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2021 Honda Pilot Touring 7P Platinum White Pearl
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello All!
I've asked this question before on a FB group but though I'd ask here as well...I used the search function but only found information for older Pilots, 1st Gen/2nd Gen...

Does anyone else notice or have had issues with their rear suspension having negative camber or appear to be sagging? /--\

Took a trip down to Mexico back in December and on the way back, my Father in law mentioned that my left, Rear tire appeared to be crooked...didn't think much of it, other than maybe some extra weight on that side of the Pilot on the way back...

Well, 6 months later, and i still cant get that picture out of my head. Every time i back away from the the Pilot, I see that the left wheel seems to be crooked. I've taken it to Honda once, they performed an alignment since the "front" was "out of spec" but the rear was within spec...

Any help or suggestion is appreciated. 2021 Pilot 7-P Touring

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2021 Honda Pilot EX-L AWD
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My 2021 is the same, visible negative camber when unloaded that gets worse with more weight. Had it to the dealer yesterday for service and asked them to align it. They couldn’t get it in. They got the toe adjusted the best they could but still can’t get the camber in spec. Told me there’s nothing they can do because it isn’t adjustable.
 

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2021 Honda Pilot Touring 7P Platinum White Pearl
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If the left rear was out, the alignment check would have revealed a problem. Did you get a printout of the results?
Pardon the delay...I had the paperwork from the dealer but cant seem to find it. Supposedly when they did the alignment, it was within spec...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My 2021 is the same, visible negative camber when unloaded that gets worse with more weight. Had it to the dealer yesterday for service and asked them to align it. They couldn’t get it in. They got the toe adjusted the best they could but still can’t get the camber in spec. Told me there’s nothing they can do because it isn’t adjustable.
I feel you...i took it 6 months ago and was told the same...

i've considered adding the mud flaps to just not visilby see it...i just hope my Michellins i just had installed arent affected...since its "within specs"
 

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2021 Honda Pilot EX-L AWD
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After my last alignment, I was told that the negative camber shouldn't have any effect on tire wear. I wasn't buying it, but decided to humor them. Took it in yesterday after 2 weeks of commuting and a 400-mile family trip, when I discovered it was chewing up the inside edge of the rear tires that had been rotated from the front.

They checked everything over again, said they adjusted the toe-in perfectly, whereas before they had fudged a bit on the toe to try to get the camber in as much as possible.

After road testing it, something doesn't feel right. Can't put my finger on it, but I can adjust to it with time so long as the tires are running true. I had been trying to tell the service advisor that it seems much worse after family trips since it's full of people, luggage, and gear. I ran by Home Depot and bought 1000 lbs of sand bags and distributed throughout the passenger compartment, placing the balance in the rear cargo area, evenly distributed. I took it back, and had them put it back on the rack. While the tech was getting the loaded measurements, the service advisor tried to convince me that the factory tires are junk, can't expect them to last more than 20 or 25,000 miles, and that a new set of Michelin Defenders and an alignment at $1300 will cure all my ills.

After we got the printouts in a loaded status, I think the service advisor is now getting what I've been trying to tell him. He has referred me to the service manager next week, as he is currently on vacation.

The unloaded and loaded printouts are attached. The VIN and Dealer info are cropped out for the time being.
 

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Your "unloaded" rear camber is to the edge of factory spec. The suspension on this Pilot and many other vehicles is designed for negative camber as the load increases, to improve stability, at the expense of tire wear. That said, I'd prefer zero camber for unloaded (or your 90% load condition) to maximize tire life.

While Honda doesn't provide rear camber adjustment, there are (as with most vehicles) aftermarket camber bolt kits that a independent shop would likely install for you.

 

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I appreciate the link AVC! Unfortunately, that is meant to adjust the toe. There is an adjustable ball joint, and I do have a pair still in the box from Rock Auto. I hesitate to install them for a three reasons.

First being that it is still under warranty, and because it is not in spec when unloaded, it is a defect. Plus, I was informed that the aftermarket ball joints would void any related warranty issues.

Second being that the aftermarket ball joints are taller than factory out of necessity to accommodate the adjustability. This alters the relative angles between the suspension arms. Whether the change would be for the better or the worse, I do not know, and I do not wish to take that risk on my family hauler.

Third, is the principal of the matter. I selected this vehicle based on its size, payload capacity, and Honda’s claim that it is a “truck”. I paid extra for the tow package allowing me to tow 5000 lbs. I expect a vehicle to perform to its advertised capacity without undue or abnormal wear and tear to the parts comprising said vehicle. To me, a vehicle that suffers undue or abnormal wear and tear to the vehicle at its advertised capacity constitutes false advertising. A “truck” should have a fully adjustable suspension from the factory to compensate for individual loading requirements to maximize tire life and stability based upon specific needs of the owner/driver.
 

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My assumption was that the Moog bolt replaces this one, but I'm sure you've researched this more than me. I seriously doubt this would void any warranties (they'd be hard pressed to defend that claim).

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That Moog bolt replaces the inboard control arm bolt (what I’d consider a tie rod) which is where the factory cam adjustment is located. The Moog part allows for a greater adjustment range of the toe than the factory cam does, and does require grinding on the frame mount as I recall to oblong the holes to take advantage of the increased range. It replaces items 18, 29, and 31 in the attached image.

I wish there was a cam bolt where you referenced.
 

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That said, I'd prefer zero camber for unloaded (or your 90% load condition) to maximize tire life.
This may lead to less directional stability, I haven't set one to zero to confirm. Certain vehicles need the negative camber, not sure if a Pilot does or doesn't.
 

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This may lead to less directional stability, I haven't set one to zero to confirm. Certain vehicles need the negative camber, not sure if a Pilot does or doesn't.
I believe Zero camber is within factory tolerances. The OP would probably be thrilled if it waso -0.50' unloaded.

BTW, the manual I'm looking at doesn't list FWD and AWD separately. Just a single -.30' +/-0.45'
 

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Every vehicle that's towing a load is harder on tires, your expectation on this issue is unreasonable.
I believe I said “without undue or abnormal wear”. I expect there to be an increase in wear on tires when loaded or towing.

I don’t expect the tires to chew up the inner shoulder. That would be abnormal.

I don’t expect tire life to be halved. That would be undue.

I’ve lost track of the number of miles I’ve logged over the years carrying heavy loads and pulling trailers in a personal, commercial, and farm capacity, but it is enough for me to know what is reasonable and what is not.
 

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I believe Zero camber is within factory tolerances. The OP would probably be thrilled if it waso -0.50' unloaded.

BTW, the manual I'm looking at doesn't list FWD and AWD separately. Just a single -.30' +/-0.45'
According to the printouts I received, the front and rear both can be anywhere between +0.3 to -1.3

if that’s the case, I’d like to set them to +0.2 unloaded, so that when it is loaded it would be in the neighborhood of -1.3. Not perfect, but a good compromise given the limitations of the design.
 

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I have a 2005 Acura MDX with saggy rear springs which negatively impacted rear camber, so I installed adjustable upper control arms in the rear. Camber correction is different on a 3rd generation Pilot, but I mention this just to share my experience with adjusting camber. I prefer as "neutral" as possible in terms of alignment. That is, toe as close to 0 as reasonable, camber as close to 0 as reasonable, etc. I have our MDX set up this way and it drives pretty good. You definitely lose some stability and response with this approach. I'd personally target for something like 0 to -0.5.
 

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I'd leave the static toe-in as Honda speced it. When the vehicle is moving, the rolling forces and compliance in the suspension components will pull the rear wheels near zero toe. In fact, in a high mileage vehicle, you may adjust the toe-in to the far edge of factory spec so that the wheels don't toe out when cruising. Rear toe-out is pretty squirrely in most front drive vehicles.
 

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According to the printouts I received, the front and rear both can be anywhere between +0.3 to -1.3
Yeah I saw that on your report. Quite different camber range than I'm finding in the Mitchell shop manual.
 
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