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heads coming off

8705 Views 128 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  undivide
and here we go...
this is a work in progress to replace the head gaskets.
before I purchase any replacement parts I'm going to get both heads off and do a visual inspection of all critical areas then drop the heads off at a shop for pressure testing, cleaning, and resurfacing. it is so difficult to find the time and motivation to get out in the garage in 30 degree weather with 30 mph winds and lock myself in there and turn ice cold wrenches with minimal lighting.

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That is a good question. I am not an expert mechanic by any means, but I love to troubleshoot and learn. I wonder if this type of test would yield any results?

HONDA PILOT STUMBLING IDLE RANDOM MISFIRE DIAGNOSIS & FIX

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so I never knew this and I'm pretty sure I've read this section in the Honda FSM but am just now paying attention to it.
This might be what finally gets me to purchase a true full fucntion bidirectional scan tool.

generic scan tools are only able to run a global clear command which erases not only DTCs, snapshots, freeze data, and readiness codes, but ALSO idle learn and crank pattern learn. This explains the weird clicking noise I hear whenever I would clear codes on the Pilot. I was under the hood with the intake hose removed and could clearly hear the clicking is the throttle body resetting itself.
Without necessarily doing a proper crank pattern relearn every time I "cleared codes" this is setting me up for potential false positive misfires interfering with actual issues that may also exist in the background like a potential faulty fuel pump not delivering proper pressure therefore causing a bad spray from the injectors
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Thank you for taking the time to document what you did. Appreciated by many others I'm sure.
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update: finished the valve adjustment over the weekend. not all of them actually needed readjusting but most did, especially the exhaust, all of them could fit the next size feeler outside of the upper spec. followed
slvr7 had great advice and it worked out quite well. got the gap set tight on a 9 thousandths which allowed the 8 to slight drag no issue, same on the exhaust, a tight 12 thousandths allowing the 11 a nice drag feel.
while putting back together everything I finished up with brand new OEM Honda ground straps, BOTH of them. I forgot to take pictures of them side by side but the new ones are really nice looking. Old one's weren't in terrible condition but you could tell the corrosion was starting to take its toll on them, and I am not one to wait for a catastrophic breakdown and a phone call from the wife asking how to use the roadside assistance coverage.

came home from work today and jacked the vehicle to get the front wheels up on the ramps. I didn't want to start the engine until it was time to do the relearn procedures and I needed to replace both lower cat gaskets.
this was an interesting task. ahead of time I had ordered 2 gaskets AND 6 locking nuts, recommended replacing from FSM, and some of the old ones got mangled from the impact gun.
prior to removal I had to, 1) remove the subframe stiffener support, 4 bolts easy to remove w/ 14mm socket, and 2) remove the bracket that holds the rubber isolator attached to the exhaust in the same area held in by 2 small bolts removed with 12mm socket. PB blaster is your friend in this area, spray and let soak at least 5 minutes everything!

hammer and mini pry bar got the old gaskets out one in pretty full form, the other came out in chunks and pieces. had to clean out the groove and clean the mating surfaces w/ the die grinder wire wheel attachment. push in new gasket and tighten up NEW nuts in clockwise circular pattern starting at the single stud then going to the dual studs opposite, 40 ftlb torque.
re-install the exhaust bracket (just a little tight, not super torque) and subframe crossmember (same 40ftlb as the exhaust nuts)

once this was all done I grabbed the keys and proceeded with the idle relearn. FSM says 3,000 rpm until engine coolant is up to temp (194 *F) or rad fan kicks on. well neither of these are happening because it is winter time so I let it hit 180 then followed the 5 minute idle period with throttle closed. (page 11-359 FSM)
after this I took it out for a test drive to do the manual crack pattern re-learn (page 11-5 FSM)
you're basically running the engine in 2nd gear on the shifter using engine braking to slow down the vehicle from 2500 rpm to 1000 rpm AND 5000 rpm to 3000 rpm, both of these several times in not particular order!
I didn't think I would run into so many people so late at night but I managed to find some stretches of back road where I could safely accomplish this. Please note that slowing down from 2500 to 1000 will bring you to below the speed limit on most roads and getting up to 5000 rpm in 2nd gear will get you going pretty fast for some roads so best find a road where the speed limit is around 45 to 50 mph and traffic is pretty light or also has a shoulder to pull off on while you're decelerating with closed throttle.

drove back home in regular mode and re-checked the OBD with this new lame scanner I got that doesn't do much anything special that my old cheap bluetooth plugin did. I was hopeful it would do the crank pattern learn procedure for me but no, and it doesn't even have an active misfire counter! It does let me graph some stuff which is kind of useful. I am going to return it and save up for a better scan tool. if this 5610 model is innova's best then that is pretty sad.

I am not ready to call success yet again on this but no far no misfires and no engine lights. the vehicle hasn't been driven enough yet to flag all the systems green to go but I will keep tabs on that.
good news is the exhaust gaskets did fix the annoying ticking noise I was hearing while at standstill but would go away at speed. ANY time ANY exhaust sealing surface is separated it is imperative that a new gasket is used.
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also going to return the scan tool I purchased recently, the Innova 5610. it's supposedly their top tier full feature packed scan tool, yet it seems to do absolutely nothing extra special that my little $15 rinky dinky generic OBD2 bluetooth link does except probably allowing the DTCs to be cleared without fully resetting the PCM.
to be fair I have only plugged this into my 2013 and 2007 Pilots which receive completely different sets of live data stream but I can't even monitor individual cylinder misfire events with this!

I will probably look into getting an autel ap200 because I want to have something a little more professional than "torque" and "obd fusion" which are the only half decent apps I've been able to find that are not propriety linked.
might even save up for a $500+ autel. I considered the xtool devices but I feel like all the reviews are just paid off given free units for testing.
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I'd be interested in knowing, once you put it through its paces, what the Autel AP200 can do above and beyond my Foxwell NT630 Plus, to see if it might be worth it to upgrade.

The only foxwell I am considering is the NT510 elite for Honda.
Honda Acura All Systems All Maintenance Service Bidirectional Diagnostic Scan Tool FOXWELL NT510 Elite OBD2 Scanner Automotive Code Reader ABS Bleed SRS Airbag SAS TPMS TPS EPB Oil Reset CKP Relearn https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08B5RMFBG?ref_=cm_sw_r_apann_dp_FXYETWJRRRG05N95S9YT
Nice tool. It does TPMS sensors, which I would have found handy. It also (maybe) does key (Immobilizer chip?) programming for certain vehicles (check with them, they say), and if it does for our 1st gen Pilots, it would be totally worth it. It would make replacing or adding new keys, including flip keys, a breeze, without needing to transplant your original immobilizer chip. Just program the new one with this tool.

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I am recently going down the scanner rabbit hole. Almost put down $515 on a Maxipro MP808S new from local classifieds, but the guy kept leaving me in the dark, so I took it as a sign and moved on. I spent so much time finding a best bang for your buck system, and found they are all hit or miss. Even though most of the vehicles I work on are Honda/Acura, I also work on Toyota and Nissan until I can talk my sisters into switching over. I have gone this long without needing nothing more then a simple code reader I got years ago from walmart, but I have recently been getting into more of the tech side compared to the mechanic side, and want to know what exactly is going on compared to just assuming all is good.
It does seem too many reviews are paid, or too little time with the device as in right out of the box reviews, and they keep finding things wrong. The one thing that turned me off to all, but Innova is they are all out of country companies mostly China, but India too. At least the main ones I was looking at. Foxwell, Xtool, Launch, and Autel. The support is all overseas and basically only there to screw you over. Such as collecting your personal data, and connecting to your computer, and also not providing good support. Innova isn't that great support wise either, but at least they are local to the United States.
I'm looking at a used Innova 3040 if they will ever reply back to me for $60 I'm hoping to talk them down so I can give it a test drive. Doesn't support the bi-directional, but I'm more interested in live data at the moment.
What do you guys think of this tool?
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Wow, you're getting up there into Scotty "fancy scan tool" territory.
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If you can score it for 60 bucks, nice, and let us know how well all its features work.
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Wow, you're getting up there into Scotty "fancy scan tool" territory. View attachment 166205



If you can score it for 60 bucks, nice, and let us know how well all its features work.
Unfortunately the one I might get here soon is this one. Which is better then a reader, but doesn't even touch a d7 as far as capability. At least I will be able to have live data and graphs. Albeit dumbed down from a d7, but way cheaper.
This is what it says the Innova 5610 covers on my 05 Pilot. Which is what Undivide has.
Does anyone see the pictures? lol. They limited 20 pics, so I split it up, and now they don't show. SMH.



















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Well if anyone is interested the Innova 7111 is just a tablet form of 5610, except 5610 can read obd1, and if the icons on their website are correct, 5610 can read transmission temperature, but 7111 doesn't. Looking like based on what Undivide has experienced, and what I'm seeing comparison wise, Innova 7111 is off the table as a capable scanner solution. Don't throw your money away on this one. The only benefit I can see is if you want some feature, and can live without others, and want to take care of free updates for life. Compared to any of the others that cost hundreds of dollars outside of their free few years of updates. So, there is a gamble there if updates make it more capable system, you could get more functions in the future, but right now, not worth it.
Does anyone see the pictures? lol. They limited 20 pics, so I split it up, and now they don't show. SMH.
No can see.🙈



I'm still unable to confirm just by their description whether the Foxwell NT510 Elite can program 1st gen Pilot immobilizer chips. It does do TPMS sensors, though, which my cheaper Foxwell NT630 Plus does. However, the NT510 Elite comes with only one car model free, and any additional ones cost $60-$80 apiece, whereas my NT630 Plus comes with more than car models than you'll ever need, all for free.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32847853626.html




🦄 My unicorn would be a scan tool under $200 which, for a 1st gen Pilot, does...
  • general OBD and vehicle-specific OBD functions (read, clear codes, etc.)
  • SAS
  • TPMS
  • reset pesky VSA light
  • program immobilizer chips
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I came across this tool in my journey.
Xtool PS701 Pro
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Nevermind the link below is pretty much useless.
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I came across this tool in my journey.
Xtool PS701 Pro
Coverage Checker

Interesting, but no TPMS and no immobilizer chip programming, so let me know if you find anything else that does that while you're digging around down there in that fascinating rabbit hole. :)