Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,763 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just completed a day long emergency driving course , it consisted of three components which were all put together @ the end of the day to form the track course which one must complete in under two minutes. Skidpad driving was another component but was not part of the track course. The three components were: emergency lane change/collision avoidance, threshold braking & tactical driving in reverse.

I won't bore you with all the details because I know that everyone in this forum is a responsible & competent driver, but there is one reason I'm sharing this information. The instructors showed me a new hand positioning for steering maneuvers, it's called the push/pull technique. This technique ensures that you always have both hands on the steering wheel which is beneficial when maintaining control of a vehicle specially in an emergency situation but it can also be used in normal driving conditions.

Push/pull steering technique:

-hands in the usual 3 o'clock & 9 o'clock

-when making right hand turn, push wheel with left hand until 12 o'clock,
without removing right hand off the wheel slide to 12 o'clock then pull to 3 o'clock, slide left hand back to 9 o'clock, repeat if required ie making sharp turn

-reverse steps after turn to straighten vehicle or when making left hand turn

-remember to push first then pull & always have both hands on the wheel


This technique proved itself to me in the track, now I've implemented it in my daily driving. Give it a try & see if it works for you, perhaps some of you already practice this or another technique.

Let's keep our streets safe for all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,140 Posts
borg said:
I just completed a day long emergency driving course , it consisted of three components which were all put together @ the end of the day to form the track course which one must complete in under two minutes. Skidpad driving was another component but was not part of the track course. The three components were: emergency lane change/collision avoidance, threshold braking & tactical driving in reverse.

I won't bore you with all the details because I know that everyone in this forum is a responsible & competent driver, but there is one reason I'm sharing this information. The instructors showed me a new hand positioning for steering maneuvers, it's called the push/pull technique. This technique ensures that you always have both hands on the steering wheel which is beneficial when maintaining control of a vehicle specially in an emergency situation but it can also be used in normal driving conditions.

Push/pull steering technique:

-hands in the usual 3 o'clock & 9 o'clock

-when making right hand turn, push wheel with left hand until 12 o'clock,
without removing right hand off the wheel slide to 12 o'clock then pull to 3 o'clock, slide left hand back to 9 o'clock, repeat if required ie making sharp turn

-reverse steps after turn to straighten vehicle or when making left hand turn

-remember to push first then pull & always have both hands on the wheel


This technique proved itself to me in the track, now I've implemented it in my daily driving. Give it a try & see if it works for you, perhaps some of you already practice this or another technique.

Let's keep our streets safe for all.
Yes works well code 3.

I have leaned it a few ways. It works with the old 10:00 /2:00 hand positions also.
The general rulles are;
1) Never have only one hand on the wheel.
2) Never cross your arms.
3) At least one hand ALWAYS had a tight grip
4) The hand that is sliding is always ready to take over the grip.

No hand over hand, like they teach in regular drivers ed.
No cross arm steering like they teach in racing.
 

·
Admin Du Jour ®
Joined
·
989 Posts
Good tips; it's been about 13 yrs since I last did a performance driving class (police) and those were the techniques then. We actually did training on a closed runway @ a local airport -- pretty cool.

IIRC we called the "push/pull" method the "shuffle" but it was just as you describe. Very useful, but I must admit that it's easier on cars with "tighter" steering...the Pilot/MDX are fairly loose and it's difficult to implement for turns >=90 degrees. Curious as to your thoughts. (of course, we don't make that many turns > 90', do we? ;))

Also, if you don't mind -- can you share their description and explanation of benefits for threshhold braking, specifically as it relates to ABS-equipped cars?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,763 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
The Worm:

I have to take the course every three years(accreditation), this is the first year that I was instructed in the push/pull technique, all the other driving exercise were the same.

It's a chore to use the push/pull in the Pilot when making turns >=90 degrees but it can be done, it does require practice & I find myself reverting to old habits until I correct myself.

The treshold braking exercise required you to drive @ 60 km/hr minimum upon entering the start line of the lane which is about 50 feet, as soon as you cross the start line you perform treshold brake then a quick 90 degree right turn & then a quick 90 degree left turn to exit in full acceleration.

We drove both abs & non abs cars, when treshold braking with abs equipped cars the instructors told us to apply the brakes & let the abs system take over, since you cant lock up the tires you never loose your steering control.

The non abs cars were a bit more of a challenge, you apply the brakes almost to the point of losing traction but before that happens you ease off on the brakes just enough to get the tires rollling again so you can steer to the right(no traction=no steering), then coast to the next turn & accelerate out of the shute.
 

·
Admin Du Jour ®
Joined
·
989 Posts
Thanks for the additional info. I was curious about the threshhold braking since, like you said, its purpose is to brake right to the point of loss-of-traction, and ABS does just that (automatically). So I was interested in why they're still teaching it (conceptually it still makes sense, but stomping on the pedal in an ABS-equipped car produces identical results).

At the time I was in the courses, our cars were GMs with 5.7L engines (I think) and vette suspension components. All RWD and no ABS. You could do some wicked manuevers with that setup :D

The push/pull technique is excellent for most turns, including sweeping turns where you'd otherwise be "lazy" and have your hands mispositioned and you drive through it. I suppose in reality the push/pull technique is less important on a "normal speed" 90 degree "intersection type" turn since your speed is typically so low that evasive manuevers would probably not be needed. Of course, if you're barrelling with lights and sirens and doing a 90 degree turn w/drift, it makes a lot of sense!

I remember the hardest part of threshhold braking wasn't being able to sense when loss-of-traction was first occurring then backing off, but it was avoiding the "normal braking" habit of easing up on the brakes right before 0mph to avoid jerking all the passengers around -- since in an emergency you want to STOP (and steer) and the comfort of passengers isn't first priority in that case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
So are you guys trying to say that the old "Brooklyn" method of having your left foot hanging out the window and your left hand hold the steering wheel at 6 o'clock while your right arm is wrapped around your girlfriend is NOT safe?

:18:


Seriously though, great thread. I haven't taken a driving course for quite a while either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,838 Posts
borg said:
The Worm: It's a chore to use the push/pull in the Pilot when making turns >=90 degrees but it can be done, it does require practice & I find myself reverting to old habits until I correct myself.
Yes, the Pilot's wheel seems to have a lot of travel (I think, at least 3 full turns, stop to stop.) I still find myself using the hand-over-hand technique I was originally taught in driver's ed. I really need to break the habit.

I take a 6-hour accident prevention course every 3 years for the insurance discount. For the past 10 years or so, they've recommended hands on the wheel at 8 an 4 o'clock because all cars now have airbags. And they also recommend that steering technique, but I've simply heard it referred to as the "shuffle". If your arm crosses over the wheel, and the airbag deploys, you'll smack yourself in the face pretty damn hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
Borg...


Funny thing is, that cartoon, shamefully, resembles me in my youth! Oh, how times change!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,763 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
FYI........Experts now say threshold braking more effective than ABS!!!!


Just finished another driving course, the instructors have deviated from teaching drivers to rely on the use of ABS for collision avoidance maneuvers.

They offered stats gathered in the last 10 yrs indicating that threshold braking was more effective by a wide margin compared to using ABS. This 1 day course came on the last day of week 1 of 3 weeks training, I was so tired from the previous days training that I didnt bother asking the instructors who,what,where,when,why & how the aforementioned stat was gathered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,838 Posts
borg said:
FYI........Experts now say threshold braking more effective than ABS!!!!


Ok, what exactly is threshold braking? Most professional drivers don't like ABS or traction control because they don't need it at they can't do controlled skids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,763 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Threshold braking

Application of the brakes to maximum just before lock up occurs. So in an emergency stop where traffic ahead stops unexpectedly, first you must slow your vehicle using threshold braking, ease up on the brakes just enough to maintain traction then back on the brakes to a full stop.

ABS was designed specifically to regulate threshold braking for the driver but now the experts are saying that proper application of threshold braking manually is more effective.

Of course road conditions will offer varying results but the instructors stated that the drivers employing threshold braking consistently stopped sooner than the drivers relying on ABS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,140 Posts
borg said:
Threshold braking

Application of the brakes to maximum just before lock up occurs. So in an emergency stop where traffic ahead stops unexpectedly, first you must slow your vehicle using threshold braking, ease up on the brakes just enough to maintain traction then back on the brakes to a full stop.

ABS was designed specifically to regulate threshold braking for the driver but now the experts are saying that proper application of threshold braking manually is more effective.

Of course road conditions will offer varying results but the instructors stated that the drivers employing threshold braking consistently stopped sooner than the drivers relying on ABS.
AND, Threshold braking by the driver assumes that all wwheels have the same lock-up point.

ABS brings each wheel to its threshold individually.

The differences are in favor of the driver (if he/she is good at it) on dry smooth surfaces like a freeway or test track, and in favor of the ABS when road conditions are variable, like when wet, on a gravel shoulder, icy patches, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,838 Posts
borg said:
Threshold braking

Application of the brakes to maximum just before lock up occurs. So in an emergency stop where traffic ahead stops unexpectedly, first you must slow your vehicle using threshold braking, ease up on the brakes just enough to maintain traction then back on the brakes to a full stop.

ABS was designed specifically to regulate threshold braking for the driver but now the experts are saying that proper application of threshold braking manually is more effective.

Of course road conditions will offer varying results but the instructors stated that the drivers employing threshold braking consistently stopped sooner than the drivers relying on ABS.
Well, whadayaknow. I've been doing that all along, I just didn't call it anything. Fortunately, I've never been in a situation that anti-lock would have been needed to save my @$$. But I would think that anti-lock brakes are particularly effective on wet, snowy, or icy roads where regaining traction is almost impossible, once you've lost it.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top