably meant. How much elevation are we talking about?
 

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Thanks for that tip. I guess it wouldn't be much bother to raise the left rear with a bottle jack while its up on stands. The floor jack would already be near the car somewhere but on a brick paved surface the floor jack tries to move the car as it raises/lowers rather than moving on it's own wheels. That is destabilizing unless the car is on the ground which you probably meant. How much elevation are we talking about?
I'd do the ATF on the ground. The drain bolt is easy to get to. The higher you can safely raise the drivers side rear, the more fluid drains out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Generally not a problem.

In another forum, a discussion on how safe 3T jack stands are when you are doing some serious pulling or pushing underneath. Subject car is about 3200 lbs so about 75% of Pilot weight. The common 3T stands at full extension offered overturning at (calculated) 175 lbs lateral or longitudinal force. Add 33% to that for the greater car weight for about 230 lbs needed to pull the Pilot over off the 3T stands. Assumes car is on level ground and there are pads underneath the stands if they are on anything other than concrete slab.

FWIW, I often use 3T stands as aux support under my lift for almost any serious low-lift work (fluid changes, brakes, etc.), but seldom use them alone to hold a car up off me while I work. That 3200 lb car is currently sitting on 6T stands for hibernation, with a pad height of about 20". Because the 6T stands have larger footprints, the required overturning force is about the same as the smaller stands at full height.

My worry factor was a lot higher when we lived on the bluff above Los Angeles. The ground moves enough that I wasn't that comfortable working under cars on stands regardless of the footprint. Even between working sessions, cars on the lift come down to min height and have stands supplementing the support from the lift. Here in the middle of Oregon, the risk of earth movement is way less, but I still use the same level of caution.


On to the gearbox drain and fill --
The transmission fluid needs to be at normal temp for the final level check, and that means driving the car under load rather than ruining it unloaded on stands. Do all the changes, observe the fill volume requirements, check levels before driving away. But the final verification for gearbox fluid level happens when you get home from the ride to recycle the waste fluids. Bottom line: I don't see any reason to run the car while it's on stands.
Some hurricanes here in Florida do shake the house, but nothing moves the ground that I'm aware of.

My usual on the ground maintenance is to get things up to operating temp before draining anything which I wouldn't change using the four corner stand method.

I crack any drain/fill bolts (and lugs nuts for a tire rotation) while the vehicle is sill on the ground to eliminate any meaningful lateral/longitudinal forces while on stands.

I normally check the fluid levels after driving around for a while to get things up to temp and eliminate any air pockets that would give false readings, but while checking the ATF level is easy, doing the differential and transfer box fluid level checks after a drive is more work, takes more time, and is more difficult than simply moving the innards of those two assemblies while in gear for a few seconds on stands and rechecking the levels with the elevated access.

Is ruining a typo for running? I don't see how running it on stands unloaded ruins it.
 

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I've placed vehicles on 4 stands. For peace of mind, I place a jack (just lightly touching) on a support near where I'm working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'd do the ATF on the ground. The drain bolt is easy to get to. The higher you can safely raise the drivers side rear, the more fluid drains out.
I figured you meant that. I wouldn't bother putting the car up on four stands if I wasn't also planning on changing the brake fluid, measuring the brake pads and rotors, and inspecting the underside in general for leaks, corrosion, etc.

Working under a car, even on the ground, still isn't risk free from getting crushed. A tire could blow out, a spring break, something heavy could fall removing the wrong bolts, etc.

When the car is on stands I try not to be under the car any longer than necessary. Most things like brakes, tire rotations, etc., I try to do from the side without getting under the car. All the drains are crack loose before leaving the ground and I use extensions to finish unwinding them. I even do that on the ground to keep the surge of hot oil from getting on my hands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've placed vehicles on 4 stands. For peace of mind, I place a jack (just lightly touching) on a support near where I'm working.
Excellent idea. I thought of leaving the floor jack on the center jacking point unloaded on the end of the car I was working on, but that would be right in the way getting to the rear differential although not so much on the front for the trans, oil sump and xfer case. I guess a smaller footprint jack stand, scissor jack or bottle jack wouldn't be hard to work around. I'll give it a try and let you know how long it lasted before I shoved it out of my way.
 

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Excellent idea. I thought of leaving the floor jack on the center jacking point unloaded on the end of the car I was working on, but that would be right in the way getting to the rear differential although not so much on the front for the trans, oil sump and xfer case. I guess a smaller footprint jack stand, scissor jack or bottle jack wouldn't be hard to work around. I'll give it a try and let you know how long it lasted before I shoved it out of my way.
Scissor Jack or bottle jack are barely stable when raising a vehicle to change a tire, much less in catching a falling vehicle. (My 2 cents)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Scissor Jack or bottle jack are barely stable when raising a vehicle to change a tire, much less in catching a falling vehicle. (My 2 cents)
OK, I'd hate to argue the point and bet my life on winning the argument.

It's no bother to jack up the LR and open the trans drain first before going up on all four stands. I just have to wait for it to drain.
 

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OK, I'd hate to argue the point and bet my life on winning the argument.

It's no bother to jack up the LR and open the trans drain first before going up on all four stands. I just have to wait for it to drain.
Yes. That's what I do.
 
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I've placed vehicles on 4 stands. For peace of mind, I place a jack (just lightly touching) on a support near where I'm working.
Agreed the rare times I get under a vehicle anymore on jack stands I have the floor jack touching as well. Kind of like this old Polish "tied to the track" friend of mine that I used to call "two rubbers", you know, in case one breaks :ROFLMAO:
 

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I've only needed to clean up one mess from when a vehicle fell off a jack. That's one more than I ever wanted to.

Can't be 'too safe' when working on or under the car. The right jack and the right stands are essential. Right brain helps.
 

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I've only needed to clean up one mess from when a vehicle fell off a jack. That's one more than I ever wanted to.

Can't be 'too safe' when working on or under the car. The right jack and the right stands are essential. Right brain helps.
There comes a point to where it is a little ridiculous.
142890
 

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When changing the atf, diff or xfer case I use 4”tall 11”x11” paver under each tire. Oil I use jack stands on all four corners.
 

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When changing the atf, diff or xfer case I use 4”tall 11”x11” paver under each tire. Oil I use jack stands on all four corners.
OK, I just re-read that. you said 4" tall, square paver stones under each wheel. Can you make a little ramp/layer and just drive it up on them too? Brilliant!

On my 15, when I did the oil, rear diff., trans. case, and ATF, I didn't raise it at all. I can just fit under there and work too.
Removing the spare makes the rear diff much easier too. Lot's of room under there then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yes. That's what I do.
I took a dipstick reading hot and then drained the tranny with the car level. It was right at the hot mark, maybe a smidge over. The fluid isn't that dirty and it's difficult to read the dipstick, at least for me.

I waiting until I got a very slow drip... 3.9 quarts came out. Raised the RL tire 6" and got a total of 4.1 quarts. Both the floor jack and my arm couldn't go any further. So that's it.

How far do you raise the RL tire to get another .3? I'm ok getting 4.1 out and I'll put 4.0 back in (the whole gallon container) so it should be on the money.

I'm a little concerned there was about the same amount of gunk on the drain magnet as when I did the first d&r of the transmission at 98k miles.

As far as I can tell from the previous owner's records, it hadn't been changed since new. It's at 105k now so in only 7k miles it's accumulated about what the previous 98k miles stuck to the magnet. Hope the end isn't near.

142907
 

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I took a dipstick reading hot and then drained the tranny with the car level. It was right at the hot mark, maybe a smidge over. The fluid isn't that dirty and it's difficult to read the dipstick, at least for me.

I waiting until I got a very slow drip... 3.9 quarts came out. Raised the RL tire 6" and got a total of 4.1 quarts. Both the floor jack and my arm couldn't go any further. So that's it.

How far do you raise the RL tire to get another .3? I'm ok getting 4.1 out and I'll put 4.0 back in (the whole gallon container) so it should be on the money.

I'm a little concerned there was about the same amount of gunk on the drain magnet as when I did the first d&r of the transmission at 98k miles.

As far as I can tell from the previous owner's records, it hadn't been changed since new. It's at 105k now so in only 7k miles it's accumulated about what the previous 98k miles stuck to the magnet. Hope the end isn't near.

View attachment 142907
Maybe the magnet can only hold so much? Fresh fluid can have a cleaning affect. Black silt doesn't signify the end. Metal shavings would.
Nice job on the 4qt drain. I seem to come up 1 or 2 points short of a full 4. Probably just me in fear of overfilling.
 
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