ok, maybe it's because i also own a z28 camaro, but i've always been a little disappointed with the engine performance of the pilot. it almost feels like the engine is better suited to a smaller, lighter car. when i first heard that the 04 pilot had 255hp, that certainly sounded like a good number to me, but i'm sure it only makes that hp at a very high rpm, which doesn't really help if you're towing anything or even carrying several passengers on a trip. the pilot seems to have to constantly downshift on the highway when going up hills, etc. because there just isn't enough torgue down low in the rpm range. having said all of that, i think the engine runs beautifully and is very quiet.

does anybody else feel the way i do about the lack of low-end torque or is it just me?

I think my opinion of the Pilots torque has changed in the past 9 months of ownership.I was used to a 2500 Suburban with a 6.5 Turbo charged Diesel that was a real puller.. when I bought the Pilot I thought.. wow this vehicle is really smooth and plenty fast on the highway but no torque on the bottom end. I do notice it likes to downshift when its not loaded and I am going up and down hills but our last family trip really changed my mind. I had it packed and it ran up the I5 Grapevine like it was on rails... I think it likes a little more RPM's when it thinks its pulling or hauling something. I dont really tow anything so maybe not the best person to ask here, just a member that really likes Hondas VTEC motors and for as much as their transmissions get bashed, they are very smooth.

I also have to note that at the higher RPM's my Pilot was getting great gas mileage... something that my Suburban didnt get even downhill!

 

thanks for the reply!

i agree that it probably likes the higher rpm's, but wondering why you seemed to change your opinion of it on that recent trip you spoke of? seems like if you had it loaded down pretty good, it would have been downshifting left and right, trying to keep the rpm's up. did you have the transmisstion set to the normal overdrive or were you running in D3? i guess i'm just wondering what changed?

 

Compared to a V8 it certainly doesn't have as much low end torque. Driving my 4Runner and Pilot back to back always highlights that for me. Having said that I have no problem with the Pilot's engine and we all know where to find the torque in that engine when we need it

I should also mention that I have driven the Pilot down to Florida and back 2 times now, both times with 2 adults, 1 teenager, I child, a full 'trunk" and a roof box on top, and the Pilot goes up and down the mountains in W.Virginia and Virginia with minimal fuss and little downshifting. The engine pulled strongly and there was always lots of power in reserve.

 

ok, maybe it's because i also own a z28 camaro, but i've always been a little disappointed with the engine performance of the pilot. it almost feels like the engine is better suited to a smaller, lighter car. when i first heard that the 04 pilot had 255hp, that certainly sounded like a good number to me, but i'm sure it only makes that hp at a very high rpm, which doesn't really help if you're towing anything or even carrying several passengers on a trip. the pilot seems to have to constantly downshift on the highway when going up hills, etc. because there just isn't enough torgue down low in the rpm range. having said all of that, i think the engine runs beautifully and is very quiet.

does anybody else feel the way i do about the lack of low-end torque or is it just me?

Not me.

I love the way the engine and transmission are matched to the vehicle.

It makes the little bit of power needed for highway cruising effortlessly with little noise, and makes more power higher up in the RPMs when needed.

 

Typical Honda-RPMs=power

The Pilot is a typical Honda-Hondas make power by increasing RPMs,not by increasing Displacement.One the bright side,as you mentioned-the Pilot is pretty quiet at increased RPMs,and also pretty efficient.Honda has a corp philosophy that lower displacement and fewer cyl are the way to get mpg-need more power-just increase RPMS-don't have to carry all that extra V-8 weight or internal engine friction.The 4 Runner(V-8) and the Pilot make close to the same power-close to same weight and accel-but the Pilot gets much better mpg than the 4 Runner 4x4-despite the same weight. and the 4 Runner having a state of the art smallish V-8.Charlie

 

You don't need as much torque in a mini-van...errr....Pilot. Ooops did I say that out loud.........:2: .

 

You don't need as much torque in a mini-van...errr....Pilot. Ooops did I say that out loud.........:2: .

Dang you did didn't you....

I think the engine just loves being revved, and is perhaps the smoothest I've ever had. It has no qualms about change downs on the interstates to maintain cruising speed.

 

The difference in mileage between the Pilot and the 4Runner V8 in city driving is small enough that driving habits could negate it. In the city the Pilot is rated for 20.55 MPG ( Imperial gallon ) and the 4Runner at 19 MPG ( Imperial gallon ). Out on the highway the difference is greater 29.55 MPG for the Pilot vs. 25 MPG for the 4Runner V8.

I've never sat down to calculate my actual mileage for both ( I should ) but I have noticed that I'm not pumping significantly more gas into the 4Runner. Perhaps I should speak to the wife as she may be leadfooting it in the Pilot.

 

thanks for the reply!

i agree that it probably likes the higher rpm's, but wondering why you seemed to change your opinion of it on that recent trip you spoke of? seems like if you had it loaded down pretty good, it would have been downshifting left and right, trying to keep the rpm's up. did you have the transmisstion set to the normal overdrive or were you running in D3? i guess i'm just wondering what changed?

When it was loaded down it stayed right in a single gear and I was doing 80+ straight up the hill. I have noticed when its not loaded down and go up the same hill it gear hunts. I thought torque was an issue (compared to the big rig turbo diesel) but when it loaded down it has no problems at all climbing (just dont know about towning)

 

let me first comment on the gas mileage points that have been made on this thread. i'm not getting even close to those kind of numbers. i am lucky to get 15 in the city and 18 on the highway....never tow anything and have 27K on my 2004.

back to the torque talk....the one thing i'm still very confused about is how a loaded down pilot can seem to not have to gear hunt and pretty much remain in the same gear on a given road, yet an empty pilot gear hunts. the only explanation i can think of is that when it's loaded down, it must not be dropping into the lowest gear, thus, not having to downshift as much

??

 

let me first comment on the gas mileage points that have been made on this thread. i'm not getting even close to those kind of numbers. i am lucky to get 15 in the city and 18 on the highway....never tow anything and have 27K on my 2004.

If you are refering to Scoobs numbers, he is speaking canadian, 1 imperial gal = 1.2 us gal.

 

ok, maybe it's because i also own a z28 camaro...............

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The Pilot is not a sports car. However, as a SUV it has one one of the more responsive engines (particularly at the top-end) and can move its considerable bulk quite effectively. Unless you compare like with like you're gonna get strange results.

 

thanks for the clarification jl_ss.....didn't even catch that there was some conversion to be done on those mpg numbers

johnabrown.....i agree with your comment and i agree that the pilot does move its weight around well once the rpm's get up a little higher.

 

thanks for the clarification jl_ss.....didn't even catch that there was some conversion to be done on those mpg numbers

johnabrown.....i agree with your comment and i agree that the pilot does move its weight around well once the rpm's get up a little higher.

What do you mean by "once".

All I do is step on it and rearely does anything pull away from a toll booth as fast as I do!

 

What do you mean by "once".

All I do is step on it and rearely does anything pull away from a toll booth as fast as I do!

Especially given that you didn't pay :2:

 

Especially given that you didn't pay :2:

I always pay.

I just find it is much safer letting everyone else fight for a lane BEHIND me as they merge!

 

When it was loaded down it stayed right in a single gear and I was doing 80+ straight up the hill. I have noticed when its not loaded down and go up the same hill it gear hunts. I thought torque was an issue (compared to the big rig turbo diesel) but when it loaded down it has no problems at all climbing (just don't know about towning)

Having bought mine on June 29th and today is Aug 10 and I have about 4200 miles on it, you can tell I have been on the road. I noticed what you are talking about. When it is empty or lightly loaded and I am going 65 -70, it seems like I barely touch the pedal or go up a slight hill and it down shifts to 4th; it seemed to hunt back and forth. On the trip I just took, I was traveling 65 - 75 the entire way fully loaded with 4 people and lots of luggage (but not enough to use my new Thule Escape Bag - wife says don't worry, we will use it) and it seldom shifted. It was like it stayed in 4th or at least wasn't as sensitive to shifting.

My wife, Parnelli Kathy oopps :runaway: had a new 79 Camaro when we got married and she hasn't mentioned anything about a lack or torque.

 

Having bought mine on June 29th and today is Aug 10 and I have about 4200 miles on it, you can tell I have been on the road. I noticed what you are talking about. When it is empty or lightly loaded and I am going 65 -70, it seems like I barely touch the pedal or go up a slight hill and it down shifts to 4th; it seemed to hunt back and forth. On the trip I just took, I was traveling 65 - 75 the entire way fully loaded with 4 people and lots of luggage (but not enough to use my new Thule Escape Bag - wife says don't worry, we will use it) and it seldom shifted. It was like it stayed in 4th or at least wasn't as sensitive to shifting.
.

It is not downshifting, it is the torque converter unlocking.

When you are loaded, it is probably already unlocked, so more torque is readily available.

 

SCOOB-7.5% AND 22% better mpg

Scoob,I see those numbers 19 vs 20.5 and 25 vs 29.5 mpg-roughly 7.5% city and 22% better hy,and it makes my case.The Pilot and the 4 Runner are about the same weight-power-accel,but the Pilot beats it handily in mpg because it is a 6cyl and the 4 Runner is a 8 cyl.Thanks.Charlie

 

Re: SCOOB-7.5% AND 22% better mpg

Scoob,I see those numbers 19 vs 20.5 and 25 vs 29.5 mpg-roughly 7.5% city and 22% better hy,and it makes my case.The Pilot and the 4 Runner are about the same weight-power-accel,but the Pilot beats it handily in mpg because it is a 6cyl and the 4 Runner is a 8 cyl.Thanks.Charlie

That's true, but up here in the winter, when the Pilot's stuck in the snow (which it has been) and the 4Runner's still going ( hasn't been stuck yet ) the 4Runner's getting alot better mileage. :2:

Then again you don't have to worry about that where you are.

 

It is funny I saw this thread, I was just going to create something similar tonight. We've had our Pilot for a little over 4,000 miles now and I think the motor is lacking. The 255hp 3.5 liter V6 seems fine on paper, especially knowing the vehicle only has approximately a 4,450lbs curb weight (which is quite light for its size). But when I am driving around town or in NYC, even under moderately hard acceleration the transmission will bring the engine to around 4,000rpm before it upshifts. And then when I am getting onto the highways, I feel like the Pilot does not hustle at all unless I put the pedal to the metal. Even just cruising at 60mph or so, every time I accelerate to go a bit quicker, the tranny just downshifts to 4th, and then upshifts back to 5th once I've leveled out.

Obviously this 3.5 liter V6 is a typical Honda motor where both horsepower and torque are available up high in the rev range, and there is just not much power down low. I do not agree with this kind of setup for an SUV and I think it is evident in the Pilot's weak towing capacity. In this vehicle, I would rather have at least a 4.0L V6 that produces the same amount of horsepower, but provides more torque down low. The only thing that makes the Pilot's 3.5 liter V6 acceptable, in my opinion, is the fact that it is a Honda motor and it runs buttery smooth at 4K+ rpm, and as long as the transmission and engine are willing to jump into those high revs for the real power, so am I.

 

I don't understand the objections to the overdrive transmission down-shifting - it's supposed to do that. Fifth gear lockup is only for cruising on the highway, overcoming wind resistance, and fuel economy. Maybe it drops out of overdrive more easily than other cars I've driven, but that's OK because I find myself zipping past most other cars on long upgrades and it seems effortless.

As for torque, most other SUVs have more low-end torque and go from 0-30 really quick, but then they just slug out 30-60. The Pilot's acceleration is more consistent.

 

Don't you guys test drive vehicles before you buy them? Low-end torque is not and will never be a strong suit of any Honda product.

To answer the question posed by this thread, no, I'm not - it has what it needs to get the job done. Push the pedal down moderately and it goes - and it does it faster than most others in its class...

But it's no Z28 Camaro. If it felt like a Camaro, I'd be pretty upset about the state of the modern muscle car!

Drive a 3.0L Taurus fo a week - as I did on a recent business trip - and then get in the Pilot. You'll feel like you're in a Ferrari!

 

:roadtrip: Yep, feels like my Ferrari! :roadtrip:

 

Drive a 3.0L Taurus fo a week - as I did on a recent business trip - and then get in the Pilot. You'll feel like you're in a Ferrari!

That would be a Redrock Pearl Ferrari with fogs!