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How bad is this engine ring/VCM/lawsuit issue, really?

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2011 Pilot. 99,000 miles. Recently installed VMTuner.

My father with a 2012 Odyssey and 120k just threw a code, Dealer says needs new rings.


Got me to thinking - how do I know how much damage my engine has? My 8 year extended warranty per the lawsuit is up in April 2019. Should I ditch this car after that? Or is this not that big of a deal?

I change the oil per the MM, which ends up being every 8000 miles give or take. Use Mobil 1 EP, at least since we bought it with 50k miles. We consume around 1/2 quart in between oil changes (8k miles) before the VCMTuner.


My question really is - is there any way I can evaluate how much damage is done to this engine, or premature wear? Will a simple compression test show it? Will a dealer do the ring repair based on their own testing, or do they need the codes thrown before they will consider it?
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Yes, i have been with Honda for 13+ years




This is solid advice, Honda has issued a TSB ( Technical Service Bulletin ) regarding fouled spark plugs, i just recently finished a 2011 Odyssey that had DTC P0301 # 1 engine misfire and they used to have us just replace spark plugs 1-4, then update the PCM software to now go straight into replacing the piston rings.


For some reason only piston rings 1-3 are almost always affected, and we hardly see #4 go bad , i think we have only seen 2 since the recall/warranty extension has been issued that #4 misfire is recorded



I snapped some pics of the piston ring job i just did today


Curious?


Take a look



Cannot embed so click here
mannuel vega | Flickr
Thanks for the great info! I had a ring job done by Honda dealer 3 years ago and the P0302 code fired again (a few weeks ago, after only 31k miles after the ring job). I replaced an oil fouled plug and it seems to be running ok after clearing the code. I also needed to add 2/3 quart oil between the last change at 106k miles.
What do you recommend?
 

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Thanks for the great info! I had a ring job done by Honda dealer 3 years ago and the P0302 code fired again (a few weeks ago, after only 31k miles after the ring job). I replaced an oil fouled plug and it seems to be running ok after clearing the code. I also needed to add 2/3 quart oil between the last change at 106k miles.
What do you recommend?
svcm install
 

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2011 Pilot. 99,000 miles. Recently installed VMTuner.

My father with a 2012 Odyssey and 120k just threw a code, Dealer says needs new rings.


Got me to thinking - how do I know how much damage my engine has? My 8 year extended warranty per the lawsuit is up in April 2019. Should I ditch this car after that? Or is this not that big of a deal?

I change the oil per the MM, which ends up being every 8000 miles give or take. Use Mobil 1 EP, at least since we bought it with 50k miles. We consume around 1/2 quart in between oil changes (8k miles) before the VCMTuner.


My question really is - is there any way I can evaluate how much damage is done to this engine, or premature wear? Will a simple compression test show it? Will a dealer do the ring repair based on their own testing, or do they need the codes thrown before they will consider it?
I have a 2009 Honda Odyssey and got the plug fouled codes and low oil and was almost stranded 600 miles from home at night, so that was very serious to me. They extended the warranty to 8 years but I had previously purchased an 8-year warranty so I got nothing. I installed the VCM Muzler and that seemed to help. I think Honda took the easy way out on this one. Good luck.
 

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I have a 2009 Honda Odyssey and got the plug fouled codes and low oil and was almost stranded 600 miles from home at night, so that was very serious to me. They extended the warranty to 8 years but I had previously purchased an 8-year warranty so I got nothing. I installed the VCM Muzler and that seemed to help. I think Honda took the easy way out on this one. Good luck.


absolutely!
 

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Sorry for the position you are in. I am in a very similar spot with my 2011 (albeit much higher mileage) and my issues have been minimized drastically by the PCM reflash and the installation of the VCM Muzzler (posts #2, #51 sort of tell my story). I'm at 155k right now, I need to pull the plugs and post an update. Will try to do that this weekend.

Long story short:
  • New plugs at 60k per the Maintenence Minder
  • First P0301 was at @ ~90k miles. Threw in new plugs and ran fine. In general, it was burning about 1 qt every 5k miles (you may or may not consider this oil consumption 'fine', but at the time I knew nothing about the VCM issues and I was ok with burning oil if I didn't have to rebuild the engine on my dime at that time).
  • Second P0301 was at ~115k. At this point, I knew about the VCM suit and had Honda kickoff the first step of the ring replacement program (PCM reflash and new plugs in 1, 2, 3, & 4).
  • I installed the VCM Muzzler II @ ~130k. Kind of counterproductive IF my goal was to get Honda to redo the rings, because it should slow any ring wear caused by the VCM system, but I figured I would see if it would help at all. Also started doing oil changes at 4-6k miles, opposed to the typical 9-10k-ish miles that the Maintenence Minder says to do it.
  • Currently at 155k, have not fouled a plug since the reflash and new plugs at 115K. And now I am way past the 8 year mile mark. My Blackstone oil analysis shows that less metal from the rings is in the oil sample than prior to the reflash & VCM install (I know UOA's aren't the end-all-be-all determination of engine wear, but it is more than I know than without it. I attached my last 2 reports that describe the improvement I mentioned). Oil top-off is maybe .5-.75qt every oil change, so it is burning less oil now too.
Finally pulled my plugs. I guess they look "ok". Love to hear other people's opinions. So these have been in for 55k mi. Muzzler for the last 40k. Oil changes were done between 4-6k miles each time. Oil consumption is between .75 and 1.25qts between each change. Not sure if the engine is getting any healthier, but it's not getting worse! That's a win!

Also, zero oil in the plug tubes, but a little bit on the #1 threads it looks like to me. Close up is #1.
Liquid Glass bottle Fluid Drinkware Cosmetics

Automotive tire Tread Tire Wood Suspension
 

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I have a 2009 Honda Pilot, milage is at 181,000, this sounds good regarding the problems this car has with the piston rings recall. I had a check engine light come on and the VSA light as well. I took it to Honda and they diagnosed it with "fould spark plugs cylinder #2 and multiple misfires cylinders 1-3". I am way passed the extended warranty for this recall, just wanted some advice on getting rid of this car but needing this car to last me for at least another 3 months. Do I go about replacing spark plugs 1-3 and getting a VCM. Car feels fine but I just want to get the most money for this car when trading it in.
 

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I have a 2009 Honda Pilot, milage is at 181,000, this sounds good regarding the problems this car has with the piston rings recall. I had a check engine light come on and the VSA light as well. I took it to Honda and they diagnosed it with "fould spark plugs cylinder #2 and multiple misfires cylinders 1-3". I am way passed the extended warranty for this recall, just wanted some advice on getting rid of this car but needing this car to last me for at least another 3 months. Do I go about replacing spark plugs 1-3 and getting a VCM. Car feels fine but I just want to get the most money for this car when trading it in.
I installed an SVCM and have been running very well for past 3 months. I also ran Sea Foam through the throttle body to clean things up before replacing all 6 plugs. So far, so good thanks to suggestions from fellow Piloteers!
 

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Hi,

I recently purchased a 2010 Pilot with 60000 miles. I was getting a slight shudder from 20-40 MPH when not accelerating hard. It sounds a lot like the less intrusive mentions of the problem in this thread. I took it to a dealer and had a 60k service done which was pretty basic but did change transmission fluid. They stuck to the company line of not doing a VCM delete and talked to me about the TSB but said they didn't think mine was having the problem in their personal opinion and it definitely wasn't hitting the standard for the TSB (throwing codes for specific reasons), and I generally trust this dealer. After the service it does generally seem to be better, or I just got more used to. However, when specifically looking for it, I can barely find it anymore.

My question is if it's not really having issues, should I still do a VCM delete anyways? Is this a generally guaranteed issue at some point if I don't do a VCM delete?
 

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Hi,

I recently purchased a 2010 Pilot with 60000 miles. I was getting a slight shudder from 20-40 MPH when not accelerating hard. It sounds a lot like the less intrusive mentions of the problem in this thread. I took it to a dealer and had a 60k service done which was pretty basic but did change transmission fluid. They stuck to the company line of not doing a VCM delete and talked to me about the TSB but said they didn't think mine was having the problem in their personal opinion and it definitely wasn't hitting the standard for the TSB (throwing codes for specific reasons), and I generally trust this dealer. After the service it does generally seem to be better, or I just got more used to. However, when specifically looking for it, I can barely find it anymore.

My question is if it's not really having issues, should I still do a VCM delete anyways? Is this a generally guaranteed issue at some point if I don't do a VCM delete?
My original take on this was if im not having issues, why fix something thats not broke. One i understood that this was a major design flaw that could/will show up down the road with oil consumption issues, i started to read about it. understanding that if the cylinder is deactivated, the valve is closed but the piston is still moving, creating a suction / negative pressure that over time will pull in oil past the oil control rings into the cylinder, thus burning oil. the residual oil left on the rings creates a bigger gap for more oil to come into the cylinder
I finally was on board! so i wanted to understand how to disable it , and be convinced it was not hurting my car. I found one of the vcm disable kits thats plug and play. ( had my 16 year old son do it while i watched. Your pilot wants to see your car fully warmed up before it will allow the vcm to disable cylinders. Basically this kit deceives the engine temp sensor by a few degrees so that it wont disable cylinders. it drives much nicer this way imo.
creating the vcm system was honda attempt at making fuel milage ratings, which is why they are not fixing the issue unless it meets warranty requirements. many of thes piston ring issues will be after warranty is up and could be prevented by disabling the vcm
 
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