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Long cranking to start

158K views 118 replies 41 participants last post by  plplplpl 
#1 ·
I have a 2003 Honda Pilot EX with about 116,000 miles on it. Since purchasing the vehicle at 100k miles, I've replaced the timing belt and spark plugs along with other normal maintenace items such as oil changes, new brakes, brake fluid change, transmission fluid change, differential fluid change, etc.

I've been having a problem starting the vehicle and it's been going on for about a year now. Sometimes I put the key in the ignition and crank it and the vehicle immediately starts. But most times, I crank the ignition the normal amount and release and it does not start. So I turn the key and continue to crank while listening closely to hear it turn over. It oftentimes takes 5-10 seconds to turn over. And even when it does turn over, it seems to barely start.

I do not understand what is going on! I did not change brands of gasoline, I don't think I have any electrical problems, and there is NO check engine light on. I took it to the Honda dealer and (of course) he could not replicate the problem. He told me to keep driving it until the check engine light comes on. But do you know how embarassing it is to have to open the driver's side car door while trying to listen to your vehicle crank & crank & crank then barely start? It sucks!

I've been reading forums and it appears that this is a common problem with Pilots. Here is is a list of items that I've looked into which may be causing the problem:

1) bad gasoline - no change. I use BP 87 octane.
2) bad fuel pump
3) bad fuel pump relay - I found the relay and all solder joints look good
4) bad spark plugs - replaced recently with OEM NGK plugs
5) bad coils

Have any of you experienced the problem I've described? What did you find was the problem?

Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
Check battery, cables and grounds.

If not that probably a marginal fuel pump not holding pressure and allowing fuel to drain back to the tank.

Leaky injectors can (but usually don't) cause this issues also.
 
#3 ·
Mines been doing this since I bought it too, it seems to get worse the cooler it is outside. It's completely random too, sometimes it happens other times it doesn't. I can say it always starts though.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I'm having this excess cranking issue now as well. Brought it in, they charged a fortune to replace the fuel pump. One week later it's as if they did nothing....Oh yeah, my gas mileage has taken a dive since they touched it....was getting 19.5-20 consistently over a long time. Now it's 15-17 mpg.

My issue is that is starts fine when cold, like first thing in the AM. But when it has been running and warm, then it's hard to restart. Yes it cranks excessively but will always get around to starting and once I touch the gas, all is fine. When cranking excessively I get a gas smell in through the ventilation, so it sure doesn't seem to be a fuel issue.

At 185K miles, I'm starting to get that crap from the service guys about "time to buy a new car".

Going in again and informed the service mgr than I'm #%$#&*$ed off....Thousand bucks for fuel pump and install and still have the same damn problem.

Well, they stung me for fuel injectors and valve timing to the tune of another 800.....boy am I ticked off. It starts...it always eventually starts, but it cranks for 6 to 8 seconds when it's warm. Cold in the AM? Starts like it used to always start.

I doubt that I'll be buying another Honda after this....a real shame, as I've owned one non-stop since 1975. Last two purchases were Toyotas.
 
#4 ·
Does it start any more readily if you leave the key in the 'ON' or 'II' position for a few seconds (to let the fuel pump run) before trying to start the car?

Do you have any other keys on the same ring as the one for the Pilot?
If so, remove them and see if there's an improvement.
Extra keys can sometimes interfere with the operation of the ignition immobilizer.
 
#5 ·
As for me, I have tried leaving the key in the II position for a few seconds and that didn't work, and I keep all of my house keys and things on a separate key chain.
 
#6 ·
Mine fires right up with 75,000 mi... original plugs. What you can do is test your spark ... that will eliminate the ignition theory.
I would change the fuel filter to start , if that does not help then I would find a fuel pump at the wrecker and change it out. While you are at it clean your throttle body but I don't think it is the main problem (although if really dirty).

The nature of how it sometimes fires right up , is there a pattern to that?
 
#7 ·
There's no pattern to it at all, always random. I can tell you mine has nothing to do with spark plugs, because they are brand new. It's a problem that many people have with their 2003 Pilots, there are multiple threads with many pages of people complaining about it, but to my knowledge no solution was ever found.
 
#8 ·
Battery cannot be the problem - I keep it well charged and use a Battery Tender when not driving it for several days.

Before cranking it, I wait 4-5 seconds to allow the fuel pump to pressurize the system. I cannot hear the fuel pump running amid the other beeps and clicks when inserting the key and turning to position 2.

What else is there to check?
 
#9 ·
Are you touching the gas peddle at all?

Time the cranking. Most people feel lie 2 or 3 seconds are "forever".

IIRC up to 5 seconds is acceptable.

We just get spoiled by the 1/4 second normal start.
 
#10 ·
I don't touch the pedal at all while cranking. Usually, you start the car automatically (and don't think about it). But with this problem, I'm forced to listen to the engine and time it so that I release the key when the engine starts. Sometimes the start is very weak.

Maybe I'm just going to have to put thousands of dollars into it until I find the problem??? New fuel pump, fuel filter, battery, etc.
 
#11 ·
As long at it starts, don't worry about it.

If you want to put a few thousand into your Pilot, put it in a savings account for the next one (or the trans replacement)
 
#16 ·
Here is the latest scoop....they claim that I have MAP sensor reading that indicates loss of fuel pressure.

Recommended course: new fuel injectors and an expensive valve adjustment. (Valves are not closing properly)

Any reaction to this?
 
#17 ·
Injectors makles soem sense, but valve adjustmnet does not.
(Maybe someone mentioned teh injectors (valves) not closing and someone misunderstood?)
 
#20 ·
Demartin, thank you for substantiating my claims of a long cranking time with my Honda Pilot. I was beginning to think I was going crazy or something.

I took my vehicle to the shop on Monday for a state inspection and (thankfully) my repair facility was able to replicate the long cranking time to start. They suggested that I have a complete throttle body cleansing along with mixing an additive in my fuel tank. I am going back to the shop on Thursday to have the repairs done. Hopefully this will fix the problem.
 
#21 ·
Well, I got my Pilot worked on yesterday. The service center did a cleaning of the fuel injection system and the mechanic said it was pretty dirty. According to the bill, the cleaning includes: "connect injector cleaning system to vehicle fuel system. Check system operating pressure and fuel delivery. Perform injector cleaning procedure." While doing other maintenance on the vehicle, the mechanic also found that my coolant temperature sensor was bad.

Anyway, after all this work has been done and I am a bit lighter in the wallet it seems that the problem still exists! Even starting it up at the service center seemed to take just as long to crank as usual.

Any suggestions on what to do next?
 
#22 ·
I hate to tell those of you who have spent $$$ trying to figure this issue out but I have a brand new 2012 EXL and am having the same problem. Random times when it simply won't start and almost starts for about 5 to 7 seconds until it eventually starts. I have Googled the issue as well as YouTubed it and even brand new Pilot's (like mine) are having this issue. I'll be talking with my dealer this week and report back.
 
#23 ·
The saga continues . . .

I took my vehicle to another Honda dealer for a recall notice. While there, I explained the long cranking problems I've been experiencing. The service technician asked if I replaced the original spark plugs with spark plugs purchased at a Honda dealer and I told him "No". I did, however, buy the OEM specified brand of spark plugs which are NGK as specified in the owner's manual. He told me that NGK plugs that you buy at an auto parts store are not the same as Honda NGK spark plugs purchased at 3 times the cost at a Honda dealer.

I was very suspicious about this statement so I called NGK directly and they said that it is not true. An NGK spark plug that you buy at an auto parts store is EXACTLY the same as one purchased at a Honda dealership - assuming the spark plug part number is the same.

I guess it's back to the drawing board!
 
#25 · (Edited)
Either fuel or spark is missing and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which. I've heard of some vehicles that have marginal crank sensor signals at low RPM's, which many ECU's use to allow plug coils to fire and also injectors to work. EDIT: in other words, the ECU probably wont deliver fuel and maybe not spark without sensing the engine is turning.

I assume they have measured rail pressure during crank?
 
#26 ·
What do you guys think about a weak coil?

Again, the car starts pretty well when cold. When the engine is warm is when I have the long cranking problems.

Do any of you know how to test the coils and/or the specifications for the coils? I'd hate to spend upwards of $200 on six new coils.
 
#27 ·
Seems like you have been having this problem for sometime and tried various fixes. Has the vehicle ever not started? I think bad coil(s) would set off some DTC's, which you don't seem to have. As long as the vehicle starts and while it's annoying, how about just leave it alone. I had an old Chevy truck with similar symptoms - started right up with a cold engine, but would take a several seconds to start when the engine got warm. After three different shops without a fix, I just ignored the symptoms and drove the truck for several more years. The engine had never failed to start.
 
#28 ·
Here are a few things you can do to trouble shoot the hard starting when the engine is warm:

First is simple, when the engine is warm, press the accelerator pedal to the floor, hold it there and start the engine. Release the pedal IMMEDIATELY when the engine starts. Holding the pedal to the floor is a "Clear Flood" function. It tells the ECU to not fire the fuel injectors. A leaking fuel injector will drip fuel into the intake manifold while the engine is off. When you try to start it in the normal manner, the fuel mixture is too rich and will not ignite until enough fresh air is brought in to dilute the fuel mixture.

If the engine starts very easily while doing this, you most likely have a leaking fuel injector. A fuel injection cleaning, which you had done, does not always fix this. New injectors, or rebuilding the old ones will solve this.

If low fuel pressure from a worn fuel pump is the problem, try this:
Turn the key from off to On, wait 5 seconds, turn the key off then back on, wait 5 seconds, again turn the key off then on, wait 5 seconds then start the car. This sequence of turning the key on 3 times will run the fuel pump 3 separate times and may increase the fuel pressure in the line.

If you want to go more in depth, the next tool will be a scanner with "Live Data" capabilities. Amazon.com has the Equus Innova 3160 for about $220.
You can hook it up when the engine is cold, start it up, and watch the coolant temperature as the car warms up. Look for any erratic temperature drops during the warm-up. You already had the coolant temp sensor replaced, but this will also help you diagnose problems with the harness itself. You can also see engine rpm while cranking, to see if the Crank sensor is operating properly

An even more involved approach it to hook up an in-line fuel pressure gauge. You can see the actual pressure when the pump is primed, while the engine is running, and most importantly you can watch the pressure drop when the engine is shut off. If it drops too fast, that could indicate a leaking injector. low pressure when the engine is running indicates a weak pump or bad pressure regulator. On a 2 line system with low pressure, block off the fuel return line to see if the pressure rises, if it does, you have a bad fuel pressure regulator.

These are all tests that any competent professional mechanic would do when presented with a hard start condition.

We all know that just because a guy works at a dealership doesnt automatically mean he's a great troubleshooter. Part swapper.....yes. Troubleshooter.....Maybe.

Sorry for the long winded post, hope this helps
 
#51 ·
They did it all in my case....fuel pump, fuel injectors, spark plugs, checked the individual coils(no problems there) then told me a needed an expensive valve adjustment. Total work around 1800. Still have the problem.

I think I've read something recently about a fuel pressure regulator. I would have thought that would be the FIRST thing they'd replace. I do not believe mine has been replaced and I still have the problem.

It is at least a testimony to the reliability of my starter motor and battery!!

my cranking can range from instant start to 5 or more seconds....typical more like 4.

add this to the repeatedly failing fan motor and the peeling paint (like a friggin' GM car for crying out loud) and I suspect another car company will be getting my future business. I've gotten 2 toyotas since the Pilot and they have been flawless. The newest car is a civic and it's doing OK.

Does anyone have any idea what it costs to replace a fuel pressure regulator??
 
#29 · (Edited)
Doesn't point to *a* weak coil or even two weak coils. The good coils would fire and the engine would catch, albeit rough running. A leaking injector would cause one cylinder to be be flooded, but not the rest. Even if the leaking injector managed to over enrich the other cylinders due to hot-soak, it would run rough with black exhaust after it caught.

Catching it in the act with a scan tool logging is the best way to eliminate what isn't the issue and narrowing it down. They also might see something odd/unstable or low output from crank or cam sensors if they scope them at running temp.

I'd inspect the crank and cam positions sensors to see if they are damaged, or out of position. It's free if you do it. If you're into shotgun sensor replacements--sometimes cheaper than a couple hours of diagnostic charges from the shop-- replace the crank position sensor. After that, replace camshaft position sensors (come as a pair I think). RockAuto carries all of them.

EDIT: occasionally it's something simple like a bad harness connection at the sensor. Disconnect and replug the sensor a few times to abrade light oxidation on the connector pins.
 
#30 ·
Actually, 1 leaking injector can cause all cylinders to be overly rich.

The injectors are in the intake manifold near the intake valve. If one leaks after shutting the engine down, the fuel will vaporize in the manifold and cause the entire intake manifold to contain this rich mixture. When you try to start the engine, the initial air drawn into all cylinders will contain this rich fuel vapor. At the same time, each individual injector is firing at the open intake valve, and the result is a mixture too rich to burn, until fresh air is drawn in, which takes a few seconds.

You wont see any black smoke, there isnt enough fuel to do this, but just enough to give you a hard time starting the engine.
 
#31 ·
2010... The symptoms he's described don't seem to be from a leaky injector, unless he's leaving out details. A leaking injector (at least one leaking mildly) takes time to flood the engine and it would appear the hard start can happen soon after shutdown, like when he had it inspected. If he had a severely leaking injector, OBDII would catch it, and the engine would run very poorly at idle. He complains of neither.

Maybe rdrennard can elaborate when the hard start occurs (hot, cold, after sitting 1 minute, 5 hrs, overnight...).
 
#32 ·
This thread has 2 different people with hard start issues. The OP has the problem all the time while "demartin" has a problem restarting when hot.

I posted information on how to diagnose the problem. If you cannot do these yourself, you should be asking your mechanic if he performed these tests, as well as what the results are.

Belundy, I agree that the OP probably doesnt have a leaky injector as he has difficulty starting most times, not specifically when the engine is warm.

In "demartins" case, a leaking fuel injector (s) , although rare, can cause a hard restart, but there are many other items that need to be diagnosed as I described in my post.

Fuel pressure reading are necessary when diagnosing hard starts.
 
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