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Discussion Starter #1
Just flipped through the manual and noticed that there is no maintenance schedule (e.g. every "X" miles change this fluid). Why was this omitted? I had it in my '04 Pilot and my '08 Odyssey. In the past I always followed everything by the book so that I didn't get unnecessary maintenance being pushed onto me by the dealer.
 

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Maintenance minder:

Owners guide: Pages 147-148
Owners manual: Pages 571-573

It appears to be governed by actual use of the vehicle as opposed to being based on time intervals. This makes sense because some people put a lot more miles on their vehicles during a specific period of time than others do.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
It appears to be governed by actual use of the vehicle as opposed to being based on time intervals. This makes sense because some people put a lot more miles on their vehicles during a specific period of time than others do.
Not a fan of this methodology. In my '04 Pilot used to change my oil every 5K miles, VTM fluid every 30K miles, etc. Everything according to the "spreadsheet" diagram in the manual even though the dealer always pushed for more. I really want to know what the mileage intervals are on the 2017 so A) I don't get talked into unnecessary maintenance and B) I can bundle some items together to reduce the frequency of visits to the dealer. Suppose you replace your oil and on your ride home your transmission fluid light goes on? That means another trip back to the dealer in the near future when you could have had both done at the same time.
 

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... I can bundle some items together to reduce the frequency of visits to the dealer. Suppose you replace your oil and on your ride home your transmission fluid light goes on? That means another trip back to the dealer in the near future when you could have had both done at the same time.
The Maintenance Minder does that for you automatically by "bundling" the other service items as they come due with the next upcoming oil change. Just look for the codes that appear in the display when the oil life gets down to 15% or less.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The Maintenance Minder does that for you automatically by "bundling" the other service items as they come due with the next upcoming oil change. Just look for the codes that appear in the display when the oil life gets down to 15% or less.
Do these codes pop up based on mileage?
Suppose they do. Once the code is cleared when does pop up again? Is it the same mileage starting from once the code was cleared?

While we're on the subject, is there an exact mileage for an oil change?
What about any other mileage minders: brake fluid, brake pads, trans fluid, coolant, timing belt, etc?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Miles and usage type.

Long highway trips result in longer intervals than short in town trips.
Again, I'm not a fan of someone who programmed the vehicle's computer telling me when I need service performed. I'm sure the service departments love it. Does anyone out there have their own system for performing maintenance? If so, I'd like to know what you do.

Some follow-ups:

1) Regarding the indicators that pop up...can they be snoozed like an alarm clock? Or do they stay lit until the service is performed?

2) Are there specific mileage indicators that pop-up like "you're due to for a 60K mile service" or are they more specific and point out only the items you need serviced?

3) What if you get your oil changed and decide to get your trans fluid changed as well to save a trip in the near future. Will the trans fluid light still come on in the near future or is it independently reset by the service dealer even though the indicator was not on to begin with?
 

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You may not be a fan of it, but most modern cars are designed like that to make regular maintenance and ownership a lot easier for the average joe. I'd leave it to these smart people to keep designing smarter cars to do the smarting for us, if you catch my drift.

Once again, I think you are way overthinking the maintenance schedule on the new Pilots. Where's "drive-it-like-you-stole-it" guy when you neeed him?
 

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AFAIK only the oil change interval changes with driving conditions. All other intervals are based exclusively on mileage. As already noted, upcoming intervals will be "bundled" with an oil change if you follow the MM.
If you want to see the intervals being used, look at a manual for an older Pilot on owners.honda.com. Most of them haven't changed since the days before "maintenance minders". AFAIK the MM isn't smart enough to follow "extreme service" schedule if driving conditions warrant that. So you would just do those extra items ( mostly fluid and filter changes ) without resetting the MM ( unless you're resetting it for an oil change ).
MM is helpful for the vast majority of drivers who just drive their cars without thinking about them very much, and never post on car forums or even know they exist.
 

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While there is nothing wrong with preferring old-style mileage-based service intervals, the MM is only a slighty-more-automated version of the same. It breaks out maintenance in groups of services with an alpha code (A or B) for routine maintenance that typically occurs at oil-change intervals (e.g, around 7.5K miles typically), and a numeric code (1 to 6) for bundles of other services that occur at longer intervals.

Internally, the system has separate counters for each code. When you reach one of the A or B service intervals, it will display this code plus one or more numeric codes for any other services that have come due. For example, you might get a A16 code which means that you need to do an oil change (A), a tire rotation (1), and a VTM4 differential fluid change (6).

When you do the service, you (or the mechanic) resets the system. With this reset, the counters are reset for the codes displayed at this time. Other counters continue to accumulate mileage until they get tripped. The codes in the dash can be ignored indefinitely, but they'll pop up every time the car is started and stay lit until you manually press a button to cycle the display. Honda becomes a little more "in your face" with the codes as you go from the "15% - service upcoming" display to the "you're overdue" display, but I don't recall the exact progression. The system is owner-resettable though, so if you just want to completely ignore it, just reset it when it first comes up and the display goes away until the next service interval. As automated maintenance systems go, Honda's is reasonably simple and straightforward and I think we need to commend Honda for providing a way for the owner to easily reset the system. It's a lot more DIY-friendly that the German cars, for example.

The system does take into account factors other mileage that Honda thinks predict the need for servicing. No one has any information on what these factors are, but certainly things like number of cold starts or how much stop and go traffic the car has experienced are probably represented. It is a good assumption that the MN's algorithm probably does a better job of predicting when servicing is needed than just mileage.

I don't think the system is a ruse to have you perform more maintenance. In fact, dealers hate the system because they much prefer the standard 7.5K, 15K, 30K, 60K, etc. fixed maintenance intervals where the owner rolls in and says the car needs a "30K check" and the dealer can haul out their own inflated service schedule and charge more for stuff that takes very little time (if anything is done at all). They'll generally recommend unnecessary services whether you give them the MM codes are not. So this little battle of getting them to only service what Honda says needs to be serviced has to be fought whether you use your own mileage schedule or the MM system. This is probably the strongest reason to ditch the dealer and find a good independent mechanic for routine servicing of a car out of warranty.

So I think you need to put down the pitchfork and just evaluate that system as an automated version of the mileage-tracking you're used to doing. You can still get the dealer to do services a-la-carte and the MM system bundles services into the coding scheme in a fairly granular and logical manner.

What the MM doesn't do is support longer-term planning of maintenance. For example, is the "3" service requiring an ATF change going to happen in the next service interval or four service intervals down the road? It also has no provision to deviate from the Honda-recommended service intervals on one item while keeping them in place for other services. In this regard, if the main reason you want to deviate is simply to shorten oil-change-intervals, this is best addressed by doing an oil-change at around half the MM-recommended service interval and NOT resetting the MM system at this time. For most, this is around 4-5K miles. This keeps everything in sync. But doing complicated stuff like resetting "3" when you do it prematurely when it hasn't displayed yet is not possible.

Personally, I think the MM service intervals are a pretty good compromise and short-enough for most things. I use the system. But if you're a really maintenance fanatic and routinely like to do much more maintenance than recommended, I'd just ignore the system all-together and use the 2005 intervals as a start, modifying as you see fit to your more rigorous requirements. But if you think the 2005 intervals are good, then I see little benefit to substituting a fixed-mileage service schedule in place of the the MM system. The MM system should lower servicing costs.

- Mark
 

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Do these codes pop up based on mileage?
Suppose they do. Once the code is cleared when does pop up again? Is it the same mileage starting from once the code was cleared?
More or less, depending upon any variation in the calculated length of the oil change interval.

While we're on the subject, is there an exact mileage for an oil change?
What about any other mileage minders: brake fluid, brake pads, trans fluid, coolant, timing belt, etc?
The nominal oil change interval still seems to be about 7,500 miles, the same as was recommended based upon "normal" operating conditions for your '04 Pilot.
According to reports from owners on this forum, the oil change interval as calculated by the maintenance minder can vary by up to about +/-50% depending upon the conditions under which the vehicle is driven.
 

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Not a fan of this methodology. In my '04 Pilot used to change my oil every 5K miles, VTM fluid every 30K miles, etc. Everything according to the "spreadsheet" diagram in the manual even though the dealer always pushed for more. I really want to know what the mileage intervals are on the 2017 so A) I don't get talked into unnecessary maintenance and B) I can bundle some items together to reduce the frequency of visits to the dealer. Suppose you replace your oil and on your ride home your transmission fluid light goes on? That means another trip back to the dealer in the near future when you could have had both done at the same time.

This methodology was very clearly explained/discussed by my salesperson prior to purchase because I asked. There seems to be a number of things that seem like fairly substantial issues for you that never came up when you were at the dealer. Getting your questions answered before giving them your hard earned money might be in order for future purchases.

You were getting "talked into" maintenance your previous vehicle may not have needed based on some foolish piece of paper designed to put money into the pockets of the "stealerships." Your vehicle now senses use/wear and that is what determines oil life, et al. Makes far more sense.

Nothing stops you from asking your service advisor whether you're within a reasonable interval of another service and can knock off another while you're there.
 

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"Nothing stops you from asking your service advisor whether you're within a reasonable interval of another service and can knock off another while you're there"

And nothing stops you from changing oil or whatever whenever you want. The MM doesn't force you to do anything. It's my first vehicle with this system, and it took a little while to figure it out and get used to it.
 

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There is nothing wrong with you creating your own maintenance schedule. I had doubts with my 05 and its 7500 mile interval. Felt too long after years of doing 5000 oil changes. All I know is that after 230k at 7500 intervals and its driving fine. Sticking to the frequency of 5000 can only help in the long haul.
I trust Honda engineers to be better qualified at determining OCIs than I or a dealership service adviser.
 

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Not a fan of this methodology. In my '04 Pilot used to change my oil every 5K miles, VTM fluid every 30K miles, etc. Everything according to the "spreadsheet" diagram in the manual even though the dealer always pushed for more. I really want to know what the mileage intervals are on the 2017 so A) I don't get talked into unnecessary maintenance and B) I can bundle some items together to reduce the frequency of visits to the dealer. Suppose you replace your oil and on your ride home your transmission fluid light goes on? That means another trip back to the dealer in the near future when you could have had both done at the same time.
 

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I agree completely. Puts you almost totally at the mercy of the dealers. First car I ever owned without a printed maintenance schedule and will be the last. I'll be checking Toyota for my next car.
 

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I agree completely. Puts you almost totally at the mercy of the dealers. First car I ever owned without a printed maintenance schedule and will be the last. I'll be checking Toyota for my next car.
How does it put you at the mercy of the dealers? It's the car that brings up what it recommends needing done, not the dealers. If anything, a generic printed schedule based on mileage puts someone more at the mercy of that schedule dictating what needs to be done at certain mileage even if the car might not need it just yet (like some schedules saying to do oil changes every 3,750 miles, when most of today's cars can go well into 5,000-10,000 range depending on how they are driven, which is what Maintenance Minder would be able to tell).
 

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I agree completely. Puts you almost totally at the mercy of the dealers. First car I ever owned without a printed maintenance schedule and will be the last. I'll be checking Toyota for my next car.
Actually, the car protects you from unscrupulous dealers by telling you what work is needed and when. Next time you go to a dealer just watch as they pull out some pre printed, laminated sheet showing all kinds of profiteering opportunities for them like intake cleaning, fuel system cleaning, nitrogen tire filling....look for service advisers to come out with worried look saying you need an alignment.....

The maintenance minder tells you exactly what the car needs. Use it to your advantage and protection. Some things are really easy to do. Changing the cabin and engine air filters is easy as changing a light bulb. The only things it cannot tell is when the brake pads or tires are worn out.
 
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