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Rack and Pinion leak

20K views 47 replies 8 participants last post by  JayLiv0507 
#1 ·
Summary: Seem to have a very slight PS fluid leak and my steering wheel is intermittently hard to turn. I replaced the fluid and I've also replaced PS pump inlet gasket that often goes bad. Any ideas what this might be?

I went to the dealer for an oil change yesterday...GASP!
I brought my own oil and paid them $20 to change it for me. I got a complimentary inspection and car wash out of it.

One thing they mentioned was that my steering rack and pinion was leaking a little bit. I've noticed some sort of fluid on a rubber boot coming out of that area and wondered if that was PS fluid. Since I bought the car, intermittently the steering wheel has been hard to turn but it hasn't been a big deal to me or anyone else who drives my car.

Changing the fluid seems to help this issue but then it comes back. The weird thing is, the rack and pinion was replaced by the previous owner 40,000 miles ago. It seems odd to me that A) A car with that few miles would need that replaced and B) Why is the steering wheel hard to turn. I replaced the inlet gasket that is often bad with these cars but that didn't seem to make a difference. I don't notice any loss in PS fluid which is also weird.

Basically, I am wondering what this could be, and if it is the rack and pinion I'll probably just try and live with it until it becomes a major problem.

I am also considering calling the shop that had the work done and seeing if they have some sort of warranty because I don't think it should be giving issues after only 40,000 miles.
 
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#5 ·
It's likely a rebuilt. I would doubt there would be any warranty (hope I'm wrong).
The leak points are usually in the line connections. I would verify that each of these lines are tight with a flare nut wrench.
I am not expecting any kind of warranty especially because I am not the owner who had the work done. The previous owner went to a shop that is known around my area as being incredibly expensive and pushy with their repair recommendations. Their timing belt service includes replacing all of the motor mounts. I added up the total repair/maintenance costs the previous owner paid and it totaled like $25,000 over 11 years of ownership.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I'm a bit confused because you suggest you have a fluid leak - but aren't losing any fluid...

If you have a small leak anywhere in the steering path it can let air into the system which can then 'airlock' the fluid. This can present as 'steering lock' and also usually results in some type of shudder on very sharp turns. A quick way to check for leaks is to pull the cap on the PS reservoir and look for air bubbles - if you have any frothing on top of the fluid you 99% of the time have a leak somewhere in the system. If you're in a rust area, the metal return line (in a 2oo3 the one that runs under the reservoir and along the frame, not the true high pressure line) can corrode at a connection point and throw fluid anywhere. I had to literally jack up the front of the vehicle and have my wife turn the wheels with them off the groundl to find the pinhole in the tube - but I was losing enough fluid that I knew I had a true leak.

A few other questions - did the PS pump get changed when they did the rack? In addition to difficulty turning, do you have any vibration or shudder? Any hissing or squealing from the pump or rack?

If the pump wasn't changed before or with the rack, my first thought would be to check the lines as NG mentioned and then suspect a failing pump. Bad seals on a PS pump can easily let air into the system to cause problems without losing a noticeable amount of fluid (a few mLs) from the reservoir.
 
#4 ·
I'm a bit confused because you suggest you have a fluid leak - but aren't losing any fluid...

If you have a small leak anywhere in the steering path it can let air into the system which can then 'airlock' the fluid. This can present as 'steering lock' and also usually results in some type of shudder on very sharp turns. A quick way to check for leaks is to pull the cap on the PS reservoir and look for air bubbles - if you have any frothing on top of the fluid you 99% of the time have a leak somewhere in the system. If you're in a rust area, the metal return line (in a 2oo3 the one that runs under the reservoir and along the frame, not the true high pressure line) can corrode at a connection point and throw fluid anywhere. I had to literally jack up the front of the vehicle and have my wife turn the wheels with them off the groundl to find the pinhole in the tube - but I was losing enough fluid that I knew I had a true leak.

A few other questions - did the PS pump get changed when they did the rack? In addition to difficulty turning, do you have any vibration or shudder? Any hissing or squealing from the pump or rack?

If the pump wasn't changed before or with the rack, my first thought would be to check the lines as NG mentioned and then suspect a failing pump. Bad seals on a PS pump can easily let air into the system to cause problems without losing a noticeable amount of fluid (a few mLs) from the reservoir.
It seems like theres some seepage around one of the boots. The car has never been nor is currently in a rust area so I am not concerned about that. I have not gotten any kind of whining except for a few cold mornings and that is what prompted me to change the inlet gasket. I'll probably replace the pump and have my mechanic check for any leaks in the system, but if it requires an expensive repair bill I'll just leave it be for a while. Like I said I haven't had to add any PS fluid since I purchased the car.
 
#8 ·
Jack - this link is to an Odyssey forum that give simple directions for draining and filling the entire PS system, if you wanted to go that route. You said you changed the fluid - did you use Honda OEM? My understanding is the pumps and racks really dislike other PS fluids. Look at John Clarke's comments in post #9 for drain/fill the entire system (you really just remove the hose and then turn repeatedly):

 
#10 ·
Sorry to bring this post back up again, but I noticed some drips underneath my car over the past few days. At first I was thinking it was A/C condensation but realized it wasn't going away later in the day. I crawled underneath and realized my rack and pinion is leaking a lot of fluid. The PS fluid reservoir is showing a little below minimum. I will go buy some fluid tomorrow.

I'm assuming I'll need to rebuild/replace the rack and pinion relatively soon. Is there any kind of "quick fix" I can try? It seems really odd that
A) the rack and pinion would have been replaced at 152,000 miles-- I currently have 195,000 on it
B) Why the heck is it causing problems AGAIN?

I've attached pictures just in case anyone has any additional insight or advice. Thank you!
138525
138526
 
#11 ·
Sorry to bring this post back up again, but I noticed some drips underneath my car over the past few days. At first I was thinking it was A/C condensation but realized it wasn't going away later in the day. I crawled underneath and realized my rack and pinion is leaking a lot of fluid. The PS fluid reservoir is showing a little below minimum. I will go buy some fluid tomorrow.

I'm assuming I'll need to rebuild/replace the rack and pinion relatively soon. Is there any kind of "quick fix" I can try? It seems really odd that
A) the rack and pinion would have been replaced at 152,000 miles-- I currently have 195,000 on it
B) Why the heck is it causing problems AGAIN?

I've attached pictures just in case anyone has any additional insight or advice. Thank you! View attachment 138525 View attachment 138526
The fluid is not from a hose conection? Sometimes these are not tightened well or the rubber O-ring under the conection was not installed properly.
 
#28 ·
My guess is you might have a leak and/or pinhole in the low pressure return side. When the fluid drops below minimum there's not enough pressure on that side to force the fluid out.

I only say this because I had a similar problem on my '03 - it took me a few weeks before I found a pinhole on the metal line that runs along the frame rail, after 15+ years the rust ate a spot where the frame bracket connected to the line.

If you pop the cap off the reservoir with the car running, and you see bubbles/froth on top of the PS fluid, then you have an air leak and most likely a hole (or seriously compromised seal) somewhere in the system. If it's a connection on the lines at the rack I think it's likely pushing oil out and not allowing air in but I'm not positive so maybe NG or DG or somebody else can comment if a bad O-ring on the rack can allow air into the system .

Regardless, just looking for froth on the top of your PS fluid is a simple diagnostic and may help you at least determine what type of leak you're for...

good luck!
 
#29 ·
This is looking down from the top of the engine. It is clear to me there’s a lot of leakage coming from where those 2 power steering lines are. Once I get home I’ll try and clean them off and see if they’re loose or something. If they are leaking somewhere, I’ll have my mechanic take a look and hopefully that’s a relatively cheap fix.
Sorry for the bad picture. It’s pretty difficult to get a good pic from that angle.


138562
 
#30 ·
This is looking down from the top of the engine. It is clear to me there’s a lot of leakage coming from where those 2 power steering lines are. Once I get home I’ll try and clean them off and see if they’re loose or something. If they are leaking somewhere, I’ll have my mechanic take a look and hopefully that’s a relatively cheap fix.
Sorry for the bad picture. It’s pretty difficult to get a good pic from that angle.


View attachment 138562
Ok, will have to take your word for it. 😁 Hopefully an easy fix.
 
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#31 ·
I have good news to report. My mechanic cleaned everything off, ran it for a while. They found a leak coming from some of the lines. The shop that did the work installed everything a little whacky.
I ended up spending $98 just for their labor. Definitely better than the $1,500 they were quoting. Apparently there are very few brands that actually last.
 
#32 ·
#39 ·
I have fluid coming from the boot, significantly worse when the wheels are turned to point left. I'm assuming its rack replacement time. 2 questions

1) is this something a DIY guy can do with a decent amount of experience, or should I just punt and take it to the shop?

2) is the stop leak going to even be worth a shot at this point?

I don't have a ton of experience on steering racks, but it seems that it's a pretty straightforward fix. It'd also give me an opportunity to replace some suspension parts that are WAY past their prime. Thanks for the help guys!!
 
#41 ·
With such a hard play, I'd go for the field goal attempt with AT-205. IF, and it's a big if these days, you can find it.
 
#46 ·
Hope everyone had great Holidays and Happy New Year. Cleaned up leak around rack and pinion boot from inside the Pilot lifted rug up took the cover off like I said not leaking to bad but it is coming from seal where rack and pinion connectes to steering shaft. Want to get it replaced before leak gets severe and starts leaving oil inside under rug or get air into steering system. Any suggestions where to get the rack and pinion? Thanks Again!
 
#47 ·
Cleaned up leak around rack and pinion boot from inside the Pilot lifted rug up took the cover off like I said not leaking to bad but it is coming from seal where rack and pinion connectes to steering shaft. Want to get it replaced before leak gets severe and starts leaving oil inside under rug or get air into steering system. Any suggestions where to get the rack and pinion?
There's some good suggestions in this thread about trying some sealing products like AT-205, hoses and better clamps before moving onto the steering rack replacement. The rack replacement will involve lowering the subframe making the task challenging without a lift. Check out the selection on Rock Auto, online venders and auto parts stores. Some reviews were not positive on some brands of remanufactured steering racks. Should you decide on a steering rack replacement post your decision on the brand, challenges and tips of your repair.
 
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