[MarionP]

Hey y’all I am absolutely furious! Before buying a 2011 EX-L 4 WD last fall, I took it to the Honda dealership where I have taken my Element and Odyssey sine 2005, for an inspection prior to purchase. The service dept returned a short list of things needed a bushing in the right front, a tire issue, a few other things that they would charge over 3K to repair. The City Auto lot had these items fixed to my satisfaction.

I have emissions system and oil change codes pop up. I took it back to the shop who worked on it with the result 3 cats all went out at once. Commenters on that post said that was highly unlikely. Today a VCM code popped up and I had to pull the wheel to the left to keep it in the lane. I took it back to the dealer I’ve worked with for 16 years. They tell me the list of issues will be 9400K.

I did my due diligence to make sure I didn’t buy a piece of junk. All of a sudden the list of repairs includes 2 cats, ($2650), piston rings ($4200) VCM stability control ($475), timing belt kit ($1289), all 4 tire pressure sensors ($350), the total is $9,300. I paid 11,500 for the Pilot in Aug, 2020. Surely the 300 point inspection should have found major issues like this. The inspection could not determine whether the timing belt had been replaced and City Auto pointed to a vague item on the car fax and the shop told me they inspected it and it was reasonably new.

I‘m going to get a second opinion, of course, but I can’t put $9300 into an 11K vehicle. This is just ridiculous. I always feel like I have Sucker written on my forehead. This is why I never bought a used car, until now.

I see a long conversation happening with the service manager resulting in my getting the short end of this as well. Does anyone here see otherwise? Fix these problems and keep up maintenance or donate it and start over w a new vehicle?

Thanks!

 

[ImBroke]

How many miles are on it? Possible the bad rings killed the cats. That's a large pill to swallow, if I was paying someone to do it I'd pass. However, I would fix it myself.

 

[bustedmouse]

Another recent thread here had someone with a newer Pilot having engine problems. Took to the dealer and they quoted a bunch of fixes for a few grand. Guy got a second quote from a different dealership over the phone for about $1k less. Guy called up first dealership and they dropped the estimate to like $100 below the second's quote...just like that. Guy then went to an independent shop and they said most of the dealership stuff was not necessary and it needed a different fix all together for a few hundred...which he went with. I don't think he updated the thread since that.

Do your due diligence. It's your money. Dealerships and banks don't have large fancy facilities for no reason.

Get the OBDII codes and post here for advise. At least get a second opinion from the forum or another shop.

20 years ago my Camaro failed an emissions test. I took it to a nearby emissions shop who in short told me it was the CAT (without even looking at the car) and charged me a few hundred and said come back in an hour. An hour later my car was up on a lift with 4 guys poking around the engine. It wasn't the CAT. After several trips to this shop and several hours sitting around (after school) their answer was that I needed all new spark plugs, new injectors and a bunch of hoses replaced. It was gonna be like $1000+. My father caught wind of this craziness and went to the shop was like "did you morons even check the PCV valve?"
30 minutes later my car passed the test. Over a $10-20 part that failed that they never looked at or considered.

If it is a bunch of stuff that needs fixing, I'm sure you have a friend or a relative that would be happy to help you do some of the work for a case of beer. I think @Nail Grease likes to say start with the cheap fixes first. Better than giving the car away.

 

[Tacoma'03Pilot]

Based on your description, and since it appears that DIY isn't realistic, I suggest that you focus on collecting enough data to make your decision confidently:

1. It seems to me that cats flaming out at once seems unlikely. Let's put that one aside for a moment.
2. Bad rings in all 6 is possible, but you should have the results of a leak-down test on each cylinder that shows they're all really failed before you pay to replace them.
3. If you're wrestling with it to keep it in the lane, a stability control module might be the problem, but first you have to decide whether to keep it or not.
4. The timing belt job isn't relevant unless you decide to keep it, so put that aside altogether.
5. Tire pressure sensors are entirely irrelevant. You can buy a tire gauge for $4.00 and check them all every morning if going without them makes you nervous.

It seems to me that you need real data on the recommended ring job. A leak-down test will show which cylinders are not holding compression, if any. If all 6 turn up really bad, then yeah, it might be time to move on.

If only 1 is really bad, or any number are only kinda bad, it's driveable without the ring job. You'll need a plan to keep your cats from fouling up, but an hour on the freeway might do that for you. You can experiment with that, if you get to that point.

Bottom line - if the rings really are shot, you're done. If not, you need the stability control fixed (and it might just be a bad connection somewhere) to be driving again.

The real issue is how to get this done. Since you've been with your dealer through three vehicles, I would absolutely speak to the general manager. I think it's entirely reasonable to ask them to give you solid data that shows that the rings in all 6 cylinders are shot, and that the motor is in fact extremely worn. If they can't, then maybe it's not so bad. If they can, the obvious question is "how did this get past your inspection"? It just doesn't seem realistic that it went from "fine" to 6 bad cylinders in less than a year.

The other point to take up with the GM is that they should have told you a timing belt job was on the horizon. If you need one, you need one, but unless you've driven 20k miles since you bought it, that's a reasonable complaint. If you decide to keep the car, ask for 50% off parts and labor.

Take it a step at a time. Get the data. Once you have that, your question will answer itself.

Good luck.

 

[briantii]

I’d find a reputable independent shop and work with them. I find it unlikely that all of that magically broke at once. Also some people have had success cleaning a cat to restore it. Find someone who knows what they are doing and wants to help you out, not rip you off.

 

[plplplpl]

Absolutely get a few more opinions from well-referred and trusted shops. If your doctor told you you need to get your knees, elbows and hips replaced all at once, you might be correct in suspecting he's a few payments behind on his Maserati.

 

[MarionP]

How many miles are on it? Possible the bad rings killed the cats. That's a large pill to swallow, if I was paying someone to do it I'd pass. However, I would fix it myself.

180,000 miles. Can bad rings do that?

I’d find a reputable independent shop and work with them. I find it unlikely that all of that magically broke at once. Also some people have had success cleaning a cat to restore it. Find someone who knows what they are doing and wants to help you out, not rip you off.

Thank you. I have towed it to a shop that came highly recommended. It’s not safe to drive in the present condition.
So far this new shop has given me a quote of $5200, that would be for replacement of both of the primary catalytic converters, the oxygen sensors, spark plugs and one ignition coil.
they have not addressed the VTM-4, the VSA code or piston anything. An alignment is required and I’d like to know what caused it.

Another recent thread here had someone with a newer Pilot having engine problems. Took to the dealer and they quoted a bunch of fixes for a few grand. Guy got a second quote from a different dealership over the phone for about $1k less. Guy called up first dealership and they dropped the estimate to like $100 below the second's quote...just like that. Guy then went to an independent shop and they said most of the dealership stuff was not necessary and it needed a different fix all together for a few hundred...which he went with. I don't think he updated the thread since that.

Do your due diligence. It's your money. Dealerships and banks don't have large fancy facilities for no reason.

Get the OBDII codes and post here for advise. At least get a second opinion from the forum or another shop.

20 years ago my Camaro failed an emissions test. I took it to a nearby emissions shop who in short told me it was the CAT (without even looking at the car) and charged me a few hundred and said come back in an hour. An hour later my car was up on a lift with 4 guys poking around the engine. It wasn't the CAT. After several trips to this shop and several hours sitting around (after school) their answer was that I needed all new spark plugs, new injectors and a bunch of hoses replaced. It was gonna be like $1000+. My father caught wind of this craziness and went to the shop was like "did you morons even check the PCV valve?"
30 minutes later my car passed the test. Over a $10-20 part that failed that they never looked at or considered.

If it is a bunch of stuff that needs fixing, I'm sure you have a friend or a relative that would be happy to help you do some of the work for a case of beer. I think @Nail Grease likes to say start with the cheap fixes first. Better than giving the car away.

Thanks! Wow, I’ve been taken by so many shops, it’s ridiculous. Good thing your dad knew what it needed. I hope those guys were ashamed of themselves.
There is a bunch of stuff that needs fixing. I’m a recent widow and don‘t have any family here. I have to pay someone to do the easiest things that I just don’t have the brawn to do.
l have added the details so far from the current shop in another post. Would you read it and advise if I should put more $$ into it or start over with another used car with potentially same type of expenses.

 

[MarionP]

How many miles are on it? Possible the bad rings killed the cats. That's a large pill to swallow, if I was paying someone to do it I'd pass. However, I would fix it myself.

180,000 miles. Can bad rings do that?

I’d find a reputable independent shop and work with them. I find it unlikely that all of that magically broke at once. Also some people have had success cleaning a cat to restore it. Find someone who knows what they are doing and wants to help you out, not rip you off.

Thank you. I had towed it to a shop that came highly recommended. It’s not safe to drive in the present condition.
Current shop says $5200 for replacement of both primary cats, oxygen sensors, spark plugs and one ignition coil. They have not yet checked the alignment, stability control.

What if putting $6000 into it being comfortable that nothing is seriousply wrong, should I keep it or not put more than $1000 into it and sell it to someone who will part it out?

A friend‘s mechanic said Pilots are known for transmission probs at 200,000 miles. Have any of you heard about this? What’s the validity of that statement?

Thank you all so much!
M

 

[ImBroke]

Yes, bad rings will kill catalytic convertors. Which is why, after you pay 5200 to get all of that changed, the possibility of it happening again are high if that is the problem. The root cause needs to be identified. If it is cracked rings like the dealer said, than I would not replace the cats without changing the engine. And like you said, that didn't address the VSA light or VTM-4 code. I would like to know how the dealer figured out cracked rings without pulling the engine apart.

 

[Tacoma'03Pilot]

The root cause needs to be identified.

This is the most important bit of advice in this thread, in my opinion...

There is a bunch of stuff that needs fixing. I’m a recent widow and don‘t have any family here. I have to pay someone to do the easiest things that I just don’t have the brawn to do.

... but given your situation, doesn't seem to be a realistic outcome. I'm very sorry for your loss.

A 10-year old Honda Pilot with multiple serious, undiagnosed issues isn't a good fit for someone like you - it's a project car that someone like @ImBroke could probably resurrect because he enjoys doing that kind of thing, and because he has another vehicle to get around in.

Based on your description of yourself and your needs, you need a simple car that just runs. You did everything right to try to ensure that's what your Pilot was, but it's not working out.

If you're being told that your $5,200 would solve everything (including whatever killed the cats in the first place), then I might agree it's a good choice. As it is, I think it's good money after bad. I suggest asking the new mechanic what he would tell his own Mom to do, and taking his advice.

 

[briantii]

A friend‘s mechanic said Pilots are known for transmission probs at 200,000 miles. Have any of you heard about this? What’s the validity of that statement?

Thank you all so much!
M

The 2nd gen Pilots aren’t really known for transmission problems. Certainly no worse than any other car at 200k miles. Some of the other years have been known for trans issues, but not these.