Honda Pilot VS Subaru Ascent

cintocrunch said:

Care to elaborate for our knowledge and for people who may be considering but haven't owned a scoob?

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Many little things over the years, some just annoying and some really expensive. First and foremost it needed a head gasket @ 75k miles which is completely unacceptable but very common for Subaru boxer engines, tires seemed to wear unevenly even after alignments, the heat was finicky and never really "off" i.e. it blew slowly out of the vents while climate control was completely off, and the AC didn't blow cold until the car moved roughly 5mph or faster (doesn't sound too bad until its a hot day and your stuck in traffic with hot air blowing on you until you can speed up). The car had been purchased by me brand new and always dealer serviced. Except for the head gasket issue the dealer said all the other things were working correctly. I traded it in for used Honda Accord and had nothing but great luck- rock solid reliability.

I still wanted to like the Ascent, I test drove it twice and almost purchased. It drives nice (higher up than the pilot) and had a surprising amount of power from a turbo 4 cylinder (if you haven't test drove one yet be sure to stomp on the gas when you do- you'll be pleasantly surprised), and I really liked the seat bolstering. I just couldn't commit to owning one again for all the reasons above. Check out the Subaru Ascent forum under complaints - I noticed a lot of people we're having the same issues with their brand new Ascent as I had with my 10 y/o Legacy! They have apparently fixed the head gasket issues on newer vehicles but I wonder if the turbo will hold up over time. Also, one more issue that bothered me was their remote start- its called Subaru Star link and they wanted to charge me I think it was 250 for 3 years. IMO its absurd to have have to pay a subscription to remote start your $40k+ vehicle.

Just my 2C anyways- good luck with whatever you decide!

Hello, all. New member here...we just purchased a 2022 Pilot Elite. For background, we've owned several Hondas and still own a 2009 Ridgeline RTL and a 2005 MDX Touring in addition to the Elite we just purchased. We're happy to be "all Honda" again.

We came from a 2020 Ascent Touring (top line trim in the Ascent) and I thought I'd add to the general collective of information here in this thread. I'm pasting this in from a post I wrote on an Ascent forum recently...so the "this car" refers to the Ascent we owned until this week and I was writing this to a Subaru audience. The "replacement transmission" mentioned in the post relates to a pending recall from Subaru to reprogram the software to correct a condition that could result in chain slip and a broken chain guide. If the computer scan by Subaru (during the recall) indicates that any chain slip has occured, they say they'll replace the entire transmission. Good on them...but our local Subie dealer is not good and we didn't want that sort of work carried out on that car. Combined with several issues that I think that Subaru should have gotten right by now, we decided to trade it. The local Honda dealer wouldn't give us the $42,400 that Carmax quoted me online in an email, so we just bought the Pilot straight out from the dealer and sold the Ascent to Carmax.

On to the comparison...Enjoy...!

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We felt that the trajectory on our ownership with this car wasn't heading in the right direction for us long term. The reliability of our particular car has been only so-so (the newest rev. D brakes continue to squeal, just like the rev. C brakes did). Our dealership has not been good to us, unfortunately. Sometimes this has an outsized effect on the ownership experience, which was the case for us. I'm certain that our car would get a new transmission this spring, which really scared my wife (our dealer can barely do an oil change or tire alignment). The completely flat battery on Christmas day sort of sealed it for us. We got to talking about it and I think we both were thinking similar things without actually having talked about it before.

We've seen this movie before, with a Chrysler Town & Country. We had the very good fortune of good timing to buy my folks' 2005 MDX when they were selling it right when our Chrysler experience was not looking good. And that move was a terrific move for us...we still have and enjoy that 2005 MDX.

So the Subie goes to Carmax tomorrow. I have a written quote from them for more than we paid for it, which is nice. We paid sticker for the 2022 Honda Pilot Elite that replaced our Ascent but, with the very good price we got from Carmax, the total difference is about $8,000, which is okay with me to (hopefully) get things going in the right direction again. This Pilot is very much like our folks' 2014 MDX, and I have a lot of seat time in that car. There are some things I'll miss on the Ascent and some things I like about the Pilot better. I'll describe some of those below.

EyeSight vs. Honda Sensing. There's no question here. EyeSight is just incredible. Honda Sensing works, but not nearly as fluidly as EyeSight (ACC is less smooth in HS than with ES). The Pilot will sense a car that jammed in front of us on the interstate and just pile on the brakes. Our Ascent never did that to us. I do like the lane keep assist better in the Pilot. I'd describe it as about halfway between Subaru's older lane keep assist and the newer lane centering. Honda's will generally keep you centered, but not as aggressively as Subaru's lane centering does. I like the balance there. Lane departure is also pretty neat in the Honda -- it'll light the dash and shake the steering wheel if you have that enabled. That's pretty cool but functionally pretty similar to Subaru's lane departure warning. The Pilot will NOT bring you to a stop on ACC, nor does it have auto vehicle hold. I understand the ABS or VSA module or something is an older generation that doesn't support those features. Bummer.

Subaru FA24F vs. Honda J35. I've never hid the fact that I love Honda's J-series V-6. We own two others and this one is just as sweet. It's super smooth, and pretty dadgum quiet unless you're up into the VTEC range. Subaru's throttle response is definitely quicker, but I've had a love/hate relationship with the Ascent's throttle mapping. The Pilot's is more like the 2.5L Outbacks I've driven, in that it's pretty linear and you generally need "more" throttle pedal to get the same response as you'd get in the Ascent. There's no question the 277 lb*ft at 2,000 rpm is noticeable in the Ascent...the Pilot definitely needs to rev more. But that seems like an academic distinction for me, as we don't tow heavy trailers, and the V-6 doesn't sound like it's straining...ever, really.

Subaru CVT vs. ZF 9-speed. Honda has apparently worked many of the programming oddities out of this transmission and it's pretty well-behaved in this Pilot. You can definitely feel it kick down on the road (from 9th to 8th or 7th) on hills. This is where the CVT was just brilliant for us. I do prefer the CVT's near instant response around town and in passing situations, but I won't miss the weird programming and shudders (hopefully to be programmed out with the latest recall!).

Interior size. The Pilot is dimensionally 3" wider than the Ascent and it definitely feels it. The dash is wide and the chairs are large. My wife shared that she didn't like the firmness of our Ascent (Touring) seats. I agree they're firm, and I think we both like the softer seats in the Pilot. It is the Elite trim with the heated and ventillated seats, but they're definitely softer. The total room behind the 1st row is pretty similar, but I think you can move the 2nd row in the Pilot further back than you can in the Ascent. The Pilot has minivan-like room in the 2nd row...but at the expense of a smaller 3rd row space. The Pilot's 3rd row is nearly on the floor, which is not ideal. The Ascent's 3rd row is definitely more comfortable. I give the Pilot the nod for 2nd row room and comfort. Both cars (our Pilot and Ascent) are 7-seaters.

Driving dynamics. There's no question the Ascent is the more sporty drive. The ride from our 2020 was never "soft". I'd describe it as pretty taut, and I think I've remarked before that I wouldn't want it any tighter. The Pilot definitely rides softer. While the Ascent drives and feels like a 3,500 pound SUV, the Pilot drives and rides more like a 5,000 pound SUV. There are definitely pros and cons to both. The Pilot is much more stable out on the road. The Ascent is much more engaging to scoot around on a back road. The Pilot is quieter in almost all circumstances...I'd liken the Ascent to a scrappy puppy vs. the older wise dog perhaps...the Ascent feels like it wants to go and charge all the time. The Pilot's just like..."chill, dude."

Value. We had to move up to the Elite trim to get some of the Ascent's features we liked, and still didn't get everything. The heated steering wheel and heated/ventillated seats are exclusive to the Elite. Interestingly, perforated leather is exclusive to the Elite also. After owning a CR-V with non-perforated leather before, I swore I'd never do that again. All of those were must-haves for us so even the Pilot Touring was out for us. The Elite stickered at almost $51k and that's what we paid for it. Sticker today on an Ascent Touring is probably around $48k, and you get a front camera, a Smart rearview camera, and a few other things you just can't get in the current generation Pilot. This is the last model year for the current generation Pilot, and I imagine the next generation (based on the 2022 Acura MDX, just as the 2016 Pilot was based on the 2014 MDX) will have some of these things that are now sought after features. The Ascent is definitely a high value vehicle, and that's what originally drove us to it.

Piloteer359 said:

Is there really any competition here? I don't trust Subaru's and think they are garbage now. In the nineties and before they were reliable but the new ones are cheap crap (yes I've owned a newer one)

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Subaru has some pretty strong and competitive offerings in their portfolio right now. The Crosstrek and Forester and Outback are their bread-and-butter and I think they execute those quite well.

I certainly couldn't say for sure, but I believe the Ascent was rushed to production...they badly needed to compete in the three-row market...and that shows in several areas. One of the most unexpected is front brakes. They're on their fourth version of the front brake pad part number now...they can't seem to find a formulation that won't end up toasted, glazed, noisy, etc. They don't have this problem in their Outback, Forester, etc., but it's been a frustratingly consistent problem with the Ascent. The Ascent was just recently recalled for a software update to fix a problem that can cause chain slip in the CVT under certain circumstances. I think ours experienced that at times, and this is the sort of thing that I'd not expect them to be finding two or three years into production. The FA24F/TR-690 powertrain is new in the Ascent. The engine isn't new and the heavy duty version of the CVT isn't new, but that combination in a 4,500 pound SUV is new and there have been some teething issues with it. One of my strongest complaints with it is the weird throttle mapping. The throttle (and the drive) is glass smooth in the naturally aspirated 2.5L cars, but the turbo 2.4L cars have some weird programming and it's a common discussion point in the Ascent forum.

We genuinely liked many aspects of the car, but the dealer really soured us on the whole experience. If we'd had an Outback or Forester, we'd likely still have the car and be happy with it. That Ascent drove like it weighed 1,000 fewer pounds than it really did. It was easy to forget it weighed well over two tons and I think they did a terrific job with the chassis. And their EyeSight system is often demonstrated as one of the better and more effective systems on the market.

There were folks on the Ascent forum who went there because they felt let down by Honda with a lemon Pilot, and they've had great service from their Ascent. Likewise, I'm sure there are folks here who have felt let down with a newer Subaru and love their Pilot. Both brands enjoy some pretty strong brand loyalty numbers and both brands are usually well in the upper 25% of reliability surveys. Generally, Subaru seems to be doing great things with their current portfolio, but I think the Ascent would have been a much better vehicle if it had a little more development time behind it...like, maybe another model year's worth of time.

cintocrunch said:

I was really intrigued by the Ascent, but my biggest letdowns were the size (too small) and the fact that everyone I know who has had a Subaru in the last 10 years has required an engine out service on it. I keep hearing head gaskets and other gaskets are a nonissue but these services tell me otherwise.

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Their major head gasket problems ended (for the most part anyway) with the EJ series. Boosted EJs were still used up until very recently in the WRX, but the naturally aspirated versions were phased out about 10 years ago in the Outback, Forester, etc., replaced by the FB series. The Ascent actually has an FA series engine (a variant of the FB), and a smaller displacement version is in the BRZ and Toyota 86 (the FA20). I will say that I really liked the engine in our Ascent (a turbocharged 2.4L version of the FA). It had torque EVERYWHERE and was very pleasant to drive. I love a Honda J-series engine (all three of our current cars have one!), but I was definitely impressed with the FA24F. Boxers are definitely unique and they have a certain "boomy" sound to them (even with a quiet exhaust), but it was fun to learn all about them. I'm sure they're not for everybody.

Ironically, the Ascent suffers many of the same problems Pilots suffer. Some people had infotainment problems with theirs. We know some years of Pilots suffer from this. Some people (including us) had hood flutter issues, where the hood skin wasn't bonded correctly to the hood frame underneath. There's a TSB to reglue it, and Honda has an almost identical TSB for Pilots and Ridgelines and maybe others. There's a recall for transmission programming on the Ascent -- a recall because it can result in chain breakage in a very severe scenario. But just about every Honda we've owned has had a transmission software update available for it at some point after production.

Its teething issues aside, I think the Ascent is a great choice for someone who doesn't want or need quite as much room inside (though its 3rd row is definitely more comfortable than the Pilot's 3rd row!) and is a great choice for someone who likes the feel of smaller cars. The Pilot feels every bit as big as it is, and the Subaru feels and drives like a CR-V sized vehicle compared to the Pilot. I like the relaxed nature of the Pilot, but I also came to enjoy how tossable and "flickable" the Ascent was.

We definitely got out of it at the right time. Values for recalled Ascents are relatively low right now (justifiably) and we'd never have gotten close to what we did get for it if we tried to trade it now. And we're very pleased with our Pilot so far.