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Discussion Starter #1
For all of you that have the Honda Navigation System (and Acura too), it is now approaching two years since the map disc was released.

In my area, the roads have and are changing quite a bit. The businesses have moved, changed or dissappeared. The data is old and becomming more useless every day.

Honda had promised us an update last October, only to move that date to November, then January, now ????????

I can no longer get any information from Honda on this.

Is anyone interested in going together as an owner's group and either flooding them with mail (US Postal) or putting all our names on one letter letting them know how upset we are that we have a $2000 paperweight sitting under our seats?

Do they have any legal exposure for selling us a system, promising regualr updates, and not delivering?

I have held my tongue for many months and now I am really pissed off.

If enough people are interested, I will post to all the honda boards for cars with the Nav.

Jerry Jones
Very Upset Pilot Owner
 

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Hey Jerry...
Good to hear from you again but sorry it's under frustration. That's exactly why I didn't get the NAV system. I was afraid with the on-going road changes I wouldn't get updates. Hope there's a resolution for all NAV owners soon. What about other auto mfgr's? Does everyone have this problem or just Honda? :confused:
 

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I am frustrated with it. I love the GPS system when it works. I went to S. CA to visit a friend, and his home was not on the list. My in laws live in Modesto, CA, and the GPS only list the few main streets. My other brother in law live in Merced, CA and again, we get there, and there are only like 3 or 4 main streets. It is a fully developed city that's been around for years. Modesto was one of the fastest growing city in CA for years, and the GPS has no details for the city. It's incredible. The brother in law who lives in Merced has a lexus LS430 and said his car did not have that problem. All the streets in Merced including his home address is listed. The other gripe is when you punch in a business, like Costco, instead of showing the nearest one, it would show some place 3000 miles away!
 

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A new disc would be nice. Would a disc from another system, say Acura or Alpine work? I live in Los Angeles and here, it works great.
 

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I'd be willing to add my name to a group gripe. :29:

I check for a new DVD regularly via the DVD upgrade link on Honda's "OwnerLink". Most days the link doesn't even work (like today).

I'm lucky; my area's pretty well mapped out. But it's a different story for directory listings, etc. Gas station listings are nearly useless; I would have never thought gas stations come and go so fast 'til I saw all the "phantom icons".

Granted, I haven't picked up the phone to call Honda (or Alpine), as it looks as if others here have been doing a great job in that regard ;)

For those wondering about the NAVI: I still *LOVE* it despite the lack of timely updates, and I'd still blow the $2000 all over again. Don't let this disappointment scare you away (esp if you live in a major metropolitan area). My 2 cents :mblah:
 

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Add my name

Great system, but it becomes old quick with all the construction and changes.

Does anybody know how many of the 90,000 pilots made have NAV?

I have to imagine that anything less than 10k would not be profitable for a new release. 10% would buy the update (1,000) if that many at $150 a dvd, not on their radar--no pun intended.
 

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I would add my name to list for the gripe. You will need a good number of people but there should be a lot out there especially since all of the Honda and Acura navigation systems were the same until 2003 which the next generation Navigation system was released in the the Accord and MDX.

Let me know if you get it started and where you need to add our names.

Just for everyone's knowledge here we have had no problems with the Navi system in our area and my father (2003 Acura CL-S Navi owner) has had no problems in the same area, which is Philadelphia and surrounding areas: eastern PA, NJ, and DE.
 

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Have Latest Status!

I phoned the Honda DVD Navi Order desk at:

888.291.4675

They have a recording regarding the lasted DVD upgrade:

- Available Fall 2003
- $185
- 7.7 million streets to be mapped
- 95% total streets in U.S.
- introduces limited mapping for Canada
- uses a "new algorithm" that will greatly enhance system
- voice recognition *NOT* included

So I'm very bummed on the date; it's pretty far out there. At least they're working on it, however. I was fearing they were neglecting this one on purpose in favor of the new MDX / Accord interface.

:mblah:
 

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This is the best news I've heard on this in months. We have not lost much functionality yet, but I have been concerned. It seems that Honda/Alpine should be able to provide us with a dvd that has all the info already collected for the newer navs. Shouldn't they all be related in some way?? In any event, until they have a track record of supporting these products over time, I think we should be watching closely and Group Griping at will.

BTW, Someone was good enough to indicate that the Honda Ody forum also had the same sort of issues but more info. A while back the info there also indicated that the update was this fall. I don't have time to check right now but will scan that forum latter to see what's up on the date from their perspective.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That is good news about the enhancements coming on the next disk.

The problem in my area is, Orange County Florida has been moving roads like crazy th past couple of years. Around my house there are 4 major roads that have moved with another moving 300 yards East within the next 18 months. A new tollway USN't in the system at all.

Not a big deal since I know my way around here but what about when I travel to other cities? I suspect that the maps over 2 years old become rather inaccurate. Would be nice if they had some way to burn a CD-R and keep some updates from the net in the system's memory so it could be progressively updated. 2.5 years between updates is unacceptable.
 

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GLJones said:
2.5 years between updates is unacceptable.
Agreed... Perhaps this one took a long time due to the new algorithms? They may have had to start from the beginning, rather than modify a bit here and there. If that's the case, later updates may be quicker. Dunno... Just more "blah" from my side, and it is overly optimistic :)

:mblah:
 

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Just to answer the question re: number of NAVs sold, I believe the figure is 6%. 90K*6%= 5400. Not a huge installed base (at least of the Pilots) but you do have to consider the Odys, older Accords, older MDXs, etc. And I also think that the data can be built once and used in both NAV versions (though of course the DVD upgrades themselves will be different as the software/APIs, etc. are different).
 

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I checked the ody forum and the mdx forum. Both have an annoyed group of owners submitting posts. They have the same info that the major dvd upgrade will be in the fall. Originally some had info saying that there would be an April update this year with just minor expansion of maps, but that seems to have gone the way of the other two updates that I've heard about since owning the Pilot. The MDX owners sound most dissatisfied reflecting, I think, some expectation that Acrua would provide the very highest level of service/support. Afterall, that is what they are told/sold.
 

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Please add my name to this group. This is a Honda porduct. Honda should support it and make their customers happy period.
 

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Navigation Technologies

Gang, the company that builds the map data is Navigation Technologies. Calling on Honda may be less effective than calling NavTech directly, especially as deferrals of map releases directly defers revenue for them.

Here is an interesting article that makes me salivate for the future... (sorry, long)

Tech and Gadgets: Traffic updates built in to future BMW and other navigation systems?
Navigation technologies give us a glimpse into the future


NAVIGATION TECHNOLOGIES UNVEILS REAL-TIME TRAFFIC SOLUTION

Traffic Solution Demonstration Provides In-Vehicle Incident and Traffic Flow Information on Chicago's Major Roadways

Chicago, IL - October 14, 2002 -Navigation Technologies, a leading provider of digital maps for vehicle navigation, Internet/wireless applications and business solutions today announced that it will demonstrate its real-time traffic solution which provides in-vehicle incident and traffic flow information for Chicago's major roadways. The traffic demonstration and solution was initiated by Navigation Technologies and leverages numerous industry partners for content, delivery and in-vehicle systems. The solution will be demonstrated at the 9th World Congress on Intelligent Transport Systems (ITS), a global conference and exhibition on transportation technology, taking place in Chicago's Lakeside Center at McCormick Place, October 14-17, 2002.

Navigation Technologies' approach creates an inclusive platform for the aggregation of multiple sources of traffic information from incident and flow to weather and events. The information is combined and merged with NAVTECH® map data through a data fusion process and then delivered to the in-vehicle navigation system through a wireless signal. The solution delivers real-time congestion, incident and road condition information directly to the driver, enabling informed routing decisions.

"We see ourselves acting as a catalyst for a dynamic in-vehicle traffic solution that brings together numerous industry leaders," said John MacLeod, Executive Vice President, North America and World Markets at Navigation Technologies. "Based on our experience in Europe and Japan, we believe that traffic information will increase daily use of navigation and enhance consumer satisfaction."

Navigation Technologies collaborated with numerous industry leaders to make the demonstration and solution a reality. Navigation Technologies and TrafficCast infuse and interpret the data, XM Satellite Radio delivers that data nationwide via satellite and Alpine Electronics of America and Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. provide the navigation systems that bring the solution to life inside the vehicle. Additionally, Nissan North America provided an Infiniti QX4 for the demonstration.

Attendees of the show will have the opportunity to experience the live traffic demonstration by literally driving the roads of Chicago. Participants will experience one of three routes, each originating from McCormick Place, and will see real-time traffic and incident data on the navigation system in the form of icons (construction, accidents and road closures), color-coded streets and/or text information.

"Each of the world class companies we've partnered with provide a unique expertise in their respective arenas," said Chris Page, Product Manager - Traffic, at Navigation Technologies. "This solution is designed specifically for telematics applications. The open architecture allows us to incorporate the highest quality traffic information collected from numerous sources and is expandable as new technology and information become available."

About TrafficCast

TrafficCast (www.trafficcast.com) is the only firm that generates personalized, route-specific real-time and predictive traffic and travel time information for the entire United States. The firm provides current and predicted travel times for more than 400,000 miles coast to coast including Interstate highways, other expressways, and major arterials. By fusing historic traffic patterns, "live" traffic information, weather forecasts, construction and event schedules with accident reports, TrafficCast provides value today, but also has laid the foundation for tomorrow's business in telematics, routing and dispatching, and other location-based consumer and commercial services.

About XM Satellite Radio

XM is transforming radio, an industry that has seen little technological change since FM, almost 40 years ago. XM's programming lineup features 101 coast-to-coast digital channels: 70 music channels, many of them commercial-free, from hip hop to opera, classical to country, bluegrass to blues; and 31 channels of sports, talk, children's and entertainment. XM was named 2001 "Product of the Year" by Fortune, an "Invention of the Year" by Time, won Popular Science's 2001 "Best of What's New" Grand Award in the electronics category, and received a coveted "A" rating from Entertainment Weekly. General Motors recently began selling factory-installed XM radios across 25 different 2003 models. XM is also available on select new vehicles from Honda, Acura, Infiniti, Nissan and Isuzu. XM radios are available at major electronics retailers nationwide. Leading manufacturers such as Sony, Alpine, Pioneer, Delphi and Audiovox offer a broad array of XM radios that easily enable any existing car stereo system. XM's strategic investors include America's leading car, radio and satellite TV companies -- General Motors, American Honda Motor Co. Inc., Clear Channel Communications and DIRECTV. For more information, please visit XM's web site: http://www.xmradio.com.


About Alpine Electronics of America

Alpine Electronics is the world's leading mobile electronics system supplier. Alpine specializes in an integrated platform concept for mobile multimedia with premium components for digital audio/video media playback, digital broadcast reception, security and satellite linked navigation. With research and development facilities in Asia, Europe and the U.S., Alpine is the global leader for in-vehicle navigation systems in Japan, North America and Europe for both after-market and OEM factory installations. Alpine Electronics is a consolidated subsidiary of Alps Electric Co., Ltd., one of the world's premier manufacturers of electronic components for computer, communications and car electronics equipment. Alpine is the Alps Group's specialized supplier of high quality mobile electronics systems. Visit Alpine at www.alpine.com to learn more about mobile multimedia excellence or www.alpine-usa.com to find the closest dealer.

About Pioneer

Pioneer's Mobile Entertainment Division is the leading manufacturer of audio, video and information products for in-car use. Its focus is on the development of new digital technologies including visual/audio, navigation, and satellite radio, while maintaining its strong heritage in products for car audio enthusiasts and competitors. The company markets its products under the Pioneer and Premier brand names. When purchased from an authorized dealer, consumers receive a limited warranty for one year with Pioneer products and two years for Premier products.

Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc. is headquartered in Long Beach, Calif., and its U.S. Web address is www.pioneerelectronics.com. Its parent company, Pioneer Corporation, is a leader in optical disc technology and a preeminent manufacturer of high-performance audio, video, computer and cable television equipment for the home, car and business markets. Pioneer Corporation focuses on four core business domains including DVD, display technologies, Digital Network Entertainment and components. Founded in 1938 in Tokyo, Pioneer Corporation and its affiliates employ more than 31,000 people worldwide. Its shares are traded on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE: PIO).

About Navigation Technologies

Navigation Technologies creates the digital maps that power navigation and location-based services around the world. The Chicago-based company was founded in 1985 and is privately held. The company's 1,200 employees are in over 100 offices in 18 countries. For more information, visit www.navtech.com.

NAVIGATION TECHNOLOGIES AND ITIS AGREE TO TRAFFIC SOLUTION EXPLORATION

Navigation Technologies Spearheads North American In-Vehicle Traffic Solution

Chicago, IL October 15, 2002 -- Navigation Technologies, a leading provider of digital maps for vehicle navigation, Internet/wireless applications and business solutions, and ITIS, a leading provider of traffic and travel information, today announced their agreement to explore including ITIS traffic flow information in Navigation Technologies' recently announced traffic solution.

The two companies plan to work together to fuse Navigation Technologies' NAVTECH map data with ITIS' Floating Vehicle Data (FVD?) process which collects, analyzes and forecasts travel times using speed and location data from probe vehicles. Probe data is compiled primarily from fleet vehicles operating on strategic roadways. ITIS and Navigation Technologies expect to begin deploying probe vehicles in North America in 2003.

Navigation Technologies is spearheading a traffic solution that leverages the expertise of numerous industry partners to assist drivers by delivering real-time congestion, incident and road condition information directly to in-vehicle navigation systems.

The Navigation Technologies solution will provide traffic information collected from numerous sources; combined and merged with NAVTECH map data through a data fusion process. Traffic information is then delivered to the in-vehicle navigation system through a wireless signal allowing drivers to make informed routing decisions.

"We are pleased to be working with the world's best map data provider. We're confident that Navigation Technologies' NAVTECH maps combined with our Floating Vehicle Data will add an important element to the North American traffic solution," said Stuart Marks, Chief Executive, ITIS.

"Flow data is a critical component to supporting advanced traffic and navigation applications. ITIS has successfully deployed FVD? in the United Kingdom and we?re excited to play a part in introducing their technology to North America," said John MacLeod, Executive Vice President, North American and World Markets, Navigation Technologies Corporation.



NAVIGATION TECHNOLOGIES AND MOBILITY TECHNOLOGIES AGREE TO TRAFFIC SOLUTION EXPLORATION

Navigation Technologies Spearheads North American Traffic Solution

Chicago, IL October 15, 2002 -- Navigation Technologies, a leading provider of digital maps for vehicle navigation, Internet/wireless applications and business solutions, and Mobility Technologies, a traffic industry leader, today announced their agreement to explore combining Mobility Technologies' traffic incident and flow information with Navigation Technologies' NAVTECH map data as part of a real-time traffic solution.

Navigation Technologies is spearheading a traffic solution that leverages the expertise of numerous industry partners to assist drivers by delivering real-time congestion, incident and road condition information directly to in-vehicle navigation systems.

"We look forward to partnering with Navigation Technologies to meet the needs of the emerging telematics industry. Our goal is to bring critical information we're collecting and processing in major markets directly to drivers in their cars so they can make informed decisions," said David L. Jannetta, President of Mobility Technologies.

The Navigation Technologies solution will provide traffic information collected from numerous sources; combined and merged with NAVTECH map data through a data fusion process. Traffic information will then be delivered to the in-vehicle navigation system through a wireless signal allowing drivers to make informed routing decisions. A demonstration of the traffic solution has been unveiled at Intelligent Transportation Systems (ITS) World Congress in Chicago being held at McCormick Place from October 14-17.

"Mobility has proven its ability to deliver high quality traffic information to the marketplace. We are excited about linking live traffic data with dynamic navigation," said John MacLeod, Executive Vice President, North American and World Markets, Navigation Technologies Corporation.

About Mobility Technologies

Mobility Technologies provides traffic and transportation security information products and services. Mobility, through its distinctive Traffic Pulse collection and processing technologies, supplies highly differentiated information products and services to a customer base that includes over 100 radio and TV stations (through its Traffic Pulse Networks SM group) commercial fleets, wireless carriers, consumers and government agencies. In partnership with USDOT, Mobility is deploying a traffic data collection and processing infrastructure in major markets to provide traffic congestion information via broadcast, Web and telephone delivery.
 

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Bigrob - this is interesting. I have seen it before, but thanks for posting. Hopefully, in the future when the nav goes to a real time system they will manage to keep the onboard software mapping up to date so that you don't get bogus routing info. BTW I think that it makes sense to track navtech for progress on updating, but I think we should pressure Honda to keep the mapping info current - they have the leverage over navtech.
 

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Any news on the Navi update?
 

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Could this be for us?

Bigrob stated that NavTech supplied the maps for the Pilot NAV and we have heard that an updated DVD is due in the fall. NAVTECH posted the following announcement on their website, could it be for our nav systems?:

NAVIGATION TECHNOLOGIES ENHANCES NAVTECH® MAPS TO INCLUDE OVER 13 MILLION POINTS OF INTEREST (POIs) IN NORTH AMERICA

D&B's North American Business Information Supports Ongoing Evolution of NAVTECH Digital Maps

Chicago, IL - May 12, 2003 - Navigation Technologies, a leading provider of digital maps for vehicle navigation, Internet/wireless applications and business solutions, today announced significant enhancements to its map-linked POI offering for North America. In October 2003, Navigation Technologies will make available the first of two datasets that utilize business listings information from D&B Sales and Marketing Solutions.

"Navigation Technologies initiated the development of these offerings to provide customers improved quality, quantity and flexibility of business listings. Launching these datasets signifies the availability of the most inclusive North American map-linked POI offering in the industry," said John MacLeod, Executive Vice President Global Marketing & Strategy for Navigation Technologies.

D&B provides the global business information, decisioning tools and expertise needed to help customers make confident business decisions. Over 90 percent of the Business Week Global 1000 rely on D&B as a trusted partner to Decide With Confidence. Navigation Technologies' new POI offerings leverage D&B's substantial data quality, the result of a rigorous multi-step process for collecting, validating and updating data. D&B's raw data acquisition process integrates information obtained from multiple sources, and D&B's on-going quality assurance process enhances the timeliness and accuracy of the data. Navigation Technologies and D&B continue to invest in their databases, further confirming their commitment to delivering and maintaining high data standards.

Navigation Technologies will begin shipping the first of its new NAVTECH POI datasets to its North American customers in October. The new dataset will offer approximately 1.8 million POIs in 46 categories. Transition to this new product will be seamless for current Standard+ customers. The cost of this new dataset is included in the base license fees for the use of NAVTECH map data.

Propelled by D&B's North American business information, Navigation Technologies will also offer a greatly expanded POI dataset. This expanded dataset offers over 13 million POIs in more than 1000 categories and is available separately. Navigation Technologies'customers will also benefit from the dataset's enhanced flexibility. Customers have the option to select categories they deem relevant and to develop customized POI category groupings to meet their specific needs. For example, a customer can create specific lifestyle categories of POIs such as family entertainment or outdoor activities. This expanded POI dataset will be available commercially in the first quarter of 2004. Both datasets are available to Navigation Technologies' customers in all industries.

"Our customers in the automotive, Internet and wireless industries have varying needs, requirements and budgetary considerations. We are pleased to be able to meet our customers' extensive and varied POI content requirements and to do so at a very attractive price," said John MacLeod.

By offering D&B data via its POI offerings, Navigation Technologies is better able to meet customers' need for business information - faster, easier and more accurately than ever before
 
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