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In all likelihood we’ll go German for our next SUV and trade one set of frustrations for another.
I own an older Bimmer X3 that was an inexpensive impulsive purchase with 12k miles. Always wanted a Bimmer as long as the lease allows me to walk (run) away in 3-4 yr. After owning Honda/Toyota I’m still trying to figure out the many quirks in Germans designs. Known expensive parts and service that can be an incentive to diy whenever possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I hear you. Guess I didn't consider it a rant as much as Honda playing games with their warranty extension and warning others in the same place to not make the same mistake. I guess I should just say that since the car is 9 years old that Honda is ok not honoring their warranty and I should just accept whatever they want to do? Seems shady. Driving 20 miles to the nearest Honda dealer is not ideal and the care has been maintained exactly as it should. Not sure if you've driven a car that's missing but driving it 20 miles to the nearest Honda dealer while limping along and sputtering didn't seem like a great option with my kids in the car. I just found it odd that the dealer wanted to do the job but Honda corporate wouldn't cover unless the code came through at their shop. Just seems arbitrary to me. And I know, they got my $$ already so they don't really care. Just hate to switch brands after always having Honda's for over 20 years but that's what it seems like that's what needs to be done. I can't drive a brand that doesn't honor their own warranty, even if it was an extension.
 

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I had the plug foul and the car wasn't driveable so limped it to a local mechanic that diagnosed with the plug fouling code and replaced the plug. And if any of you have plugs foul (dashboard warnings light up all over and car won't run) have the car towed to honda if you're within 10 years of purchase.
Driving 20 miles to the nearest Honda dealer is not ideal and the care has been maintained exactly as it should. Not sure if you've driven a car that's missing but driving it 20 miles to the nearest Honda dealer while limping along and sputtering didn't seem like a great option with my kids in the car.
Was there no prior warning that the engine was running less than optimally?
Did the spark plugs suddenly foul spontaneously to the point of making the vehicle undriveable?
 

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I hear you. Guess I didn't consider it a rant as much as Honda playing games with their warranty extension and warning others in the same place to not make the same mistake. I guess I should just say that since the car is 9 years old that Honda is ok not honoring their warranty and I should just accept whatever they want to do? Seems shady. Driving 20 miles to the nearest Honda dealer is not ideal and the care has been maintained exactly as it should. Not sure if you've driven a car that's missing but driving it 20 miles to the nearest Honda dealer while limping along and sputtering didn't seem like a great option with my kids in the car. I just found it odd that the dealer wanted to do the job but Honda corporate wouldn't cover unless the code came through at their shop. Just seems arbitrary to me. And I know, they got my $$ already so they don't really care. Just hate to switch brands after always having Honda's for over 20 years but that's what it seems like that's what needs to be done. I can't drive a brand that doesn't honor their own warranty, even if it was an extension.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a minute. I won't try and make it seem like it's your fault like some other people are trying to do.

All auto manufacturers have warranty policies. If something breaks and falls under a warranty, you likely pay for a diagnostic. If they find it to be an error on their part, they will fix it. So keep in mind, you likely have some skin in the game. I know oil consumption tests for Accords and other Hondas were done over a few oil changes, all paid for at the owner's expense.
This work MUST be done at a dealership. Not an independent mechanic. So the fact that the spark plugs are in the trash likely means you're SOL. I would hope Honda would at least assist in some of the repair price (if there is any) as a goodwill gesture. Just keep in mind, there is a process to get things covered under warranty and you didn't follow that process. That's why if I am experiencing a problem with one of my cars, I'll try and look it up on the internet just to ensure it isn't some warranty issue. If it isn't, I'll go to my independent mechanic, but if there's a possibility of it being covered by Honda, I'll go to the dealer.

I'm not quite sure what's wrong with your Pilot other than the spark plugs getting fouled up. You may be able to live with the oil consumption. Disable the VCM to prevent any further damage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Was there no prior warning that the engine was running less than optimally?
Did the spark plugs suddenly foul spontaneously to the point of making the vehicle undriveable?

Went from perfectly fine to undrivable on an instant. Dashboard lights like a Christmas tree. No advance warning. I'll just carry plugs and a wrench on me from now on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a minute. I won't try and make it seem like it's your fault like some other people are trying to do.

All auto manufacturers have warranty policies. If something breaks and falls under a warranty, you likely pay for a diagnostic. If they find it to be an error on their part, they will fix it. So keep in mind, you likely have some skin in the game. I know oil consumption tests for Accords and other Hondas were done over a few oil changes, all paid for at the owner's expense.
This work MUST be done at a dealership. Not an independent mechanic. So the fact that the spark plugs are in the trash likely means you're SOL. I would hope Honda would at least assist in some of the repair price (if there is any) as a goodwill gesture. Just keep in mind, there is a process to get things covered under warranty and you didn't follow that process. That's why if I am experiencing a problem with one of my cars, I'll try and look it up on the internet just to ensure it isn't some warranty issue. If it isn't, I'll go to my independent mechanic, but if there's a possibility of it being covered by Honda, I'll go to the dealer.

I'm not quite sure what's wrong with your Pilot other than the spark plugs getting fouled up. You may be able to live with the oil consumption. Disable the VCM to prevent any further damage.
I agree. And my independent mechanic should have known and sent me to the dealer. And I should have researched and went to the dealer. I screwed upI. can live with it but I'm getting rid of the car because I can't drive it knowing that it could become undrivable at any time, especially in the winter, even if I have the plugs. Time for a new brand.
 

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I agree. And my independent mechanic should have known and sent me to the dealer. And I should have researched and went to the dealer. I screwed upI. can live with it but I'm getting rid of the car because I can't drive it knowing that it could become undrivable at any time, especially in the winter, even if I have the plugs. Time for a new brand.
And that's what I don't understand. Spark plugs DO go bad. Especially on these Hondas. I'm assuming the car has at least 100k miles on it so it's pretty reasonable. Sounds like you just want a new car and you're using this to justify it...which is absolutely fine.
 

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Starting to agree with RAVL here this really does look like a BS rant ... buy a 4runner and be done with it. :)
 
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I'd swear off Honda in an instant if I could find a 4Runner that hasn't been abused in my price range. I love my Pilot's but they aren't exactly heavy duty and seem to need a lot of babying. They are great, but I want something more rugged.
 

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People who I know that own European cars tell me they are really expensive to maintain, and repair. High Maintenance!!
I think that mostly comes from dealer repairs or "picking the wrong car" - plenty of cars to absolutely avoid on the German front. I've got an older E90 BMW that I've had for 10+ years and it's been great. In general the parts prices are actually reasonable. Honda parts in my experience <seem> to be more outrageous. If you can DIY (which not everyone can) then they can be pretty doable.

I own an older Bimmer X3 that was an inexpensive impulsive purchase with 12k miles. Always wanted a Bimmer as long as the lease allows me to walk (run) away in 3-4 yr. After owning Honda/Toyota I’m still trying to figure out the many quirks in Germans designs. Known expensive parts and service that can be an incentive to diy whenever possible.
They're for sure quirky. :) With that said, I can appreciate some of it. While everything requires an external torx or something new / different... most of it I can actually get to. Things like exhaust bolts placed where I can get an impact on them. It just all comes apart in "layers". At least that's been my experience. The OEM quality aftermarket parts are readily available and generally quite reasonable. In 10 years I've loved my 3 series. Ultimately it's important to remember "It's just car. It still sucks air and fuel in and makes noise and motion come out". I think a lot of people physic themselves out of DIY projects that they could easily do on german cars.
 
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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
And that's what I don't understand. Spark plugs DO go bad. Especially on these Hondas. I'm assuming the car has at least 100k miles on it so it's pretty reasonable. Sounds like you just want a new car and you're using this to justify it...which is absolutely fine.
Nah. Was hoping to get 200k out of it. Plugs replaced as scheduled at I belive 100k miles. Fouling started after 25k on new plugs.
 

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Nah. Was hoping to get 200k out of it. Plugs replaced as scheduled at I belive 100k miles. Fouling started after 25k on new plugs.
Wrong gen for that ..the gen1 will give you over 200k easily ... some of us are hitting close to if not over 300k
 

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I'd swear off Honda in an instant if I could find a 4Runner that hasn't been abused in my price range. I love my Pilot's but they aren't exactly heavy duty and seem to need a lot of babying. They are great, but I want something more rugged.
I'm holding back cause I need the 8 seater .. for the kids if the 4 Runner came in an 8 seater i'm gone off Honda
 
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The challenge is that it isn't "just the plug". "Just the plug" is a symptom of a failure in that cylinder. There's a broken ring or two, carbon in the ring lands that caused the rings to break, etc. The oil and the carbon buildup are related to VCM use and an oil choice. Once the rings don't seal, the cylinder gets an extra dose of oil on every cycle, more when VCM goes from active to inactive. You can replace the plug so you have combustion again. Use a low- or no-ash synthetic oil. Disable The VCM using one of the several options available. Those things will dramatically extend the life of the new plug in that cylinder, and will reduce the oil consumption some. But it only temporarily solves only the symptom, and not the underlying problem. It will slow or stop further damage in the other VCM cylinders.
 

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So there's a known warranty extension on the 2012 pilot that makes the spark plugs foul and burn oil. I had the plug foul and the car wasn't driveable so limped it to a local mechanic that diagnosed with the plug fouling code and replaced the plug. They also said I had burned a lot of oil. They didn't know of the warranty. Now Honda is saying they won't provide the service because it wasn't diagnosed by them. I'm going to call customer relations but if they won't do the repair I will never buy another Honda. I always thought Honda to be reliable and if not they'd honor their word. This is very disappointing. And if any of you have plugs foul (dashboard warnings light up all over and car won't run) have the car towed to honda if you're within 10 years of purchase. Do NOT have the car fixed. Seems ironic honda would encourage you to drive an unreliable car but I guess that's the new Honda. I will update if I get any word from customer relations!
I'm in the same boat! I'm waiting on Honda America to make a decision .. but they told me that the warranty extension was expired by 4 months, I have approximately 83 K on the car....and the dealer wants almost 5 grand to do the ring job...
 

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On a related note, earlier this year our 2012 Odyssey had a similar issue. I had changed the timing belt about a month before and one day out of nowhere, the "Check Engine" light pops on. I get it home and check the codes and it says that there was a misfire in cylinder 3. The van was still running well...so to be safe, I called ahead first and then took it to my dealer. They confirmed that the plugs were soaked and that it was the dreaded failure due to the VCM.

Two things in particular really sucked about this: 1) My Honda Care service contract had expired only 1 month earlier. and 2) I was SIX DAYS past the recall warranty period that Honda had put into place to address the issue for free. It was bad...but it could have been much worse. I have flawless maintenance records in the dealer system and although they could not cover the entire $4000 cost, they covered the biggest chunk of it and I only paid about $650. This, to me, is a perfect example of why I think it's worth doing all of your maintenance at a dealer if at all possible.

I got it fixed and everything was fine....until about two weeks ago when my wife was hit nearly head-on by another woman who screwed up and came into her lane on a highway near our home. They collided at about 55 mph. Outside of some burn marks on her arm from the airbag deployment, my wife was OK....but the Odyssey was not. The insurance company totaled it out and we just bought a 2020 Pilot Elite this past Saturday.
 

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I'm in the same boat! I'm waiting on Honda America to make a decision .. but they told me that the warranty extension was expired by 4 months, I have approximately 83 K on the car....and the dealer wants almost 5 grand to do the ring job...
Where have you done your servicing? Private shop or at a dealer? If it's at a dealer, they are much more inclined to help you out.
 

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The above is consistent with my experience as well with Honda. Not to say they will pay every penny for an out of warranty repair, but if the car is serviced by Honda and you don't just show up after 8 years looking for a freebie, the cost will be mitigated to the point where it is in line with a reasonable repair cost for a car at the given age and mileage.
 

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To be fair I’m not sure Toyota is what it once was either. All cylinder deactivation systems seem like ineffective garbage.
I agree with Brian, I don't think you will ever find a car that is still the same like 20 years ago. I owned a 2010 Toyota before and have issues with radio just turn on full volume and dealer won't replace it. I traded that car with a Honda, so far I've been lucky.
My experience with any car now, whether Toyota or Honda, as much as possible, these companies will look the other way once you drove your car off the lot.
I blame the government for mandating all these junk on the new cars making drivers more dumb, like Lane assist - so someone can text and drive. I experienced cars sideswipe me a couple of times and I now they have that triangle red light on their side mirror alerting them of blind spot.
 
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