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We just won't agree on KIA. I find it morally and socially repugnant for KIA to be adding $5k over MSRP during this pandemic. There are hundreds of millions of people globally out of work, and KIA is worried about their profit margins? I will never shop them again because I have very strong feelings about our responsibilities as citizens. Some behaviors it is incumbent on us to change as responsible citizens. So I respect your opinion on the issue, but KIA is off my list permanently.
I tend to agree with you on Ford - I am just shocked at their pricing, and what you get for the money paid. The interiors look like something made by the EZ Bake oven version of modern car manufacturing lol. I do like the 3.5 EcoBoost though - that's a pretty nice engine.
I think this was already mentioned, but Kia isn't adding $5k over MSRP, they're setting the MSRP. The individual dealers are adding the mark-up because they can. Similarly, Chevy better be off your list, because the new Corvette is in huge demand and gets a premium over sticker. Again -- GM doesn't get the mark-up, the dealer sets it and collects it (again, because they can). And Honda...well, dealers have been known to add a "market adjustment" over MSRP to the Civic Type-R. It looks like Honda is off your list, too.

Let me ask you this: If you were selling your car before buying a new one, would you not take an additional $5k for it if that's what the market offered? Or would you declare it a time of pandemic and insist on getting only what KBB says it's worth?
 

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We just won't agree on KIA. I find it morally and socially repugnant for KIA to be adding $5k over MSRP during this pandemic. There are hundreds of millions of people globally out of work, and KIA is worried about their profit margins? I will never shop them again because I have very strong feelings about our responsibilities as citizens. Some behaviors it is incumbent on us to change as responsible citizens. So I respect your opinion on the issue, but KIA is off my list permanently.
I tend to agree with you on Ford - I am just shocked at their pricing, and what you get for the money paid. The interiors look like something made by the EZ Bake oven version of modern car manufacturing lol. I do like the 3.5 EcoBoost though - that's a pretty nice engine.
If people are out of jobs, they shouldn’t be buying cars anyways. The Telluride was selling for above MSRP before all this crap started. There’s a lot of demand so they can do that. They didn’t raise their prices as a result of the pandemic. But if you don't want to consider Kia, it doesn’t really matter what your reason is. Just know, there are other options besides the Pilot.

It’s not the manufacturers responsibility to lower their prices because some people are hurting financially. And from what I can tell they are offering some assistance such as no payments for several months and low interest.
 

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We just won't agree on KIA. I find it morally and socially repugnant for KIA to be adding $5k over MSRP during this pandemic. There are hundreds of millions of people globally out of work, and KIA is worried about their profit margins? I will never shop them again because I have very strong feelings about our responsibilities as citizens. Some behaviors it is incumbent on us to change as responsible citizens. So I respect your opinion on the issue, but KIA is off my list permanently.
I tend to agree with you on Ford - I am just shocked at their pricing, and what you get for the money paid. The interiors look like something made by the EZ Bake oven version of modern car manufacturing lol. I do like the 3.5 EcoBoost though - that's a pretty nice engine.
I still contend that you are disgusted with the DEALERS, not the manufacturer. Dealers set final pricing, the MSRP for the Telluride is extremely class competitive.

So you should also chastise other dealers that have had desirable vehicles through the pandemic... how many Ford GT500s do you think left the lots for MSRP? Or C8 Corvettes? Or Challenger Track Packs?

I agree that dealers are scumbags and dealers that do this are even more disgusting, but I hold those dealers accountable, not the brands they sell... so I buy the brand I want to buy from o a dealership that isn't playing those games.

I hate Elon Musk and Saturn vehicles, but they are on to something... it's so much less stressful to buy a car when the prices are nonnegotiable.
 

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Sorry Tacoma'03Pilot, I must respectfully disagree with one of your statements. There is one car that will drain you wallet faster than a cheap Mercedes-Benz. That is an expensive Mercedes-Benz. Parts and fluids are ridiculously expensive for the SL class.
I can't argue your point, but I think it's all about the context.

Buying a sub-$1000 early '90's 300E will cost a lot, and when you're $15k into it, you have an early '90's 300E where everything works like it's supposed to, for a while longer.

Buying a current-vintage SL for $140k or so gets you a finely-upholstered rocket ship that will compensate for whatever real or imagined deficiency a guy ever had. The 2% maintenance expense annually is not nothing, but if the $140k didn't scare you off, the $2,800 probably won't, either.

For me, a clearer example is the active suspension they used in the S-class around 2000. The resale value of those cars is pretty low, mainly due to the extremely high cost of fixing that hydro-pneumatic German nightmare. They're like wooden sailboats - lovely to look at, cheap to get into, quite expensive to live with.
 

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For me, a clearer example is the active suspension they used in the S-class around 2000. The resale value of those cars is pretty low, mainly due to the extremely high cost of fixing that hydro-pneumatic German nightmare. They're like wooden sailboats - lovely to look at, cheap to get into, quite expensive to live with.
Don't forget the biodegradable wiring harnesses.
http://www.badmercedes.com/
 

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But honestly, I don't see much out there that I like compared to the Pilot. I keep looking because my 2016 has been a very expensive car to own these last 10 months or so, and I can't help but feel like I may be better off getting rid of it. However, as I keep looking at options, I see the Subaru Ascent has a LOT of quality and what look like design flaws and the 3rd row is frankly too small. I like the look and feel of the Telluride, but Kia has lost my business forever with this nonsense of charging $5k over MSRP in the middle of a pandemic, I literally won't even shop them ever again. I like the Palisade but let's face it, it is expensive. The Ford is expensive to buy-in but does hold it's resale well, so perhaps cost of ownership isn't so bad once you're in? Still that buy-in is just painful. I really don't like the look of the Highlander although I would consider owning one if I happened to find a good deal, and again the 3rd row is just too small. So as I go down the list, I just don't see a good way to replace the Pilot anytime soon. I guess I'm just musing and wondering what you guys think when you balance out the cost of ownership, purchase and the actual usability of the 3rd row, which we need for our family? 🍺 🤙
I had the same dilemma when I ran into too many issues with my 2019 EXL. The only other SUV that seemed comparable is the Nissan Pathfinder. but! It is going through a whole redesign for 2021 and it's not available yet. Even Nissan corporate couldn't tell me when it might be on the market due to factory shutdowns earlier this year. Dealers haven't been able to place orders. No clues as to what the 21 will bring. I ended up with the 21 Pilot. I confirmed there were no recalls performed on it prior to purchase. Only have 500 miles on so too soon to comment. I do turn off the idle/stop. The CBMS isn't quite as sensitive as my 19 which is good.
 

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Why do people like the Telluride so much? I've never been in one, but based off videos, it doesn't seem too special. It just has a few minor advantages over the Pilot here and there, but I never found it worth waiting until 2021 and paying over MSRP for a Kia.
 

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Why do people like the Telluride so much? I've never been in one, but based off videos, it doesn't seem too special. It just has a few minor advantages over the Pilot here and there, but I never found it worth waiting until 2021 and paying over MSRP for a Kia.
Never ridden in one either, but the advantages are clear IMO over most 3-row SUVs.

1. Usable 3rd row
2. (Reasonably) Attractive design
3. Up-to-date tech/infotainment
4. 10 year warranty.

I agree, I'd never pay an over-MSRP premium for one, but for those that have the money to burn....why not!
 

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Why do people like the Telluride so much? I've never been in one, but based off videos, it doesn't seem too special. It just has a few minor advantages over the Pilot here and there, but I never found it worth waiting until 2021 and paying over MSRP for a Kia.
It checks a lot of boxes, and has done very well in comparison reviews against the competition.

That said, I test drove the Hyundai version, and while it was nice, I wasn't a huge fan. The vehicle looked and drove "big" -- it wasn't too comfortable to me. Clearly I'm in the minority based on sales.
 

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Why do people like the Telluride so much? I've never been in one, but based off videos, it doesn't seem too special. It just has a few minor advantages over the Pilot here and there, but I never found it worth waiting until 2021 and paying over MSRP for a Kia.
As I've learned in my years of marriage, no point in trying to convince someone who doesn't like something why they should like it...

I've driven quite a few of the vehicles in this segment (and we own 2 of them). IMO the reasons it is compelling are as follows:

  1. Interesting interior and exterior design in a segment that has a lot of aged or plain designs.
  2. Superior equipment levels and materials at comparable prices to competitors.
  3. Warranty.
  4. Brand ratings have shot up for Hyundai and Kia in the last 10 years, so people looking at JD Power and Consumer Reports won't see crappy reliability.
  5. Building on #2, cutting edge tech is available. Digital gauge clusters, turn signal cameras in the gauge cluster, etc. etc.
You can say the style isn't for you all you want, but when they were first released the Telluride got tons of hype just on how the outside looks. It matters and it shows in sales.
 

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I shopped around and checked out all 3rd-row vehicles (not counting Large fullsize suvs like expedition etc..). My top 2 was the pilot and the telluride. I ended up going with pilot because was able to negotiate to get the price down, and get what i wanted. The tellurides were so in demand 10-11 months ago I had to take what they had to and truly take advantage of the features of the telluride you need to get one of the top trim packages but most that had it were not that. For my family the pilot was the winner for cost reliability etc.. I use 3rd row every day but I have younger kids. I agree and adult in 3rd row for long period of time would not be fun. But it will be great for us for next 5-8 years. Even with the poping noise (which is hopefully now fixed). I wouldn't go back and buy anything different. BUT all that said if you get either I think you will be doing good.
 

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Never ridden in one either, but the advantages are clear IMO over most 3-row SUVs.

1. Usable 3rd row
2. (Reasonably) Attractive design
3. Up-to-date tech/infotainment
4. 10 year warranty.

I agree, I'd never pay an over-MSRP premium for one, but for those that have the money to burn....why not!
The 3rd row space is pretty similar to the Pilot IMO. The infotainment seems pretty basic compared to the Pilot. Probably since the Pilot has colorful icons and Kia is just black and white lol. I've heard a lot of people say that their Kia dealer won't fix their car when they have engine problems which makes me wonder if it's just a thing to fish customers in. It does of course depend on your dealer if the want to fix it or not. I'm not sure about newer ones, but Kia power trains usually last 100k miles which is the end of the warranty. Design is debatable, but I'm clearly in the minority for not liking the design.
 

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I think another attractive thing about Kia/Hyundai is that they offer really good financing. No interest and deferred payments, or super low interest. Honda has decent financing options but not amazing.

Honda in general is kind of behind the times when it comes to technology. But, quality is much greater. There's a large portion of the population that just want features and technology and don't really care about long term reliability. Honda may not be as advanced, but in general they last forever. I think the Korean SUVs have a really strong chance of beating Honda in the future when it comes to 3 row SUVs but time will tell.

I choose Honda/Toyota because I know they are reliable, but it I can be shown why the Palisade/Telluride are reliable I would have no problem switching.
 

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I think another attractive thing about Kia/Hyundai is that they offer really good financing. No interest and deferred payments, or super low interest. Honda has decent financing options but not amazing.

Honda in general is kind of behind the times when it comes to technology. But, quality is much greater. There's a large portion of the population that just want features and technology and don't really care about long term reliability. Honda may not be as advanced, but in general they last forever. I think the Korean SUVs have a really strong chance of beating Honda in the future when it comes to 3 row SUVs but time will tell.

I choose Honda/Toyota because I know they are reliable, but it I can be shown why the Palisade/Telluride are reliable I would have no problem switching.
I didn't buy a Hyundai/Kia, but the 10 year warranty sort of speaks for itself with regard to reliability. They either have to build reasonable reliability in to the vehicles, or they're going to get killed on warranty claims over the course of the warranty term.
 

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Wonder which model has the best resale value after 15-20 years?
IMO the ez answer is traditionally 10-15 Year old Hondas/Toyota’s tend to hold value or cost more to buy used with higher mileage. Generally other vehicle values start to drift lower or depreciate faster as they age. Whether Kia/Hyundai can break through this stigma or reputation remains to be seen in the market place. Kia/Hyundai build & quality & styling now rivals among the best along with a better ten year warranty. An “honest” salesman I’ve known for nearly twenty years working at the same dealership (rare) and sends me a birthday card every year and calls yearly to make sure I’m good once told me “I don’t care if you do not buy from me but take brand x or y off the table as neither will retain value and be worth less on trade-in”. Kind of made sense then and probably still does. Things can change so we will see...
 

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I didn't buy a Hyundai/Kia, but the 10 year warranty sort of speaks for itself with regard to reliability. They either have to build reasonable reliability in to the vehicles, or they're going to get killed on warranty claims over the course of the warranty term.

As a former hyundai owner....

10 year warranty is nice but only for the power train.

I bought the extended bumper to bumper warranty and assumed I was covered. (Granted I got my money back after a few repairs to the A/C system).

5 years in the plastic trim on the exterior of the car deformed (window pillars).

6 years in 1st crack in the dashboard.

7 years in and the XM Shark fin ends up falling off in a car wash & now there are 4 cracks in the dashboard.

At 7 years there's only 50k miles on the car so it's not actually been very far.

Everytime I mentioned to the dealer, trim pieces are not included in the bumper to bumper warranty.
🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

But don't kid yourself for 1 second. They cut corners in places, you'll find them eventually... if you keep the Kia or Hyundai for 3-5 years, you'll probably never notice but you will eat shit on the resale/trade in value If you bought it brand new.
 
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