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Discussion Starter #1
Most people like having the Fog Lights to be able to turn on whenever the Park lights are on. This is not legal in all states. That explains why Honda does it the way they do.

I will give the instructions two ways.
The first explains what is done electrically for those who may want to take a different approach to getting the same results.
The second is a step by step for those who may not know as much about wiring.
All the modifications are made to the under-dash Fog Light Switch harness, which comes as part of the kit. All under-hood, and bumper instructions are un-changed.

1. (For the Electrical Geeks)
The fog light circuit uses two relays. The first is mounted under the dash per the Honda instructions. The second is mounted under the front bumper.
The under dash relay is used in series to the dash Fog Light Switch to switch power to the under bumper relay which switches power to the Fog Lights.
The under dash relay normally gets its power from the Yellow/Red wire in the Blue connector, and gets its ground from the White/Red wire tapped between the two large gray connectors. The Yellow/Red is hot whenever the headlights are on (Low/High). The White/Red is at ground only when the headlights are on Low. Therefore the relay will only be closed when the headlights are On, and on Low.
The two changes that need to be made are:
a. Provide power to the Yellow/Red wire whenever the Park lights are on.
b. Provide ground to the White/Red wire.
Both of these lines are available in the small Gray connector on the switch harness that plus into the drivers side fuse panel. The Black wire is Ground. The Red/Black wire is hot whenever the Park lights are on.
Connecting a lead from the Black wire at the small Gray connector to the White/Red wire at the large gray connector will provide the ground.
Connecting a wire from the Red/Black wire at the small Gray connector to the Yellow/Red wire at the Blue connector will provide the power.
The Blue connector and the two large Gray connectors are not used.

2. (For the rest)
Parts;
Fog Light Switch Harness
Three crimp type insulated butt wire connectors.
About 18 inches of thin automotive hookup wire.

Take the Fog Light Switch harness and un-tape the junctions between the legs.
At the junction that includes the two large connectors you will find that only one wire is tapped from them.
The White/Red wire runs from one large connector, up to the relay socket, and back to the other large connector.
Cut both of these wires where they enter each side of the harness going to the large connectors. You will not need that part of the harness.
Make sure you have enough of one the White/Red wire exposed from the rest of the harness to attach a crimp connector. Put a wire connector on the White/Red wire. You need to connect to only one of these wires, the other can be ignored.
At the other junction find the Black wire running from the Gray connector to the switch connector.
Tap this wire. One way is to carefully strip back about ½ inch of insulation. Fold the bare part in half and put it into one side of a crimp connector.
Run a new wire between these two crimp connectors to finish this part. If you want a more professional look, fish the new wire through the sleeve running between these two points.
At the junction between the legs running to the small Gray connector and the Blue connector you will find the Red/Black wire.
Tap this wire the same way you tapped the Black wire.
Cut the Yellow/Red going to the Blue connector. You will not need the Blue connector.
Attach the end of the Yellow/Red wire to the crimp connector tap on the Red/Black wire at the junction.
Re-tape the wire harness with electrical tape.
Install per the Honda instructions, ignoring the steps involving the large Gray vehicle harness connections.

Two notes on the Honda instructions.
1. You do NOT need to remove the dash end cover. It provided no needed access, and was difficult to remove.
2. You do need to remove the switch plate.
It is easily removed by prying gently at its bottom edge. It snaps out bottom first, and snaps back in top first.
 

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Very good and helpfull instructions - thank you, N_Jay.

I just modified my harness this evening, and did following:
1. Untape two junctions: one down from the switch, and one down from the relay socket.

2. Cut white/red from both large 24-pin connectors, which allowed me to pull them out and get rid of thewm so there are not making any noise under the dash.

3. Extend white/red wire from the relay socket with another piece of similar gage wire and put it through the black insulation towards the junction down from the switch. tap that extended W/R into Black from the switch (I soldered mine).

4. Then cut (just like N_Jay says) blue connector and tap R/Y into R/B from the switch.

The only differece is that I got rid of both large connectors, which made the whole harness more compact and much lighter, and I soldered my connections.

P.S.
I'm going to install PIAA fog lights, and I like to use factory Switch on the dash to retain OEM appearance.

EX-L Blue, w/ side steps, New Kenwood Exelon, all new speakers.
Waiting for PIAA fog lights, and 5-channel Amplifier.
 

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Yuri, out of curiosity, did you follow the geek instructions or rest of the world instructions?
 

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Yes and no - I did not buy Honda OEM fog lights kit.
Instead, I bought fog light switch and 2 wire harnesses, same that come w/ the kit. Relays are not available yet, so I eneded up using aftermarket relays.
I also bought PIAA 2100XT driving lights, which I plan to install into the grill.
Why I did not buy OEM lights:
I do not like original location - seems that lights can be easily damaged if someone who parked in front of you, backs up into the front bumper. Also, I think PIAA works better then OEM lights - I have them on my Volvo 850, and they work great.

I modified the harness as per N_Jay instructions yesterday (7/2/03).
Today morning I had steering wheel control adapter installed by a pro shop. I bought a relay from them, and when I asked if it's OK to use dimmer as power source to trigger the secondary relay, the owner said NO, IT MAY BURN THE DIMMWER SWITCH.
So, I ednded up resoldering the original blue connector back, but kept other part as per N_Lay.
I installed the wiring on the car today, everything works fine - I can use my driving lights w/ both High and Low beams, but not w/ parking lights alone.

I plan to install PIAA lights tomorrow.

Yuri
Pilot EX-L Havasu Blue, w/ side steps, heated seats, KENWOOD Exelon w/ all new speakers, Steering wheel radio control adapter working as of today. Comimg soon - Alpine Amplifier and a new subwoofer
 

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Yuri,

Can you post the part numbers and prices for the fog light switch and wire harnesses? TIA
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Yuri said:

. . . . . .
I modified the harness as per N_Jay instructions yesterday (7/2/03).
Today morning I had steering wheel control adapter installed by a pro shop. I bought a relay from them, and when I asked if it's OK to use dimmer as power source to trigger the secondary relay, the owner said NO, IT MAY BURN THE DIMMWER SWITCH.
So, I ednded up resoldering the original blue connector back, but kept other part as per N_Lay. . . . . .
Honda wisly puts the DIMMER circuit in the dash light return rather than the dash light suppy. All you are doing is pulling power from a fuse right off the main switch or relay (would to look to see which, but it does not matter).

In other words the hot side of the dash lights are strait 12V just like any other accessory power connection.

The lights are dimmed by retuning the power through a dimmer circuit rather than strait to ground.

The modification uses the power side, but does not change the load on the dimmercircuit at all since the relay return is ground.
 

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Re: Fog light modification to have them available whenever the Park lights are on (Park/L



Originally posted by N_Jay

Most people like having the Fog Lights to be able to turn on whenever the Park lights are on. This is not legal in all states.

[snipped]


Does anyone know CA requirements? :confused:

Thx
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Re: Re: Fog light modification to have them available whenever the Park lights are on (Park/L

sfhondapilot said:


Does anyone know CA requirements? :confused:

Thx
I think that CA has a requirement for all free thinking adults to leave the state, but I am not sure as I left 6 years ago! :2:

OK, Just kidding, I would guess that it is an ignored law, as most states rubber stamp the Federal guidelines.
Then again, CA, is a weird place where they think the know better, so maybe they are more strict.

Either way, I am very sure it is as ignored as clear tail lights, tinted front windows, tires beyond the fenders, etc, etc, etc!

P.S. Nothing I say should be considered legal advice!:eek: :eek: :eek:
 

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Re: Headlamps & Auxiliary Lamps

CA VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 24400-24411

24400. During darkness, every motor vehicle other than a
motorcycle, shall be equipped with at least two lighted headlamps,
with at least one on each side of the front of the vehicle, and,
except as to vehicles registered prior to January 1, 1930, they shall
be located directly above or in advance of the front axle of the
vehicle. The headlamps and every light source in any headlamp unit
shall be located at a height of not more than 54 inches nor less than
22 inches.

24401. Whenever any motor vehicle is parked or standing upon a
highway any headlamp that is lighted shall be dimmed or on the lower
beam.

24402. (a) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two
auxiliary driving lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less
than 16 inches nor more than 42 inches. Driving lamps are lamps
designed for supplementing the upper beam from headlamps and may not
be lighted with the lower beam.
(b) Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two
auxiliary passing lamps mounted on the front at a height of not less
than 24 inches nor more than 42 inches. Passing lamps are lamps
designed for supplementing the lower beam from headlamps and may also
be lighted with the upper beam.

24403. Any motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two
foglamps which may be used with, but shall not be used in
substitution of, headlamps. Foglamps shall be mounted on the front
at a height of not less than 12 inches nor more than 30 inches and so
aimed that when the vehicle is not loaded none of the high-intensity
portion of the light to the left of the center of the vehicle shall
at a distance of 25 feet ahead project higher than a level of four
inches below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes.

24404. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped with not to exceed two
white spotlamps, which shall not be used in substitution of
headlamps.
(b) No spotlamp shall be equipped with any lamp source exceeding
32 standard candlepower or 30 watts nor project any glaring light
into the eyes of an approaching driver.
(c) Every spotlamp shall be so directed when in use: That no
portion of the main substantially parallel beam of light will strike
the roadway to the left of the prolongation of the left side line of
the vehicle.
That the top of the beam will not strike the roadway at a distance
in excess of 300 feet from the vehicle.
(d) This section does not apply to spotlamps on authorized
emergency vehicles.
(e) No spotlamp when in use shall be directed so as to illuminate
any other moving vehicle.

24405. (a) Not more than four lamps of the following types showing
to the front of a vehicle may be lighted at any one time:
(1) Headlamps.
(2) Auxiliary driving or passing lamps.
(3) Fog lamps.
(4) Warning lamps.
(5) Spot lamps.
(6) Gaseous discharge lamps specified in Section 25258.
(b) For the purpose of this section each pair of a dual headlamp
system shall be considered as one lamp.
(c) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any authorized emergency
vehicle.

24406. Except as otherwise provided, the headlamps, or other
auxiliary driving lamps, or a combination thereof, on a motor vehicle
during darkness shall be so arranged that the driver may select at
will between distributions of light projected to different
elevations, and the lamps may, in addition, be so arranged that the
selection can be made automatically.

24407. Multiple-beam road lighting equipment shall be designed and
aimed as follows:
(a) There shall be an uppermost distribution of light, or
composite beam, so aimed and of such intensity as to reveal persons
and vehicles at a distance of at least 350 feet ahead for all
conditions of loading.
(b) There shall be a lowermost distribution of light, or composite
beam so aimed and of sufficient intensity to reveal a person or
vehicle at a distance of at least 100 feet ahead. On a straight
level road under any condition of loading none of the high intensity
portion of the beam shall be directed to strike the eyes of an
approaching driver.

24408. (a) Every new motor vehicle registered in this state after
January 1, 1940, which has multiple-beam road lighting equipment
shall be equipped with a beam indicator, which shall be lighted
whenever the uppermost distribution of light from the headlamps is in
use, and shall not otherwise be lighted.
(b) The indicator shall be so designed and located that when
lighted it will be readily visible without glare to the driver of the
vehicle so equipped. Any such lamp on the exterior of the vehicle
shall have a light source not exceeding two candlepower, and the
light shall not show to the front or sides of the vehicle.

24409. Whenever a motor vehicle is being operated during darkness,
the driver shall use a distribution of light, or composite beam,
directed high enough and of sufficient intensity to reveal persons
and vehicles at a safe distance in advance of the vehicle, subject to
the following requirements and limitations:
(a) Whenever the driver of a vehicle approaches an oncoming
vehicle within 500 feet, he shall use a distribution of light or
composite beam so aimed that the glaring rays are not projected into
the eyes of the oncoming driver.
The lowermost distribution of light specified in this article
shall be deemed to avoid glare at all times regardless of road
contour.
(b) Whenever the driver of a vehicle follows another vehicle
within 300 feet to the rear, he shall use the lowermost distribution
of light specified in this article.

24410. Headlamps arranged to provide a single distribution of light
not supplemented by auxiliary driving lamps are permitted on motor
vehicles manufactured and sold prior to September 19, 1940, in lieu
of multiple-beam road lighting equipment if the single distribution
of light complies with the following requirements and limitations:
(a) The headlamps shall be so aimed that when the vehicle is not
loaded none of the high-intensity portion of the light shall at a
distance of 25 feet ahead project higher than a level of five inches
below the level of the center of the lamp from which it comes, and in
no case higher than 42 inches above the level on which the vehicle
stands at a distance of 75 feet ahead.
(b) The intensity shall be sufficient to reveal persons and
vehicles at a distance of at least 200 feet.

24411. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a vehicle may be
equipped with not more than eight lamps for use as headlamps while
the vehicle is operated or driven off the highway. The lamps shall
be mounted at a height of not less than 16 inches from the ground, or
more than 12 inches above the top of the passenger compartment, at
any place between the front of the vehicle and a line lying on a
point 40 inches to the rear of the seat occupied by the driver, shall
be wired independently of all other lighting circuits, and, whenever
the vehicle is operated or driven upon a highway, shall be covered
or hooded with an opaque hood or cover, and turned off.
 

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Thanks for the information Samuel2003.

So, if I read this properly, during darkness, fog lights may be used but only in conjunction with headlights. During non-darkness (?), it would seem to allow the use of fog lights WITHOUT the use of parking lights.

So, if I take power directly from the fuse box and ground to chassis, I could power the fog lights independent of parking lights or low beam?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: Re: Headlamps & Auxiliary Lamps

Samuel2003 said:
CA VEHICLE CODE
SECTION 24400-24411

. . . . . .
Wow!, now is it enforced???
 

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Samuel2003 said:
Yuri,

Can you post the part numbers and prices for the fog light switch and wire harnesses? TIA
One of the harnesses pn 08V31-S9V-10030
Switch pn 08v31-s9v-11035
I can't find another harnesses' label.

If you callManchester honda (www.manhonda.com) they will find it for you.
I was told that the relays are not sold separately yet, but you can ask - the switch and wire harnesses were not available a month ago either.
 

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Kemo posted 18 pages of part numbers ... check it out!
 

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N_Jay said:


Honda wisly puts the DIMMER circuit in the dash light return rather than the dash light suppy. All you are doing is pulling power from a fuse right off the main switch or relay (would to look to see which, but it does not matter).

In other words the hot side of the dash lights are strait 12V just like any other accessory power connection.

The lights are dimmed by retuning the power through a dimmer circuit rather than strait to ground.

The modification uses the power side, but does not change the load on the dimmercircuit at all since the relay return is ground.

So, you are saying that the dimmer switch is on the negative side of the circuit?
Then, I could have left it the way it was (w/o blue connector).
I should have checked if red/black wire was dimmed before reattaching the blue connector back.
Too late now...

Thanks for your reply, N_Jay.
 

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Yuri, thanks!

SF, I haven't seen/read anything regarding using headlights or auxiliary lights during daytime hours. Next time I run into a Chippie, I'll try to remember to ask - they're the vehicle code experts...

Jay, I would phrase it like so: "it MAY be or CAN be enforced" - it would be up to the officer's/deputy's discretion. A violation of those codes, however, IS PC to stop...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Samuel2003 said:
Yuri, thanks!

SF, I haven't seen/read anything regarding using headlights or auxiliary lights during daytime hours. Next time I run into a Chippie, I'll try to remember to ask - they're the vehicle code experts...

Jay, I would phrase it like so: "it MAY be or CAN be enforced" - it would be up to the officer's/deputy's discretion. A violation of those codes, however, IS PC to stop...
OK, so when you are stopped just don't fail the attitude test!:2:

The worst you should get is a fixit ticket.

I had my fog lights hooked uip to be on with park, and tinted windows in front the whoile time I lived in the PRC (Peoples Republic of California) and never was bothered. Even got a few speeding tickets and never had the windows questioned.
 

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I have yet to do it on my Pilot, but I have an 03 Infiniti I35 and I rewired my fogs to work independantly of all other lights.

I also did this on my 1997 Nissan Altima.
 

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Greyson's Dad said:
I have yet to do it on my Pilot, but I have an 03 Infiniti I35 and I rewired my fogs to work independantly of all other lights.

I also did this on my 1997 Nissan Altima.
take pics on the DIY please!
 

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Does anyone know if the modification is the same on the 05 pilots? I know on the previous years the fog light switch was located on the leftside of the dash by the cruise switch. However, on the 05's, it's integrated with the headlights switch. (see attached). Does anyone think it would make a difference in wiring being that it's a different setup?

FYI: They still function the same as the 03 and 04. HighBeams on foglights turn off, and parking lights on fog lights turn off.

Thanks in advance!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
H0NDA said:
Does anyone know if the modification is the same on the 05 pilots? I know on the previous years the fog light switch was located on the leftside of the dash by the cruise switch. However, on the 05's, it's integrated with the headlights switch. (see attached). Does anyone think it would make a difference in wiring being that it's a different setup?

FYI: They still function the same as the 03 and 04. HighBeams on foglights turn off, and parking lights on fog lights turn off.

Thanks in advance!
There is no reason you could not do a modification that has the same results, but it may be a different modification.

It depends on how the system is wired, not where the switch is.

Just because it works the same as the earlier fog lights does NOT mean the wiring is the same.

If someone posts a schematic, I can tell you what changes are needed, however without having all the parts in front of me, I could not tell you the best way to make those changes.
 
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