Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
2011 Pilot Touring 4wd, 145k miles. It's had a history of electrical issues.

I've been chasing a misfire on the front bank since the new year. It started at cylinder 4, briefly hopped over to 5 and has now firmly entrenched itself on cylinder 6. I've done the usual musical chairs of coils and plugs, then replaced all plugs with factory piece. With new plugs, misfire has only been on cyl 6 and is MUCH worse.

Misfire coffee have ALWAYS been accompanied by the following DTCs:
  1. 83-19 - ECM/PCM relation failure
  2. 119-01 - Powertrain system failure
Sometimes, I also get P15DB - Cylinder pause signal 2 malfunction.

I have a Foxwell NT520 that I can stream sensor data to. Misfires happen immediately after the VPS system (ECO light) shuts off. When it's left to idle for more than than a minute, that's when the misfires really begin. Predominantly on cylinder 6 with the occasional misfire on 2.

In addition to replacing plugs, I've been rotating oil pressure sensors. No change.

Thinking spool valve issues, maybe relief valve in the oil pump. simple as a software update? I'm open to suggestions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
2011 Pilot Touring 4wd, 145k miles. It's had a history of electrical issues.

I've been chasing a misfire on the front bank since the new year. It started at cylinder 4, briefly hopped over to 5 and has now firmly entrenched itself on cylinder 6. I've done the usual musical chairs of coils and plugs, then replaced all plugs with factory piece. With new plugs, misfire has only been on cyl 6 and is MUCH worse.

Misfire coffee have ALWAYS been accompanied by the following DTCs:
  1. 83-19 - ECM/PCM relation failure
  2. 119-01 - Powertrain system failure
Sometimes, I also get P15DB - Cylinder pause signal 2 malfunction.

I have a Foxwell NT520 that I can stream sensor data to. Misfires happen immediately after the VPS system (ECO light) shuts off. When it's left to idle for more than than a minute, that's when the misfires really begin. Predominantly on cylinder 6 with the occasional misfire on 2.

In addition to replacing plugs, I've been rotating oil pressure sensors. No change.

Thinking spool valve issues, maybe relief valve in the oil pump. simple as a software update? I'm open to suggestions.
Have you disabled VCM?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Muzzled (or PM Verbatim here) or disabled with another brand, S-VCM or VCM Tuner.
Thank you. I had researched these options when I first bought the vehicle 2.5 years ago, but with no issues or symptoms, I never made the purchase. Guess it may be time to take the plunge.

Would accompanying codes indicate that a software update may be in order, or that the ECM/PCM is faulty? In addition to the misfire, this vehicle also suffers from or has suffered from:
  • multiple SRS DTCs that go back and forth between drivers and passengers side
  • repeated VTM4 DTCs, yet VTM4 is fully functional.
  • An inability for the gauge control module to communicate with the power tailgate module (U0230)
  • Complete, simultaneous and permanent failure of:
    • power tailgate
    • nav system
    • rear entertainment system
    • front map lights
    • compass
    • clock
This list doesn't include DTCs that would pop up 3, 4 maybe 5 times, then and inexplicably never come back. It's not possible that a "short in the rear air mix motor" (as one example) would resolve itself, but if the on-board diagnostics are correct, it did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,506 Posts
Thank you. I had researched these options when I first bought the vehicle 2.5 years ago, but with no issues or symptoms, I never made the purchase. Guess it may be time to take the plunge.

Would accompanying codes indicate that a software update may be in order, or that the ECM/PCM is faulty? In addition to the misfire, this vehicle also suffers from or has suffered from:
  • multiple SRS DTCs that go back and forth between drivers and passengers side
  • repeated VTM4 DTCs, yet VTM4 is fully functional.
  • An inability for the gauge control module to communicate with the power tailgate module (U0230)
  • Complete, simultaneous and permanent failure of:
    • power tailgate
    • nav system
    • rear entertainment system
    • front map lights
    • compass
    • clock
This list doesn't include DTCs that would pop up 3, 4 maybe 5 times, then and inexplicably never come back. It's not possible that a "short in the rear air mix motor" (as one example) would resolve itself, but if the on-board diagnostics are correct, it did.
A PCM failure would be rare. With all these things randomly being faulty, it sounds like an electrical anomaly. I'd make sure my battery and alternator are functioning normally. Clean solid battery terminal conections. Clean, solid ground terminal wire to chassis.
As for misfires, some basic maintenance/steps can rule out anything major. But as suggested, disabling the VCM will ensure that all 6 cylinders are firing 100% of the time. This will help clean the carbon deposits in those affected cylinders. Steps I would take first....
  1. Disable the VCM
  2. New air filter (if needed), installed properly, no leaks
  3. Air intake hose is leak free, clamps tight.
  4. Clean MAF. Remove sensor, and with a few short bursts of CRC Electronic Cleaner or MAF Cleaner, spray directly into the electrodes. Let dry thoroughly before re-installing.
  5. New spark plugs, NGK Laser Iridiums
  6. Inspect spark plug tubes. Coils should be dry and oil free.
  7. Ensure all coils are functioning.
  8. Replace PCV valve if old.
  9. Replace/clean EGR valve if high milage or old.
  10. Use Full Synthetic engine oil, the weight recommended.
  11. Use a Top Tier 87 octane fuel or treat untreated gasoline with injector cleaner.
  12. Italian tune up. After the above steps, take your vehicle out on the highway for some long sustained periods high speed driving. Obey the speed limit, of course. 😁
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
750 Posts
Vcm has zero effect on #5 and #6, as they are incapable of being disabled. You have ruled out plug and coil. Next I would make sure #6 coil produces spark, then check compression on #6. If compression is good, your most likely looking at an injector issue. If leak down fails, you have a base engine issue to find. Has the valve adjustment been done?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,506 Posts
Disabling the VCM removes the extra load on the non dormant cylinders. That extra load along with a poor MAF reading can cause a buildup of carbon deposits. For a healthy engine, I'd recommend disabling the VCM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: slimjam

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
A PCM failure would be rare. With all these things randomly being faulty, it sounds like an electrical anomaly. I'd make sure my battery and alternator are functioning normally. Clean solid battery terminal conections. Clean, solid ground terminal wire to chassis.
As for misfires, some basic maintenance/steps can rule out anything major. But as suggested, disabling the VCM will ensure that all 6 cylinders are firing 100% of the time. This will help clean the carbon deposits in those affected cylinders. Steps I would take first....
Thanks NG. I've done most of thee things already, but I have a new PCV valve and I'll go ahead and clean MAF just to rule those out as well.

Vcm has zero effect on #5 and #6, as they are incapable of being disabled. You have ruled out plug and coil. Next I would make sure #6 coil produces spark, then check compression on #6. If compression is good, your most likely looking at an injector issue. If leak down fails, you have a base engine issue to find. Has the valve adjustment been done?
Your first statement is why VCM wasn't my initial thought. My only tie-ins are the P15DB code and the misfire once or twice when VPS shuts off at speed.

Valve lash has not been checked since MM called for timing belt and associated service @ 104K, at which time it was within spec and was not adjusted. I thought of this as well, but with the misfire meandering down the bank, I moved it down the list of potential issues. I may just add it to NG's list above and plan to recheck on Saturday.

Thanks for all your input.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,159 Posts
Thank you. I had researched these options when I first bought the vehicle 2.5 years ago, but with no issues or symptoms, I never made the purchase. Guess it may be time to take the plunge.

Would accompanying codes indicate that a software update may be in order, or that the ECM/PCM is faulty? In addition to the misfire, this vehicle also suffers from or has suffered from:
  • multiple SRS DTCs that go back and forth between drivers and passengers side
  • repeated VTM4 DTCs, yet VTM4 is fully functional.
  • An inability for the gauge control module to communicate with the power tailgate module (U0230)
  • Complete, simultaneous and permanent failure of:
    • power tailgate
    • nav system
    • rear entertainment system
    • front map lights
    • compass
    • clock
This list doesn't include DTCs that would pop up 3, 4 maybe 5 times, then and inexplicably never come back. It's not possible that a "short in the rear air mix motor" (as one example) would resolve itself, but if the on-board diagnostics are correct, it did.
As you know, the car's electrical/electronic systems are a network of communciation lines ... rather than separate wires for each signal, they are combined or multiplexed and all sent as a scrambled signal down one or at least a lot fewer wires. It doesn't take much of a bad connection, loose wire, corroded ground connection, loose battery post terminal, etc. to cause enough noise and voltage fluctuations to confuse the other end trying to separate out all the individual signals. Things may only look like they are self healing if the phase of the moon is right and all the signals make it through unconfused. Grab a can of electrical connection cleaner and start cleaning/tightening any possible suspects. Grounds are often overlooked but all roads lead to ground, so they are super important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Indeed. I've been pretty adept at resolving electrical problems in my Civics over the years, but this thing just has too many fail points. Every ground inspected, cleaned and reattached with dialectic grease. Interior gutted from front to rear to inspect wiring and connections. Every fuse in the vehicle backprobed. under dash fuse box with integrated MICU replaced. I've pretty much given up on the PTG/NAV/RES failure.

But anyway, I went with VCMTUNER II because they could get it to me the soonest. Should arrive Saturday. Will provide update.

My wife put 150 miles on it today after I cleared codes and swapped 5 and 6 coils. Minor audible misfires at iidle. MIL came on 60 miles in, but there were no noticeable misfires accelerating onto highways. Last week, misfire were bad enough to get the MIL to flash, but not today. I pulled all the usual codes this evening, #6 plug loss like:

145972
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You guys nailed it. Disabling VCM resolved all issues.

I installed VCMTUNER II on Saturday morning along with:
  • Replace PCV
  • Clean MAF
  • Inspect all underhood grounds
  • Clean both battery terminals
ECO light has never come on. MIL has never illuminated. A full 170 miles today, approx 5 hours of mixed use driving, no stored DTCs this evening. (except for tailgate issue)

Thanks to everyone for your input and insight. I'll post to the muzzler thread as well with my experience.
 

·
Registered
2020 Honda Pilot EX-L AWD, 2017 Honda CR-V EX-L AWD
Joined
·
50 Posts
You guys nailed it. Disabling VCM resolved all issues.
Holy crap. If that won’t convince the doubters, nothing will. Have my SVCM unit on order for my 15K miles 2020 and can’t wait to install it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top