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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,

This is a warning for the moment until I have more information. The swap was performed but the main worry I want to warn people of it the camber in the front. It seems a bit negative at the moment and with no adjustment possible, I want to warn people until I get it on the alignment rack.

Previously I had the Truxxx 2" lift kit, drove nice but since I had blown front struts I figured I would try to do the Passport struts all around. For some reason, it provided an additional 1.5" of lift in the front. With the vehicle on the strut itself it seems to be about a 1.5" lift over the Pilot struts so Honda must have done more to the Passport than just longer struts. I was not expecting this amount of lift.

Either way, I will update this when I have more information.

Vehicle on Passport struts with 2" front spacer and 1.75" rear spacer. Bad vibration due to what appears to be that the shop damaged the axles. They pryed on them to get struts in rather than remove the knuckle. Now it is getting two new axles.

144976


Vehicle sitting on the Passport strut and Passport rear shock w/1.75" rear spacer installed

144977
 

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Hey, did you also replace coils from Passport? I thought Honda had different spring rate and taller coils.
 

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2019 Pilot EX-L AWD, 265-60-18 Defender LTX M/S
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Keep the place updated please. Part #'s and any information with alignments etc would be great. Hopefully shop gets you fixed back soon.
 

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May I ask what happened to your headlights? Did they already fade or did you do something to them? I would be pissed if my headlights started to fade after only 5 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sorry for not updating this much. For now, the Pilot is still on the front Passport struts as pictured in the first post. The shop tried one axle at a time, they ended up messing both up. They charged me for only one axle, no labor. Bad situation but I have to say, it is probably the most fair outcome. This is why I hate letting people work on my cars when I am capable, just no time now a days.

I contacted Truxxx and they are going to send me spacers 0.25" spacers so that I can bring it back up to original 34" floor to fender height like it was with the Pilot strut w/2" lift kit. They are also sending me an extra in case I want to try 34.25" if I have enough threads to do them, will be close.

I have to say, through this all, Truxxx and Traxda had such great customer service. Both were willing to make me spacers but since I had the Truxxx kit on, I went with them for the spacers.

Hey, did you also replace coils from Passport? I thought Honda had different spring rate and taller coils.
I ordered every part from the 2019 Honda Passport Touring/Elite to build the struts. I have not yet had the time to take apart the Pilot struts to compare springs and such to the Passport ones, but the thickness is the same.

May I ask what happened to your headlights? Did they already fade or did you do something to them? I would be pissed if my headlights started to fade after only 5 years.
Man, they are so bad. I lived a mile from the ocean the first 3yrs or so of ownership. I think the salt water in the air is what did it. Been meaning to try to "restore" them a bit.
 

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Sorry for not updating this much. For now, the Pilot is still on the front Passport struts as pictured in the first post. The shop tried one axle at a time, they ended up messing both up. They charged me for only one axle, no labor. Bad situation but I have to say, it is probably the most fair outcome. This is why I hate letting people work on my cars when I am capable, just no time now a days.

I contacted Truxxx and they are going to send me spacers 0.25" spacers so that I can bring it back up to original 34" floor to fender height like it was with the Pilot strut w/2" lift kit. They are also sending me an extra in case I want to try 34.25" if I have enough threads to do them, will be close.

I have to say, through this all, Truxxx and Traxda had such great customer service. Both were willing to make me spacers but since I had the Truxxx kit on, I went with them for the spacers.



I ordered every part from the 2019 Honda Passport Touring/Elite to build the struts. I have not yet had the time to take apart the Pilot struts to compare springs and such to the Passport ones, but the thickness is the same.



Man, they are so bad. I lived a mile from the ocean the first 3yrs or so of ownership. I think the salt water in the air is what did it. Been meaning to try to "restore" them a bit.
I'm hoping they don't go bad that fast for everybody... This is the second gen 3 Pilot I've seen with hazy headlights and it's starting to concern me😬.
 

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Sorry for not updating this much. For now, the Pilot is still on the front Passport struts as pictured in the first post.
Hi - just found you on IG & here you are, too!
My '19 touring pilot has bad suspension, sagging & sloppiness. I've been wondering if the PP coilovers will work, and here you are, and you've done it!

There's several of us on FB 3rd gen discussion group right now, wondering why there aren't any aftermarket/replacement/improved systems. Altho there seem to be ways to lower, we don't all want lowered.

Do you think the PP setup will still work w/o the lift kit, or maybe easier w/o the lift?
TIA! Terry, aka silverwolfe, silverywolfe on IG (just started there)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi - just found you on IG & here you are, too!
My '19 touring pilot has bad suspension, sagging & sloppiness. I've been wondering if the PP coilovers will work, and here you are, and you've done it!

There's several of us on FB 3rd gen discussion group right now, wondering why there aren't any aftermarket/replacement/improved systems. Altho there seem to be ways to lower, we don't all want lowered.

Do you think the PP setup will still work w/o the lift kit, or maybe easier w/o the lift?
TIA! Terry, aka silverwolfe, silverywolfe on IG (just started there)
Small world for Pilot owners haha. Man, before trying the swap I spent way too many hours searching and calling companies asking if this was even on their radar. I think we are just out of luck because so many people underestimate what the Pilot/Passport can do. I even asked about springs from companies like H&R, Eibach, etc. No luck.

So, the Passport front strut assembly, I used the 2019 Touring AWD part numbers lifted the front about 1.5" from stock. I figure that because my Pilot struts with 2" Truxxx lift kit sat 0.5" taller than currently with only the PP strut assembly. Truxxx is going to send me a 0.5" spacer to try to get the fender to floor gap back to 34". At 33.5" right now with my Nitto 265/60/18 Ridgegrapplers.

The rear with PP shock/spring assemblies sits at a 34.5" floor to fender WITH the Truxxx 1.75" lift spacers. So, the PP shock/spring in the rear only provided about 0.5" lift over the Pilot ones but for whatever reason, the front end lifted WAY more than planned which is why I needed to remove the 2" lift kit out of the front.

In the end, I like the idea of the PP shocks because the tubes are longer which should have more fluid so hopefully they do not heat up as quickly. BUT I do not know if it is worth it. My struts were already blown out and leaking oil so whatever. I would not do this if I had good Pilot struts.

Best to get the Traxda 3.5" lift kit if you need more than 2" of lift.

Oh, Readylift has a 2.5" kit now too.

Hope this helps!
 

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Small world for Pilot owners haha. Man, before trying the swap I spent way too many hours searching and calling companies asking if this was even on their radar. I think we are just out of luck because so many people underestimate what the Pilot/Passport can do. I even asked about springs from companies like H&R, Eibach, etc. No luck.

My struts were already blown out and leaking oil so whatever. I would not do this if I had good Pilot struts.

Hope this helps!
Yes, it helped a lot. I'm not ready for a lift yet, but as in my avatar, I do have 265-60-18 tires on my '19 touring pilot w/a +38 offset. Why were yours leaking already, how many miles?

My suspension has gotten so bad, she sags, wobbles going around turns in town, sloppy on curvy roads when she used to be so tight & crisp..... I had the alignment checked at Christmas & it was way off on rt fr/lt rr. And my 7k mi new falken wildpeak at3ws are so chewed up since Sept b/c of the failling suspension! Oh, and the whining wheel bearing (lt front I suspect). 23k miles. (there's been a vibration almost since the beginning that the stealership refuses to acknowledge)

I don't want to put 'oem' back on if that's going to happen again - or, am I just the lucky one. lol. So I've been looking, and others of us, too. And what support is there for those w/lifts who need better coilovers & axles!!!

Love your new trailer (IG), such a fun way to camp w/a family! My folks took my little brother & me camping in a tent when we were 3 & 5, no fun in the rain. The next year they rented a trailer & we were hooked, they bought one right away. It was a wonderful way to have family adventures!

Thanks again, hopefully they'll be wonderful.
Terry
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Yes, it helped a lot. I'm not ready for a lift yet, but as in my avatar, I do have 265-60-18 tires on my '19 touring pilot w/a +38 offset. Why were yours leaking already, how many miles?

My suspension has gotten so bad, she sags, wobbles going around turns in town, sloppy on curvy roads when she used to be so tight & crisp..... I had the alignment checked at Christmas & it was way off on rt fr/lt rr. And my 7k mi new falken wildpeak at3ws are so chewed up since Sept b/c of the failling suspension! Oh, and the whining wheel bearing (lt front I suspect). 23k miles. (there's been a vibration almost since the beginning that the stealership refuses to acknowledge)

I don't want to put 'oem' back on if that's going to happen again - or, am I just the lucky one. lol. So I've been looking, and others of us, too. And what support is there for those w/lifts who need better coilovers & axles!!!

Love your new trailer (IG), such a fun way to camp w/a family! My folks took my little brother & me camping in a tent when we were 3 & 5, no fun in the rain. The next year they rented a trailer & we were hooked, they bought one right away. It was a wonderful way to have family adventures!

Thanks again, hopefully they'll be wonderful.
Terry
Yeah, something is up. One very important thing, make sure you have wheel eccentrics installed on your aftermarket wheels. They are a ring to mate the Pilot's hub to the wheel hub perfectly. Without them very likely you will get some vibrations. I am assuming you already had the balance checked on the wheels/tires? If you do not have those eccentrics though, I am betting that is the main issue you are feeling.

Regarding AT3W's, have you tried to rotate them? JonDZ Adventuring who I am sure you probably follow had a vibration when braking when he first put his AT3Ws on and it turned out to be that rotating his AT3W's solved the issue. He mentioned something that it can be common with those tires when they are new until they get driven or something. Perhaps DM him on IG as he is pretty good about responding.

Regarding sagging, that is an interesting one considering your miles especially. Do you have a lot of gear installed? I know when I have my tire carrier installed in the rear I loose 1/4" of lift. When I have my Pilot loaded with people in the 3 rows I would loose almost 1" in the rear. I think the springs are just soft. The PP setup I think is either stiffer OR my Pilot springs were worn out enough to make the new PP springs feel stiffer. Even though mine is a 2016, sagging shouldn't really be an issue unless they just put too soft of a spring for a soft ride despite being a 3 row SUV.

I blew one of the struts out at 83k miles and the other shortly after. I credit the washboard trails at Lake Mead which will hammer your struts in my case plus I was at 83k miles or so at the time.

I can tell you that with the Truxxx 2" lift the Pilot drove as good as OEM. So good Honda should have released their own version.

Once I get my Pilot dialed back in 100% I will have a Traxda 2" lift kit for sale. Hit me up on IG, I will give you a smokin deal on it.

If I were to do this all again, just to keep it simple I think the Pilot front struts w/2" lift kit and PP rear shock/springs with the 1.75" lift spacer I have would be sweet. In the end, I will accomplish the same once I get that 0.5" spacer in the front, I just hope camber does not get wacky. If it does, I will admit defeat in the front and get Pilot struts and put the 2" spacer in the front. I love the rear as it is right now though.

Edit:
Oh and thanks about the trailer! It is so much fun, I hope my boys remember the memories we make with it. It really is such great family time when we are out with that thing! The Pilot tows it GREAT when there is no wind lol. When it is windy out here in the Vegas/Utah/AZ areas (25-35mph gust) it can be interesting lol but at 55mph it is very safe. Last time coming back with a 30mph head wind with a slight incline I got 8mpg going between 55-60mph. Last trip had zero wind and the gauge was showing 13mpg so in reality it was probably 11.8mpg or so. Not too bad considering an f250 rental would get 14mpg with our smaller Nobo 10.6 (traded that one in).
 

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Yeah, something is up
Yep, hub centric rings from the beginning. Wheels, rings, hubs, all are round, no problems. And yes, this set of wildpeaks were easily perfectly balanced, I was very pleased. Because I'm suspicious of something wrong, tire guy & I are watching them and he rotated them about 3k mi, they needed a bit more balancing, hmmm. Then aligned the rig w/a specialist, and it was offffff - he commented on it, wondered why.... I asked if suspension could cause it, yep. Then we rebalanced at a little over 6k, omg, horrid - almost couldn't balance 2 of them. He had me drive it w/the worst one w/no weights for a week (I lasted 50 miles) - then it balanced, but not easily. Something is totally off....

No heavy gear in the back, no 3rd row use, no heavy hauling. Just something not right. Dealer has been worthless, has treated me rudely......

I have to run, will finish later....

And yes, your boys will remember your adventures forever - my brother & I have fun remembering our many trips in the trailers! It's encouraging to hear about towing, that was an original hope w/mine.
 

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Love your build, man! I just got a 2016 elite and I'm hoping to do a similar build to yours. Just followed your instagram page, too. Excited to see your build progress :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yep, hub centric rings from the beginning. Wheels, rings, hubs, all are round, no problems. And yes, this set of wildpeaks were easily perfectly balanced, I was very pleased. Because I'm suspicious of something wrong, tire guy & I are watching them and he rotated them about 3k mi, they needed a bit more balancing, hmmm. Then aligned the rig w/a specialist, and it was offffff - he commented on it, wondered why.... I asked if suspension could cause it, yep. Then we rebalanced at a little over 6k, omg, horrid - almost couldn't balance 2 of them. He had me drive it w/the worst one w/no weights for a week (I lasted 50 miles) - then it balanced, but not easily. Something is totally off....

No heavy gear in the back, no 3rd row use, no heavy hauling. Just something not right. Dealer has been worthless, has treated me rudely......

I have to run, will finish later....

And yes, your boys will remember your adventures forever - my brother & I have fun remembering our many trips in the trailers! It's encouraging to hear about towing, that was an original hope w/mine.
I am wondering if there is an issue with their balancing machine which in turn is not balancing correctly or the tire is defective. I used to be an auto tech and started way back when doing tires. First step on a car like this since you have the rings installed would be to take the tire off the rim and see if that is balanced (should be SUPER close to balanced if not perfect). Then put the tire back on and see what happens. If they have a hard time balancing I have seen guys break the bead on the tire (break the seal) and spin the tire on the wheel 90-180 degrees, then air it back up and rebalance. If that does not fix it, I would say the tires are defective.

When I would balance tires on a rotate and balance, it was not uncommon to get 1-2 tires that needed no balance adjustments and the other two wouldn't be too far off. Having the balance change wildly like you described makes me think the tires are off or the tire shop has a bad balancer.

I would consider contacting Falken and explaining what you have going on to see what they say. Have your tire's DOT numbers handy as they are basically the tires serial number. Maybe they recorded a bad batch or something.

It is weird because I have never heard of anything like that, especially when you do not even have a lift on yours. I am not thinking it is an axle or anything because balancing the tires seemed to correct the issue at some point but it sounds like it got worse.

Hum, if you have your stock wheels and tires, swapping them back on would be a quick test as well to help isolate the issue to the tires/wheels. Also, perhaps just try another Honda dealer.

I hope you can get to the bottom of it. The Pilot is an awesome vehicle.

Love your build, man! I just got a 2016 elite and I'm hoping to do a similar build to yours. Just followed your instagram page, too. Excited to see your build progress :)
Awesome, thanks! Hope you enjoy your Pilot. Be sure to follow Jondz_adventuring and awdtank (he is on here too but forgot his tag here) on IG too! Jon if you have not seen has an awesome youtube channel showing off the Passport/Pilot capabilities.
 

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I hope you can get to the bottom of it. The Pilot is an awesome vehicle.
Thanks for all the advice, sounds much like what we've done/are doing. The tires were beautifully balanced at the beginning, I was very impressed, I don't think they have a quality issue.

The fellow I'm working with is experienced, and he lets me come back & see what's up w/the tires on the machines & we talk about what's going on & what to do next. I asked him to not unbead/spin 180* yet, since they started so beautifully - if they had been problems to start w/, we would've turned them for sure. I'm afraid the weird wear pattern if the suspension is bad is what is screwing them up & changing the balancing.

I'd like to find out how to diagnose the suspension asap. Doesn't that usually make cupping, but it looked harder to see on an a/t tire than a street tire.

I suspect since the alignment was sooo off that the specialist commented something was wrong, & when I asked if it could be suspension he said definitely, and then that the tire wear made the balancing get crazy, lead me to think suspension. Putting stock tires/rims (20s) on changes the vibration, it's faster/smaller - perhaps b/c it's a thinner tire. The pilot pulls to the right since the day I got it, something's not right.... Nothing has made the vibration get gone, in fact it's more a shudder than vibration. And I listened for the wheel bearing whine, it's still there, quieter than in summer, tho.

Oh, interestingly a transmission shop owner near my office, who also has dragsters, drove for a test drive w/me early on & said it was the suspension (he felt that the vibration changed going over bumps - things like that could be disastrous in his dragsters.)

Just drove 8 hrs today over a mtn pass to Bend & back..... ahhhh, beautiful drive, very little traffic, the road was just mine for many miles. and Stevie (my pilot) got to play in the snow at the top of the pass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for all the advice, sounds much like what we've done/are doing. The tires were beautifully balanced at the beginning, I was very impressed, I don't think they have a quality issue.

The fellow I'm working with is experienced, and he lets me come back & see what's up w/the tires on the machines & we talk about what's going on & what to do next. I asked him to not unbead/spin 180* yet, since they started so beautifully - if they had been problems to start w/, we would've turned them for sure. I'm afraid the weird wear pattern if the suspension is bad is what is screwing them up & changing the balancing.

I'd like to find out how to diagnose the suspension asap. Doesn't that usually make cupping, but it looked harder to see on an a/t tire than a street tire.

I suspect since the alignment was sooo off that the specialist commented something was wrong, & when I asked if it could be suspension he said definitely, and then that the tire wear made the balancing get crazy, lead me to think suspension. Putting stock tires/rims (20s) on changes the vibration, it's faster/smaller - perhaps b/c it's a thinner tire. The pilot pulls to the right since the day I got it, something's not right.... Nothing has made the vibration get gone, in fact it's more a shudder than vibration. And I listened for the wheel bearing whine, it's still there, quieter than in summer, tho.

Oh, interestingly a transmission shop owner near my office, who also has dragsters, drove for a test drive w/me early on & said it was the suspension (he felt that the vibration changed going over bumps - things like that could be disastrous in his dragsters.)

Just drove 8 hrs today over a mtn pass to Bend & back..... ahhhh, beautiful drive, very little traffic, the road was just mine for many miles. and Stevie (my pilot) got to play in the snow at the top of the pass.
Yeah odd that no one can figure it out. Really only so much one can recommend on a forum. I would try another dealer. Just let them know you have a vibration you can't figure out and that you have already had the tires balanced more than once as well as aligned. Hopefully you get a competent technician.

If you really have a whining noise, let them know that too. That would be another line item on a work order, not to be treated on the same line as a vibration.

Just so weird. The suspension itself is great when it all works as designed, even with a 2" lift it will drive like it was stock. Good luck and I wouldn't mind hearing what fixes it when the issue is found.
 
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