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Honda did the ring on cyl #1-2-3 and plug 1to 4 after it take 3L Of oil between eatch oil change affter 20 000km a valve broke in cyl #6 du too the exes carbone i open the motor and the cyl 4 To 6 are grooved. I tink Wen the ecu cut the cyl it gose cold wen it gose back the oil on the ring cook good luck
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2011 Pilot. 99,000 miles. Recently installed VMTuner.

My father with a 2012 Odyssey and 120k just threw a code, Dealer says needs new rings.


Got me to thinking - how do I know how much damage my engine has? My 8 year extended warranty per the lawsuit is up in April 2019. Should I ditch this car after that? Or is this not that big of a deal?

I change the oil per the MM, which ends up being every 8000 miles give or take. Use Mobil 1 EP, at least since we bought it with 50k miles. We consume around 1/2 quart in between oil changes (8k miles) before the VCMTuner.


My question really is - is there any way I can evaluate how much damage is done to this engine, or premature wear? Will a simple compression test show it? Will a dealer do the ring repair based on their own testing, or do they need the codes thrown before they will consider it?
Compression check would certainly show it if there is a problem with a cylinder compared to the others. I believe #3 and #4 cylinders are the ones that drop out at highway speeds. I can confirm that the spark plug on my #4 cylinder in my 2012 Crosstour (225k mles with VCM) has more discoloration than the others. This vehicle is used mostly at highway speeds. I have another 2012 Crosstour at 99k and will be disabling the VCM soon. I have no reason to think we can't get 100k more miles out of this one.
 

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I am in your same exact shoes. Has your car ever fouled a plug to the point you lost the use of that cylinder? Have ever you changed the plugs?

Can someone chime in and offer advice on whether a leak down test would help us evaluate the amount of ring wear. I am fairly sure that is what that test is designed to do, but I am not certain.


My lengthy story is here, feel free to skip reading this, but I thought it might help a little to include it - I have a 2011 am at 127k and my 8 year mark expires in April. The cyl #1 plug fouled on my at about 90k (I had changed the plugs at 60k per the Honda schedule). At the time I did not know about the ECM suit, so I simply threw in a new plug and went about my business. When the car was at ~115k, #1 fouled again. At this point I learned about the ECM recall/lawsuit. I took the car to Honda and asked them if my car was a candidate for the ring replacement. They said it is a two step process and performed step 1 (replaced the #1-4 plugs and reflashed the ECM with the new program for cylinder deactivation). They said they only do step 2 (replace the rings) IF the car fouls plugs again. Fortunately (or more like unfortunately) it hasn't happened again yet. So now I am left thinking that I have 115k miles on my engine where excessive wear was occurring, but now it is band-aided enough to not foul a plug or throw a code and my motor will now not last as long as I had hoped and Honda will not remedy the situation if/WHEN it occurs again in a short while AND I am quickly running out of time (sorry about the run on).

I pulled the #1 plug two days ago and it is crusted in white, which in my experience is a sign of oil leakage into the cylinder. I also pulled #6 as a comparison (and since that cylinder doesn't deactivate) and it was much less crusted, but still slightly more then what I would call 'normal'. But since I haven't thrown a code yet, I Honda won't do anything. Super frustrating.
My #1 plug was caked with oil and burnt out 8/11/2020 just took it in and they are doing a RE-ring on cylinders 1.2 and 3 and it is covered
 

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l wanted to express my concern regarding the piston issue, and Honda's coverage....

It was determined that my wife's 2013 Pilot has a piston misfire and I was informed that this is a known challenge with that model year, and that there is an active campaign for that year with unlimited mileage limitations.

Unfortunately, it was determined that it is a vin specific campaign and therefore even though it was the corresponding year and fell within the coverage range, Honda determined my vin does not qualify.

I spoke to Honda's customer service and they advised that there would also not be any "good will" consideration for my wife's case as we only have a short history with Honda , having owned the vehicle for 1 year and it being our first.

So yes, I am disappointed, anyone else have a similar experience?






probably not even 10%, think of the millions of pilots that they had built only to find that xxx% of those millions have piston ring issues.


And to be honest Honda actually had stepped up the warranty AND the goodwill warranty on these engines.

The warranty is 8 years unlimited mileage from original purchase date regardless of original owner.

So if you buy a 2012, with 256,000 miles and it has either a 1-4 misfire and the spark plugs are fouled, guess what ?


They are paying the dealership to install new rings free of charge. And it's normally a $4,000-$5,000 repair bill that is on them ( Honda ) And not only to they replace the rings on the affected cylinder, they pay for replacing of the rings on the other 2,3 and 4 cylinders that may be also affected.



They have literally upped their warranty extension game, i don't know of any other car maker that would pay for extra repairs that weren't even affected .

PLUS to the dealership it's free money , IMO it's a win/win for the customer AND the dealership .



The only thing that IS required is that the engine fall under the affected cylinder ( it has to code on it's own for either cylinders 1,2,3 or 4 ) and it can't have a rebuilt title or salvaged .

They won't pay for new piston rings if it has a rebuilt or salvaged title. Other than that if it falls under the warranty criteria , regardless of miles, they will pay for new rings and in some cases they will even pay for a rental car ( obviously if you meet the rental facility's criteria to drive a rental )


I hope that answers some questions
 

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I spoke to Honda's customer service and they advised that there would also not be any "good will" consideration for my wife's case as we only have a short history with Honda , having owned the vehicle for 1 year and it being our first.
Makes you want to run out and buy another Honda right?


Curious... has anyone with problems considered trying ashless dispersant (AD) oil to prevent the fouling? You’ll still burn too much oil, but at least the oil will burn without fouling. Aircraft engines use AD oil ONLY because they burn a lot of oil. Most a quart every 8-10 hours. Problem with aircraft oil is it’s generally quite thick 20w-50 or straight 50 are most common. This got me looking to see if there maybe other AD oils that are lower viscosity. It looks like Phillips does make one focused on natural gas engines in 5w-30. Wonder if this could be a decent temporary hack for those who are getting denied repairs by Honda for their fantastic engineering.


Just a though... anyone considered it?
 

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I have a question about this. My 2011 had an issue a few months back, and basically the entire engine needed work. Now, I get a P0301 cylinder one misfire every couple of days, and I can tell there is oil burning out the exhaust. Would this be something associated with the lawsuit? Would there be any course of action I could take?
 

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OK, not liking what I'm reading here....just purchased used 2011 Pilot EX 4WD with 86500 miles, one owner, two weeks ago tomorrow.....Daughter driving this past Friday and VTM-4 light came on, flashing engine light and VSA light....she brought back home. I let it sit for a bit and turned back on, engine light constantly on and VTM-4 and VSA not lighting. Drove around the block and seemed to run fine, but hooked up cheap coder reader I had and it is saying Cylinder 3 misfire.....I'm finding it a bit coincidental this happened a week and a half after purchase and the previous owner had never seen a light or code as they claim. Any way to scan and find out if it was throwing codes previously?
 

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When our 08 FWD had the VSA light cone on and stay on while cruising, then it would go into limp mode and run like crap. Next start after cooling, would run fine again, etc.
Local shop replaced the something like the VSA solenoid and VSA pump? Was nearly $1000. It's ran fine since that, over a year ago.
 

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And how would one go about doing this?? So pissed at myself for not researching this stupid engine idea before buying one of these. Talk about a recipe for disaster long term....
If it makes you feel better, I did the same. Jumped on a good deal on a pilot based on the first gen my folks owned being still on the road 3rd owner and then researched the eco mode shit.

Just for reference I have this one: AST VCMuzzler II Disable / muzzle VCM Honda Acura Muzzler 2 Pilot Odyssey SC2 | eBay

it has a temp sensor and only turns on after the car reaches 165F. I have to move the sensor closer to the engine in winter and farther for summer as it can get messed up a bit by ambiant air temp but other wise it works great. I am happy with it and it looks like he's got a newer one:

www.ebay.ca

NEW 2020 AST VCM Muzzler, ECO Controller, Honda Pilot Accord Odyssey, Acura, SC3 | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for NEW 2020 AST VCM Muzzler, ECO Controller, Honda Pilot Accord Odyssey, Acura, SC3 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.ca

He was great customer service wise. I F'd up the buy it now one my phone and clicked the wrong model year. He swapped it for the right connector and has answered all my questions promptly etc. I'd buy another from him if I needed it.

The other 2 recommended is the S-VCM and the VCM Tuner II and there are links to those on the site but I couldn't grab one quick. Google should get you to those.
 

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Thanks, but muzzling the VCM doesn't help the rings heal if they're bad because of this bs engineering....the fact it has the cylinder 3 misfire at this mileage almost certainly means I have the ring issue imo. It's past the class action lawsuit warranty extension so I may have to get a lawyer involved myself if they come back telling me the rings need replaced and I'm SOL on Honda covering it.
 

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Thanks, but muzzling the VCM doesn't help the rings heal if they're bad because of this bs engineering....the fact it has the cylinder 3 misfire at this mileage almost certainly means I have the ring issue imo. It's past the class action lawsuit warranty extension so I may have to get a lawyer involved myself if they come back telling me the rings need replaced and I'm SOL on Honda covering it.
Hello,
Not to argue b/c I'm not. But a code or a cyl. #3 misfire does NOT necessarily mean you have bad ring wear in a cylinder!
Try doing some other maintenance and see if you can get the code to go away.

** Case in point- I had a MIL (CEL) light on my 2001 Dodge Dakota V8 4.7L SOHC engine recently.
It said Cylinder #2 misfire- and it CAN be caused by a LOT of things.
So, I bought 1 spark plug, and inspected the Coil over plug pack. It looked good.
The Plug looked almost new after at least 100K miles on it!
I also looked at my K&N reusable air cleaner. It was so dirty, it was gross! I haven't cleaned it in at least 7 years.

I cleaned the air filter, re oiled and re used. I changed the one plug that looked great.

No more lights on the dash, in over 1500 miles!
I never once thought my rings were bad b/c of that light.

I'm not saying your are OK- I don't know. But I do know it's worth sorting other things first.
If you think the rings are that worn, then do a compression test- then you'll know.

IMHO
 

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Thanks, but muzzling the VCM doesn't help the rings heal if they're bad because of this bs engineering....the fact it has the cylinder 3 misfire at this mileage almost certainly means I have the ring issue imo. It's past the class action lawsuit warranty extension so I may have to get a lawyer involved myself if they come back telling me the rings need replaced and I'm SOL on Honda covering it.
To disable or not, I'd choose disable to start correcting the excessive oil being pumped into the cylinder and burned. Then all 6 cylinders firing 100% of the time will begin to clean things up. I'd try this first. Then I'd consider doing a piston soak before taking the engine apart.
 

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Check your plugs too, the one on that cylinder could be fouled too much to spark. disable VCM put new plug and run it for a while and see if it gets better, I have had missfires due to counter fit plug failure on my CRV that has no VCM.
 

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Hello,
Not to argue b/c I'm not. But a code or a cyl. #3 misfire does NOT necessarily mean you have bad ring wear in a cylinder!
Try doing some other maintenance and see if you can get the code to go away.

** Case in point- I had a MIL (CEL) light on my 2001 Dodge Dakota V8 4.7L SOHC engine recently.
It said Cylinder #2 misfire- and it CAN be caused by a LOT of things.
So, I bought 1 spark plug, and inspected the Coil over plug pack. It looked good.
The Plug looked almost new after at least 100K miles on it!
I also looked at my K&N reusable air cleaner. It was so dirty, it was gross! I haven't cleaned it in at least 7 years.

I cleaned the air filter, re oiled and re used. I changed the one plug that looked great.

No more lights on the dash, in over 1500 miles!
I never once thought my rings were bad b/c of that light.

I'm not saying your are OK- I don't know. But I do know it's worth sorting other things first.
If you think the rings are that worn, then do a compression test- then you'll know.

IMHO
Well, when we took it to dealer to find out the #3 misfire reason, they said 1-3 plugs needed replaced and update to pcm software just like the first step on the TSB for the lawsuit settlement about the BS vcm system.

Guy at dealer said this was first step and if it's the rings we'll get a misfire again in a month or so.

I think Honda is full of $&%# and can go #$&% themselves they know full well their lame engineering caused this crap. No way rings go bad on a well maintained vehicle. Which this was the dealer printed out a history as the previous owner bought from the dealer I took it to and did ALL maintenance there.

If it goes bad again and Honda doesn't make it right and costs me $3000+ to fix, it will definitely be the last Honda I ever purchase and I will not go away quietly. :)
 

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Guy at dealer said this was first step and if it's the rings we'll get a misfire again in a month or so.
Sorry for the position you are in. I am in a very similar spot with my 2011 (albeit much higher mileage) and my issues have been minimized drastically by the PCM reflash and the installation of the VCM Muzzler (posts #2, #51 sort of tell my story). I'm at 155k right now, I need to pull the plugs and post an update. Will try to do that this weekend.

Long story short:
  • New plugs at 60k per the Maintenence Minder
  • First P0301 was at @ ~90k miles. Threw in new plugs and ran fine. In general, it was burning about 1 qt every 5k miles (you may or may not consider this oil consumption 'fine', but at the time I knew nothing about the VCM issues and I was ok with burning oil if I didn't have to rebuild the engine on my dime at that time).
  • Second P0301 was at ~115k. At this point, I knew about the VCM suit and had Honda kickoff the first step of the ring replacement program (PCM reflash and new plugs in 1, 2, and 3).
  • I installed the VCM Muzzler II @ ~130k. Kind of counterproductive IF my goal was to get Honda to redo the rings, because it should slow any ring wear caused by the VCM system, but I figured I would see if it would help at all. Also started doing oil changes at 4-6k miles, opposed to the typical 9-10k-ish miles that the Maintenence Minder says to do it.
  • Currently at 155k, have not fouled a plug since the reflash and new plugs at 115K. And now I am way past the 8 year mile mark. My Blackstone oil analysis shows that less metal from the rings is in the oil sample than prior to the reflash & VCM install (I know UOA's aren't the end-all-be-all determination of engine wear, but it is more than I know than without it. I attached my last 2 reports that describe the improvement I mentioned). Oil top-off is maybe .5-.75qt every oil change, so it is burning less oil now too.
So what I am trying to get it is that there is a good chance your engine is still in good shape. But I fully understand your pain of just having purchased a Pilot expecting "Honda reliability" and now you are dealing with this crap. Maybe find a shop to do a leakdown test to confirm if #3 is indeed more worn than the others? I asked Honda to do it and they said no (unless I wanted to pay for it).

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