Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, all.

I'll try to stay short:

Transmission drain bolt hold threads (not the ones on the actual bolt, but on the aluminum housing) stripped out at some point. I had no idea, but found fluid on my garage floor. 3rd party warranty is shady and doesn't want to pay, though I'm fighting it.

Dealership says I need a whole new transmission. If warranty company is footing the 3k bill, that's fine, but I'm trying to figure out my best option. Warranty company won't even look at it for 3 days, and then they have to give the ok for work to start, and I'm without my pilot for an upcoming road trip.

Alternatively, my local trusted mechanic says "Why don't they just replace the pan?" which I asked Honda, but the guy said they can only replace the whole trans--the housing is all one piece.

If that's true, local trusted mechanic also said he could likely just tap a larger bolt, or install a helicoil

Any input on this situation, advice, etc., would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hi, all.

I'll try to stay short:

Transmission drain bolt hold threads (not the ones on the actual bolt, but on the aluminum housing) stripped out at some point. I had no idea, but found fluid on my garage floor. 3rd party warranty is shady and doesn't want to pay, though I'm fighting it.

Dealership says I need a whole new transmission. If warranty company is footing the 3k bill, that's fine, but I'm trying to figure out my best option. Warranty company won't even look at it for 3 days, and then they have to give the ok for work to start, and I'm without my pilot for an upcoming road trip.

Alternatively, my local trusted mechanic says "Why don't they just replace the pan?" which I asked Honda, but the guy said they can only replace the whole trans--the housing is all one piece.

If that's true, local trusted mechanic also said he could likely just tap a larger bolt, or install a helicoil

Any input on this situation, advice, etc., would be much appreciated. Thanks!
I should say, please feel free to call out whoever might be wrong or full of it in the above scenario. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
1) Try a slightly longer bolt. Put thread sealant on the threads and washer, go easy on the tightening torque. This can easily "get you by" until you get the proper thread repair stuff.
2) Try a thread repair sleeve. Requires that you tap the hole larger for the insert, screw the insert in, stake the insert so it stays. I use Time-Sert, but the kit is a little spendy compared with Heli-Coil. Enough better to make it worthwhile in my little hobby workshop.
3) Heli-Coil is popular and inexpensive option, but isn't always the best longer-term solution; the wire coil will pull out if the bolt doesn't go deep enough.

I've seen true thread repair kluges where somebody just tapped the hole to the next larger USS size and used a USS-threaded bolt. Many last forever that way, but of course it's a ticking time-bomb for the guy that doesn't know it's been kluged. Not nearly as elegant nor correct as an insert sleeve like a Time-Sert, but it can keep the fluid from falling out on the floor.

TL;DR:
Re-tapping a blind hole like this requires that you use a 3-taps method, and you may want to consider the same if you want to try the longer-bolt option. Taps come in taper, plug, and bottoming shapes. Common to see taper taps, as those are easy, self-guiding for the most part, and can easily tap most through-holes with little effort. The fun starts when you are trying to thread a blind hole, one where that hole doesn't go all the way through. For those, you work your way to the plug and bottoming taps to get full-sized threads all the way back to the end of the blind hole. The challenge is knowing when to stop turning the tap. You end up doing a lot of in-a-little, out-a-lot twisting on the tap, cleaning the chips frequently. Don't Break The Tap Off In The Hole, as it is a royal PITA extracting a broken tap that's tight in there. There are typically three or four partial threads in the bottom of a blind hole after a taper tap, and those partial threads are what you will enlarge with the next two taps. You'll be able to hold the taps up to each other and see how much each does. Use a pencil as a probe to find the depth of the hole too. Use a proper tap wrench, rather than trying to add straight threads with a crescent wrench on the tap. Places like Ace Hardware might have the 3-tap sets, else an industrial hardware store as your next choice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aggrex and 930reef

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,919 Posts
2) Try a thread repair sleeve. Requires that you tap the hole larger for the insert, screw the insert in, stake the insert so it stays. I use Time-Sert, but the kit is a little spendy compared with Heli-Coil. Enough better to make it worthwhile in my little hobby workshop.
3) Heli-Coil is popular and inexpensive option, but isn't always the best longer-term solution; the wire coil will pull out if the bolt doesn't go deep enough.
Time-sert likes to call themselves the solution for when a Heli-coil fails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
It does not have a pan. You would have to replace one of the housing which would require a tear down. I have not seen it but I would try and use a thread repair method. Either a helicoil or time-sert. You may not be able to get the dealership to go that route. There is no way I would not try that option first.

Maybe call around to a couple of independent shops and see what they say.

It seems like there was a post not long ago about someone who had a similar problem and ended up using a drain plug for a different make and model because it was longer. Basically it used the deeper part of the threads compared to the Honda drain plug.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
1) Try a slightly longer bolt. Put thread sealant on the threads and washer, go easy on the tightening torque. This can easily "get you by" until you get the proper thread repair stuff.
2) Try a thread repair sleeve. Requires that you tap the hole larger for the insert, screw the insert in, stake the insert so it stays. I use Time-Sert, but the kit is a little spendy compared with Heli-Coil. Enough better to make it worthwhile in my little hobby workshop.
3) Heli-Coil is popular and inexpensive option, but isn't always the best longer-term solution; the wire coil will pull out if the bolt doesn't go deep enough.

I've seen true thread repair kluges where somebody just tapped the hole to the next larger USS size and used a USS-threaded bolt. Many last forever that way, but of course it's a ticking time-bomb for the guy that doesn't know it's been kluged. Not nearly as elegant nor correct as an insert sleeve like a Time-Sert, but it can keep the fluid from falling out on the floor.

TL;DR:
Re-tapping a blind hole like this requires that you use a 3-taps method, and you may want to consider the same if you want to try the longer-bolt option. Taps come in taper, plug, and bottoming shapes. Common to see taper taps, as those are easy, self-guiding for the most part, and can easily tap most through-holes with little effort. The fun starts when you are trying to thread a blind hole, one where that hole doesn't go all the way through. For those, you work your way to the plug and bottoming taps to get full-sized threads all the way back to the end of the blind hole. The challenge is knowing when to stop turning the tap. You end up doing a lot of in-a-little, out-a-lot twisting on the tap, cleaning the chips frequently. Don't Break The Tap Off In The Hole, as it is a royal PITA extracting a broken tap that's tight in there. There are typically three or four partial threads in the bottom of a blind hole after a taper tap, and those partial threads are what you will enlarge with the next two taps. You'll be able to hold the taps up to each other and see how much each does. Use a pencil as a probe to find the depth of the hole too. Use a proper tap wrench, rather than trying to add straight threads with a crescent wrench on the tap. Places like Ace Hardware might have the 3-tap sets, else an industrial hardware store as your next choice.
This is great advice/info. I don't trust myself tapping just yet (I'm a woodworker, not an auto guy), but my local trusted mechanic says he can do a threaded insert no problem. I'll order the time-sert even if it's more expensive. Anything cheaper than the 3-4 grand they want for a new trans, which works fine otherwise, and it seems like everyone agrees that it's way better.

Part of me doesn't even want to wait for the warranty company to take 3 days to come out and likely still deny. I am supposed to be roadtripping on Friday, and there's no way a new trans is going to be ready by then even if they approve, since they'll be out Wednesday earliest. If I don't have the pilot back I'm driving a family of 4 to Dallas in my 2012 Civic. Great gas mileage, but... :)

I need to find the proper size of the time-sert I'll need. 2015 EXL 4WD. Anybody know? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It does not have a pan. You would have to replace one of the housing which would require a tear down. I have not seen it but I would try and use a thread repair method. Either a helicoil or time-sert. You may not be able to get the dealership to go that route. There is no way I would not try that option first.

Maybe call around to a couple of independent shops and see what they say.

It seems like there was a post not long ago about someone who had a similar problem and ended up using a drain plug for a different make and model because it was longer. Basically it used the deeper part of the threads compared to the Honda drain plug.
Awesome! Thanks! I think I'll go the time-sert route with my local guy since I have to drive from Chicago to Dallas at the end of the week. Any idea on the time-sert size I'd need for this application? (I'm also googling for this answer, but have so far come up empty.) Thanks in advance!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,728 Posts
Helicoil or Time-Sert are the two I've seen on many forums over the years. If you aren't comfortable doing it a skilled mechanic should be able to do this very quickly for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
955 Posts
Helicoil or Time-Sert are the two I've seen on many forums over the years. If you aren't comfortable doing it a skilled mechanic should be able to do this very quickly for you.
I think that Eric O. on South Main Auto channel (Youtube) did a whole episode on this exact fix on a Honda alloy oil pan using a Time Sert repair. Try google to find the episode, as I don't have a link.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I just did the Google, and found the episode. Try: South Main Auto channel Time Sert. If I was as computer savvy as Mr. plplpl, I would provide a link. Too bad, you will have to Google.
Found it! Thanks so much. Exactly what I was looking for. You're a life-saver. For anyone looking at this thread in the future, the only difference between the oil pan in the video on the older Odyssey, and the trans pan drain plug on the 2015 pilot is that the pilot's bolt (and, thus, time-sert kit), is an M18 - 1.5. I ordered the time-sert kit tonight (#1815C) and it's supposed to be here Sunday. Should hopefully work! The "C" on 1815C means it's for a drain plug, according to Time-Sert. I found it on Amazon for around $250. Pricier than helicoil, but if it does the job, waaaaaay cheaper than new trans like the dealer quoted me ($4000).

Fingers crossed...will update soon once I give it a shot......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
I trust you actually measured the drain plug bolt for the correct thread size. IIRC the M18-1.5 is the thread size for the fill plug; the bolt thread drain is much smaller. We are talking about the socket-head capscrew (Allen-head bolt) where you drain the gearbox case, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Found it! Thanks so much. Exactly what I was looking for. You're a life-saver. For anyone looking at this thread in the future, the only difference between the oil pan in the video on the older Odyssey, and the trans pan drain plug on the 2015 pilot is that the pilot's bolt (and, thus, time-sert kit), is an M18 - 1.5. I ordered the time-sert kit tonight (#1815C) and it's supposed to be here Sunday. Should hopefully work! The "C" on 1815C means it's for a drain plug, according to Time-Sert. I found it on Amazon for around $250. Pricier than helicoil, but if it does the job, waaaaaay cheaper than new trans like the dealer quoted me ($4000).

Fingers crossed...will update soon once I give it a shot......
I trust you actually measured the drain plug bolt for the correct thread size. IIRC the M18-1.5 is the thread size for the fill plug; the bolt thread drain is much smaller. We are talking about the socket-head capscrew (Allen-head bolt) where you drain the gearbox case, right?
I trust you actually measured the drain plug bolt for the correct thread size. IIRC the M18-1.5 is the thread size for the fill plug; the bolt thread drain is much smaller. We are talking about the socket-head capscrew (Allen-head bolt) where you drain the gearbox case, right?
Yep. Transmission drain bolt up front facing the passenger side. 3/8 ratchet head fits in it to remove it. I put a caliper on it, and then confirmed it online as well with the size of an OEM replacement. It looks like 18 -1.5 is correct for the drain. I think on earlier models or on engine oil pan, it might be smaller. But I just double checked and it seems like I've got the right size ordered. Threads are 10mm long on the shaft of the bolt, too, and that matches the length of the time sert insert.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yep. I put a caliper on it, and then confirmed it online as well with the size of an OEM replacement. It looks like 18 -1.5 is correct for the drain. I think on earlier models or on engine oil pan, it might be smaller. But I just double checked and it seems like I've got the right size ordered. Threads are 10mm long on the shaft of the bolt, too, and that matches the length of the time sert insert.
I should say, I'm also going to try the original drainbolt into the insert just to confirm before I start any work. If it's not right, back to Jeff Bezos it goes.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
Sorry for my ignerrantz. I was thinking of a different car. Carry on with scheduled activities... :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sorry for my ignerrantz. I was thinking of a different car. Carry on with scheduled activities... :)
No not at all! Always glad to have as many eyeballs on the problem as possible. At the very least, you made me double check the size before drilling, which is never a bad thing :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Update:
I got the Time Sert kit today. Looks really well made...worth the money.
The only issue is that the 2015 pilot just so happens to have an exhaust pipe that is 6" away from the (stripped) drain hole on the trans, in the same plane. The drill bit that comes with the Time Sert is......6" long. Can barely get the bit in straight, let alone attached to a drill, a right-angle anything, or even to turn by hand. Picture is attached (I know the drain plug in there now is not OEM. It's a longer one that's temporarily installed into the 5 or so still-good threads that are deeper in the hole.

147088


I've ordered another 25/32" drill bit from Amazon for $14 that I'm going to try and cut down into a shorter bit, then try to turn by hand, so I don't ruin that really nice (expensive) bit that came with the Time-Sert kit.

Any thoughts or feedback always appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
You will need to drop the exhaust. You don't have the right access with removing it. My.02: time to pay a pro to do this right, as you will only get one shot to get it correct and errors here will be costly as that is the trans case it is bolted into.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top