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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

I own a 2016 Pilot EX-L with approximately 43K miles and wanted to bring up a rough shift from 1st to 2nd gear up for discussion. This happens when accelerating slowly and it seems to happen more while going uphill. I have mentioned this to the dealership and of course they say that is normal. It has been happening since I first received the car in 16'. As I have come to realize while reading through this forum is that the dealership is not always the most honest/ethical place to get answers from. There is so much knowledge and expertise on this site in all you members.

Any thoughts as to what could be causing this? I am going in for my 2nd visit to the dealer tomorrow for P0430 (Software update did not do the trick as the error code came back) and I was going to bring this up. I know there is TSB 17-015 for a judder but my rough shift seems to definitely happen under 20mph so I am not sure if this is the case. I am a complete newbie to car repair though and have been progressively learning by all your impressive posts.

Is this rough shift normal or not? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks all!!
 

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“Rough shift” is a relative term. Since you say it’s been the same since new it’s probably normal. An abnormally rough shift would have most likely resulted in other symptoms after 43K miles. 1st to 2nd shifts are by nature “rougher“ due to the relative gear ratios between the gear sets. If you have driven a stick shift you probably noticed it’s harder to achieve a smooth 1-2 up shift vs a 4-5 upshift. The uphill shift is more prone to roughness because the vehicle is designed to shift at higher rpms when traveling uphill. While your vehicle is being serviced, ask for a test drive in 6speed Pilot to compare to your vehicle.
 

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See if they will apply TSB 17-015 for the judder. It includes a 3x drain and fill. If they won’t do it you may choose on your own to pay for it. I think fresh tranny fluid will will fix your issue. Plus if you’ve had the software update you should be good with new fluid.
 

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I got ’16 pilot with 53k on it and does the same thing. 1 to 2 on uphill feels pretty rough especially if i go slowly


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Hi All,

I own a 2016 Pilot EX-L with approximately 43K miles and wanted to bring up a rough shift from 1st to 2nd gear up for discussion. This happens when accelerating slowly and it seems to happen more while going uphill. I have mentioned this to the dealership and of course they say that is normal. It has been happening since I first received the car in 16'. As I have come to realize while reading through this forum is that the dealership is not always the most honest/ethical place to get answers from. There is so much knowledge and expertise on this site in all you members.

Any thoughts as to what could be causing this? I am going in for my 2nd visit to the dealer tomorrow for P0430 (Software update did not do the trick as the error code came back) and I was going to bring this up. I know there is TSB 17-015 for a judder but my rough shift seems to definitely happen under 20mph so I am not sure if this is the case. I am a complete newbie to car repair though and have been progressively learning by all your impressive posts.

Is this rough shift normal or not? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks all!!
P0430 likely being caused by the VCM operation. Fouled spark plugs, and oil making ita way into your catalytic converters and EGR valve clogging them. They will probably treat the symtom not the cause by replacing an injector or 2 or a spark plug or claim you need a piston ring job.
Transmission problems are aggravated by the VCM as well. Does your rpm gauge exhibit erratic behavior while in cruise?
 

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I had similar problem with my 2016 which I bought certified pre owned last year and is now out of CPO warranty but under a purchased extended warranty. I went to the dealership for maintenance minder A1 service and brought this issue up and rep said “that’s how the pilot/9 speed is, there is nothing to do” I asked him to check any TSB or recalls on my vehicle. They ran a VIN specific recall/update on my vehicle and “nothing came up”. Service rep basically said there was nothing to do.

I brought up the TSB I found on this forum. TSB is A16-008. The affected VINs are through (2 wheel drive GB024149 and AWD GB050323). He brought up that TSB using the number I gave him and confirmed my 2016 was covered!!! He was surprised there was something to do!!! They updated the transmission software during the A1 service and I feel it has significantly improved the problem. It’s still not perfect but is improved. Apparently if you complain of any shifting problems that overlap with the symptoms mentioned in TSB or reference this TSB they should upgrade the software. I son’t know/think TSB’s are covered out of warranty. There was no charge for my software upgrade.


Transmission Function Improvements: Sensation of Surge While
Braking, Slow Downshift Response at Low Engine Speeds, and Other
Listed Symptoms
AFFECTED VEHICLES
Year Model Trim
2016 Pilot 2WD with 9-Speed A/T 2016 Pilot AWD with 9-Speed A/t
BACKGROUND
American Honda has made several shift quality improvements in the 2016 Pilot.
VIN Range
5FNYF5...GB000001 thru 5FNYF5...GB024149 5FNYF6...GB000001 thru 5FNYF6...GB050323
SYMPTOM
There is a sensation of acceleration while coasting down a hill.
There is a sensation of a surge while braking.
The transmission feels like it stays in the gear too long.
During slight acceleration, there is a surge or hesitation from a stop.
The transmission feels rough at low speeds.
There is a hesitation from a stop (with idle stop canceled).
There is poor acceleration or bogging noise at slow engine speeds.

see full TSB here

 

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I had similar problem with my 2016 which I bought certified pre owned last year and is now out of CPO warranty but under a purchased extended warranty. I went to the dealership for maintenance minder A1 service and brought this issue up and rep said “that’s how the pilot/9 speed is, there is nothing to do” I asked him to check any TSB or recalls on my vehicle. They ran a VIN specific recall/update on my vehicle and “nothing came up”. Service rep basically said there was nothing to do.

I brought up the TSB I found on this forum. TSB is A16-008. The affected VINs are through (2 wheel drive GB024149 and AWD GB050323). He brought up that TSB using the number I gave him and confirmed my 2016 was covered!!! He was surprised there was something to do!!! They updated the transmission software during the A1 service and I feel it has significantly improved the problem. It’s still not perfect but is improved. Apparently if you complain of any shifting problems that overlap with the symptoms mentioned in TSB or reference this TSB they should upgrade the software. I son’t know/think TSB’s are covered out of warranty. There was no charge for my software upgrade.


Transmission Function Improvements: Sensation of Surge While
Braking, Slow Downshift Response at Low Engine Speeds, and Other
Listed Symptoms
AFFECTED VEHICLES
Year Model Trim
2016 Pilot 2WD with 9-Speed A/T 2016 Pilot AWD with 9-Speed A/t
BACKGROUND
American Honda has made several shift quality improvements in the 2016 Pilot.
VIN Range
5FNYF5...GB000001 thru 5FNYF5...GB024149 5FNYF6...GB000001 thru 5FNYF6...GB050323
SYMPTOM
There is a sensation of acceleration while coasting down a hill.
There is a sensation of a surge while braking.
The transmission feels like it stays in the gear too long.
During slight acceleration, there is a surge or hesitation from a stop.
The transmission feels rough at low speeds.
There is a hesitation from a stop (with idle stop canceled).
There is poor acceleration or bogging noise at slow engine speeds.

see full TSB here

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP has a 2016 EX-L. I believe it's a 6-speed.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP has a 2016 EX-L. I believe it's a 6-speed.
My mistake. You are correct. 2016 EX-L has 6 speed transmission so his problem would not be covered by the TSB I mentioned. For others members searching who have 2016 Pilot 9 speed versions with complaints of shifting issues...see my post above.
 

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P0430 likely being caused by the VCM operation. Fouled spark plugs, and oil making ita way into your catalytic converters and EGR valve clogging them. They will probably treat the symtom not the cause by replacing an injector or 2 or a spark plug or claim you need a piston ring job.
Transmission problems are aggravated by the VCM as well. Does your rpm gauge exhibit erratic behavior while in cruise?
Not aware of any reports of DTC P0430 caused by VCM. Do you have a data source for this assertion? There is a well documented history of fuel injector failures on early 3G Pilots due to a mfg defect. The fuel injectors are replaced as a set with an updated part number under the TSB. The OP should note that the 5/60 power train warranty does not cover this failure but the emissions warranty may apply dependent on the state of vehicle registration.
The OP is concerned about harsh up shifts during acceleration. VCM is not active in this scenario. The erratic tach behavior you mention could be the TC lock/unlock during transitions from 6 and 3 cylinder modes. On my vehicle it’s barely noticeable, maybe 200 RPMs or so. This is normal operation and does not indicate a transmission problem.
 

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I too have a 16 EXLwith 55k miles and was having some issues with the transmission hunting for the right gear. I found that the transmission fluid was really dark and probably was not changed by the previous owner. Did a 3X drain and fill and the transmission has been working well since. Have you had the fluid changed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wow what wonderful comments and insight by everyone! I am always impressed by the wealth of knowledge on this site.

I had a transmission fluid changed at 34K miles due to what the service advisor told me. I thought it was weird at the time because I did not receive a maintenance minder for this. He stated that you need to change it every 30K miles. Perhaps this would have been covered had I brought up that TSB 17-015? I am unsure whether or not they flushed it three times but I doubt they did. Seemed like a routine transmission fluid change.

Would hate to own a car with transmission issues because I have been told they are very costly to repair and it never is the same as the original.

The slight jerk the car makes switching from first to second gear is annoying but if that is considered normal, I guess I will have to get used to it. It has been 4 years now and I still have not gotten used to it though.

I will definitely bring up this issue to the service advisor the next time I go in. I just hate mentioning things such as this to the service advisor because it seems they start to just think of ways to add to their bottom line.

This issue along with the P0430 issue (That the software update did not fix) make me somewhat skeptical of getting another Pilot in the future. I found it odd that my service advisor did not know the emissions warranty is 7 Yrs/70K miles for cars in NY. He also stated he was completely unaware of TSB 19-072. He said they do not follow TSB's and go about repairs "their own way". I told him I found that odd because my conversation with a customer service rep from Honda America actually told me about TSB 19-072.
 

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Regarding the P0430 code, which is the bank2 cat efficiency. The cause is usually an over rich condition which can be caused by leaking fuel injectors, or even just bad fuel or a dirty air filter. I had the same code pop up a couple of times several months ago and figured it was caused by bad fuel. I have been using Esso 87 octane since and the code has not come back. 50k miles is way too soon to be having injectors replaced but if you are covered under warranty, why not get them replaced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Per my conversation with customer service at Honda America, they confirmed it is a pretty common problem that comes up. According to TSB 19-072, it pertains to all 2016 Pilot's. As to the root cause of the issue and mechanical explanation, that is way beyond me. I just hope it gets fixed.

I primarily go to Exxon/Shell/BP and go with 87 since that is what is recommended. What is considered bad fuel? What/where you getting your gas prior to changing to Esso 87? How can gas stations continue to be in business legally if they were selling bad fuel? Would love to hear more about that.

If your code never comes back, are you not concerned abut what set it off in the first place and if there is underlying damage now?
 

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If your code never comes back, are you not concerned abut what set it off in the first place and if there is underlying damage now?
I am not concerned as the code has not come back and the car is running perfectly and getting great gas mileage. I may still install an SVCM at some point though.
 
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