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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As I see more and more of this kind of stuff I am loosing faith in Honda. I have owned soo many and never hesitate to recommend them as a go to brand. I no longer do that. I have a 79 GL1000 that is better built that my 2011 Pilot and my 2011 is better than the 2021 I am sure. They are going down hill so fast. I will find good used rigs until the electrics become affordable.

 

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Half a century ago, my Dad had a SAAB with a tiny engine that could barely defrost the windows and keep the car warm in winter.
The car had a set of shutters that could be closed in front of the radiator air intake and SAAB sold an accessory electric windshield defroster that stuck to the windshield with suction cups and plugged into the cigarette lighter socket.
We kept a couple of blankets in the car for passengers.
We wondered how anyone managed to use the cars through a Scandinavian winter.

If you're done with Hondas, then do as Scotty says and only buy a Toyota or Lexus.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Half a century ago, my Dad had a SAAB with a tiny engine that could barely defrost the windows and keep the car warm in winter.
The car had a set of shutters that could be closed in front of the radiator air intake and SAAB sold an accessory electric windshield defroster that stuck to the windshield with suction cups and plugged into the cigarette lighter socket.
We kept a couple of blankets in the car for passengers.
We wondered how anyone managed to use the cars through a Scandinavian winter.

If you're done with Hondas, then do as Scotty says and only buy a Toyota or Lexus.
I'm done with New Hondas I'll still own my old ones. Hell I just restored a 1975 CB125S it needed a good cleaning after 18 years and a few upgrades and my son will be riding it soon. And Toyota and Lexus are going south the same way, just not as fast as Honda seams to have. I'll buy a Toyota up to about 2018 then I don't think the ones after are going to be as good. I got a 2008 Yaris with 240K on it and counting that will be driven until the rust takes it, then I'll look for a 2012 deal and do it again. That car has been built the same for 20+ years. They runied in when the just rebadged a Mazda 2.
 

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I'm done with New Hondas I'll still own my old ones. Hell I just restored a 1975 CB125S it needed a good cleaning after 18 years and a few upgrades and my son will be riding it soon. And Toyota and Lexus are going south the same way, just not as fast as Honda seams to have. I'll buy a Toyota up to about 2018 then I don't think the ones after are going to be as good. I got a 2008 Yaris with 240K on it and counting that will be driven until the rust takes it, then I'll look for a 2012 deal and do it again. That car has been built the same for 20+ years. They runied in when the just rebadged a Mazda 2.
When my 2003 Pilot finally needs to be replaced, I'm considering leasing a new vehicle for only the length of the warranty period.
That would open up many more choices, with less concern about long-term reliability.

The only new vehicle remaining with a stellar reliability record seems to be the Prius.
One of my neighbors has two of them and wouldn't buy anything else.
I'm not sure I want to go in that direction, but now that AWD is an option it's not entirely out of the question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
When my 2003 Pilot finally needs to be replaced, I'm considering leasing a new vehicle for only the length of the warranty period.
That would open up many more choices, with less concern about long-term reliability.

The only new vehicle remaining with a stellar reliability record seems to be the Prius.
One of my neighbors has two of them and wouldn't buy anything else.
I'm not sure I want to go in that direction, but now that AWD is an option it's not entirely out of the question.
I hear you, sadly I cannot lease as we put 24-30K Miles a year 40-50K KM's on a vehicle. Leases come standard here with 20K KM allowance and if you put the real mileage it costs more than to buy outright with the extra mileage charges. So I'll look at a low mileage 2015 Pilot when the 11 dies or really hope the full electrics will be sorted. I plan on getting 4 years more out of the Pilot.
 

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Just like I see an older couple that has been married for 60 years, driving around town in their old Mercury Marque, my plan is to do the same with my Honda Crosstour.
147101

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I hear you, sadly I cannot lease as we put 24-30K Miles a year 40-50K KM's on a vehicle. Leases come standard here with 20K KM allowance and if you put the real mileage it costs more than to buy outright with the extra mileage charges. So I'll look at a low mileage 2015 Pilot when the 11 dies or really hope the full electrics will be sorted. I plan on getting 4 years more out of the Pilot.
Were my annual mileage that great and I needed an SUV in the Pilot's size class, I'd be looking at a Highlander Hybrid if for no other reason than the fuel cost savings

I don't see fully electric vehicles being a viable option any time soon.
Although there's a now a Tesla supercharger nearby, the charging options (other than at home) for other electric vehicles still seem mostly limited to either new car dealer sites or town facilities garages.
Other public charging sites are few and far between and I'd hate to need one and find out that it's occupied, out of service or even blocked.
If you travel away from major cities or highways, then there's nothing.
Unless there's a major breakthrough in developing the charging infrastructure, the only way I'd ever consider going electric would be with a plug-in hybrid that has an ICE as a back-up.
 

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While I can understand the frustration keep in mimd that the vehicles in the article that are having the issues are the 1.5 turbo equipped vehicles, not the 3.5 J engines in the Pilot, Passport and Ridgeline. I look at the 1.5 turbo issue as the 787 Dreamliner of the Honda line. I have no concerns about flying on a 737.

Just so you understand, this isn't a Honda rah rah speech. Every manufacturer experiences having issues with some of their vehicles from time to time. It's not just a Honda thing its an industry wide thing.
 

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Oh man this kind of thread makes me laugh a little. Yeah things probably aren't built the same as they were 40+ years ago. People want cheap. People want efficient. People want tons of tech and features. The government has so many restrictions and requirements regarding efficiency.

Unfortunately those combinations don't always work out. I also think that allowing cars to be financed or leased has lead to a reduction in quality. I am not defending Honda, but I think every manufacturer has problems.

Look at how popular the Toyota 4Runner is. They have used the same V6 engine since 2003 with minor changes. There hasn't been a major redesign since 2009. No major problems, amazing resale value and extremely versatile. Some people complain that it's outdated, isn't particularly fuel efficient and doesn't have some of the new tech that other cars have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
While I can understand the frustration keep in mimd that the vehicles in the article that are having the issues are the 1.5 turbo equipped vehicles, not the 3.5 J engines in the Pilot, Passport and Ridgeline. I look at the 1.5 turbo issue as the 787 Dreamliner of the Honda line. I have no concerns about flying on a 737.

Just so you understand, this isn't a Honda rah rah speech. Every manufacturer experiences having issues with some of their vehicles from time to time. It's not just a Honda thing its an industry wide thing.
Oh I know, It's more than that article getting me sad about Honda. I wouldn't touch the 1.5 turbo with a 10 foot pole but have no issue with the 2.0L civic, just not in the market for one. I love my Pilot, except there are things done in it that are not kosher. My un-service-able U-Joint drive shaft. That is a design that is "get through the warranty Period" Honda used to not do that, but they are more and more. Nissan, Toyota, Ford, GM, etc. all do it now as well. Make the owner buy a whole sub-component instead of a $30 part. All car companies are doing this to make things cheaper for them, SKU reductions, faster change times etc. but it loads the costs on the end owner. In 1979 Honda put a Main fuse in my bike that you pulled apart and replaced just the fusable link strip. It ended up that you never had to do it and they eventually failed by corrosion, not blowing out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh man this kind of thread makes me laugh a little. Yeah things probably aren't built the same as they were 40+ years ago. People want cheap. People want efficient. People want tons of tech and features. The government has so many restrictions and requirements regarding efficiency.

Unfortunately those combinations don't always work out. I also think that allowing cars to be financed or leased has lead to a reduction in quality. I am not defending Honda, but I think every manufacturer has problems.

Look at how popular the Toyota 4Runner is. They have used the same V6 engine since 2003 with minor changes. There hasn't been a major redesign since 2009. No major problems, amazing resale value and extremely versatile. Some people complain that it's outdated, isn't particularly fuel efficient and doesn't have some of the new tech that other cars have.
I totally agree with the 4-Runner, except I can't afford one. Even a good used is crazy expensive. By the time I can afford it, It's done. My Yaris is the same though. People say it's out dated tech and low on features right up to the last redesign. But you know what. that car is a tank and I will own another when I finally kill mine, but it will not be a 2020 or newer as they just re-badged a Mazda 2 which are junk. I agree to that the Bean counters and EPA are making it damn hard for companies to keep producing reliable long lasting cars. Hell Hyundai have had so many recalls for fires and engines exploding you can't pay me to own one of those. But give the electric Ioniqs a couple years to iron out and I may be a buyer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Were my annual mileage that great and I needed an SUV in the Pilot's size class, I'd be looking at a Highlander Hybrid if for no other reason than the fuel cost savings

I don't see fully electric vehicles being a viable option any time soon.
Although there's a now a Tesla supercharger nearby, the charging options (other than at home) for other electric vehicles still seem mostly limited to either new car dealer sites or town facilities garages.
Other public charging sites are few and far between and I'd hate to need one and find out that it's occupied, out of service or even blocked.
If you travel away from major cities or highways, then there's nothing.
Unless there's a major breakthrough in developing the charging infrastructure, the only way I'd ever consider going electric would be with a plug-in hybrid that has an ICE as a back-up.
Yeah the only thing I don't like is the complexity in the Hybrids and the cost of repairs when I mile them up. As for charging, Where I live we have the best per capita charging infrastructure In Canada and we're #2 after California in the US so electrics are looking good here soon.
 

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I totally agree with the 4-Runner, except I can't afford one. Even a good used is crazy expensive. By the time I can afford it, It's done. My Yaris is the same though. People say it's out dated tech and low on features right up to the last redesign. But you know what. that car is a tank and I will own another when I finally kill mine, but it will not be a 2020 or newer as they just re-badged a Mazda 2 which are junk. I agree to that the Bean counters and EPA are making it damn hard for companies to keep producing reliable long lasting cars. Hell Hyundai have had so many recalls for fires and engines exploding you can't pay me to own one of those. But give the electric Ioniqs a couple years to iron out and I may be a buyer.
I think buying a car, things will break. Some things won't work as well as you'd like. That's why I try to have a good relationship with an independent mechanic so if/when something does break and I don't want to fix it, I know I'm not being ripped off.

I know people who have Dodge, Chevy, Ford and Nissans that have never had a single problem but these brands are often plagued with issues. It's hard to know who to listen to.
 

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I don't see fully electric vehicles being a viable option any time soon.
Although there's a now a Tesla supercharger nearby, the charging options (other than at home) for other electric vehicles still seem mostly limited to either new car dealer sites or town facilities garages.
Other public charging sites are few and far between and I'd hate to need one and find out that it's occupied, out of service or even blocked.
If you travel away from major cities or highways, then there's nothing.
Unless there's a major breakthrough in developing the charging infrastructure, the only way I'd ever consider going electric would be with a plug-in hybrid that has an ICE as a back-up.
Tensions and frustrations waiting in line for access to the sole supercharger in the area could be worse than waiting to use an occupied pay phone back in the day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I think buying a car, things will break. Some things won't work as well as you'd like. That's why I try to have a good relationship with an independent mechanic so if/when something does break and I don't want to fix it, I know I'm not being ripped off.

I know people who have Dodge, Chevy, Ford and Nissans that have never had a single problem but these brands are often plagued with issues. It's hard to know who to listen to.
Yep, I have a trusted independent Mechanic for the things I can't do. And I have been on the receiving end of the GM quality being terrible so not going there, Nissan just as bad. I've had the least issues with Honda and Toyota and will stick to them but Honda is dropping down the list sadly. I don't like all the bells and whistles the newest cars(make aside) are coming with. I see huge repair bills in the future of most of them if you live in a salt brine roads part of the world and put as many miles on as my wife and I do. All the sensors and electronics are not a good thing. That is also one part of the electric cars I worry about. What is salt going to do to them. The only thing I hope is they can seal up the cars better not having to have the engine bays etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Tensions and frustrations waiting in line for access to the sole supercharger in the area could be worse than waiting to use an occupied pay phone back in the day.
This could be true if the curve gets out of whack, right now though the local big stop has 20 Tesla and 10 other super chargers and they are only half full when you go by. And as charge times decrease the chargers will be like gas pumps. Pull up. connect, take a pee, grab a snack, get back in and go.
 

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On one hand I agree with you... I do believe the golden age for the balance of technology and reliability was mid 90's-2010. Infotainment, gimmicky features and fuel economy became priorities and combined with companies working to squeeze every penny out of profit it drove the engineering costs down. Everyone blames the engineers, I blame the executives and accountants running these companies.

That being said, I would not hesitate to buy a new car from almost any brand if it's the one we like the most. I am fairly adept at working on cars and I don't expect them to be trouble free for 100,000 miles, so I am pleasantly surprised if it happens. My wife values the safety of new cars (like curtain airbags and better designed impact structures, we do not like most active features like lane centering or auto braking) and some of the technology that makes it more comfortable, easier and safer to transport our children.

People can wax poetic about 40 year old cars all they want, cars from the 80's and before (especially carbureted) required constant adjustments and work. But it was almost always quick and easy to do with cheap parts. People nowadays can't even be bothered to do such things.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
On one hand I agree with you... I do believe the golden age for the balance of technology and reliability was mid 90's-2010. Infotainment, gimmicky features and fuel economy became priorities and combined with companies working to squeeze every penny out of profit it drove the engineering costs down. Everyone blames the engineers, I blame the executives and accountants running these companies.

That being said, I would not hesitate to buy a new car from almost any brand if it's the one we like the most. I am fairly adept at working on cars and I don't expect them to be trouble free for 100,000 miles, so I am pleasantly surprised if it happens. My wife values the safety of new cars (like curtain airbags and better designed impact structures, we do not like most active features like lane centering or auto braking) and some of the technology that makes it more comfortable, easier and safer to transport our children.

People can wax poetic about 40 year old cars all they want, cars from the 80's and before (especially carbureted) required constant adjustments and work. But it was almost always quick and easy to do with cheap parts. People nowadays can't even be bothered to do such things.
This is pretty much my feelings, that auto braking when it malfunctions and stops you from 70 mph to 0 for not reason is down right dangerous. Hyundai again is having those issues. law suites are piling up on it. Give me a rust free low mileage Honda/Toyota from 90's too 2010's and I'll be happy to own it. Sadly they are getting pretty rare LOL.
 
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