[Brian]

The manual says your first should be at 7500 for normal use and 3750 for severe use. How many people follow the severe route and change their oil every 3750 instead of 7500?

 

[PaulV7]

Oil

I would rather change it to often than not often enough

 

[colorider]

The manual says your first should be at 7500 for normal use and 3750 for severe use. How many people follow the severe route and change their oil every 3750 instead of 7500?

Neither. I change my oil and filter in ALL my vehicles every 5,000 miles. Much easier to keep track of with a simple glance at the odometer (5,000/10,000/15,000/etc).

YMMV

rod

 

[Morris Minor]

When is First Service "Officially" Due?

Could someone remind me. My Pilot had just over 3,500 miles on the clock and hasn't had a dealer visit since the day I bought it.

Regards

 

[pjb3]

Just had ours done at 3,750 miles. When we bought it the dealer placed one of the small stickers on the windshield with 3,750 as the mileage service was due. In other words, our dealer recommends the severe schedule.

 

[N_Jay]

Took it in at 4000 miles;

Was told to come back after 5000 miles

 

[ramirami]

N-jay,

Any particular reason given to you to come back after 5000 miles?

Typically my wife drives to work in the Pilot and her commute is like 2 miles one way. Other than that we do no severe driving. However I feel safer to get oil changes at 3750, so was wondering why dealer told you that.

 

[N_Jay]

He Said:

He said Honda asked them not to do changes under 5000 miles to allow for proper engine break-in.

Guess if you met the true intent of severe use 5000 might be bit long, But how many of us actually meet the definition of "severe use"?

 

[N_Jay]

And

The dealer still puts stickers on the windshield listing 3000 miles and 3 months! Just like a 1950's chevy!

 

[MG Pilot]

You guys are living in the past. With modern engines and modern oil there is no need to change your oil every 3 or 4 thousand miles. EVEN with petro-based oil and regardless of your driving style, you can easily go 7,500 miles b/t oil changes. The "severe" schedule is to make more money for dealerships. Are Mercedes and BMW engines that much better than Honda's that they go 10-15,000 b/t oil changes??? I think not. Granted, Mercedes uses Mobil1 like I do, but still. I go 7,500 b/t oil changes with some of the best products around (see sig below) and am starting to think I should go 10,000 b/t changes. Any takers???

 

[N_Jay]

I am no 3000 mile 3 month fan.

I figure most of us can safely split the difference between the severe and standard schedules with conventional oil.
That would be 5625 or 5000 plus the time it takes to find a good day to get it done.

The 4000 mile first change request was because I was there for other work.

 

[pjb3]

MG Pilot

Your have made some valid points but I would have a hard time going past 7,500 miles. Oil may be better than in the past but modern engines put a greater demand on the oil also. Many people that extend their oil change intervals with synthetics still change the filter at the 3,750 or 5,000 mile interval. Are you willing to keep the same filter for 10,000 miles? Comparisons to Mercedes and BMW are difficult because other factors such as the capacity of the oil pan and the filter play a large role.
There are a few Toyota owners with sludge in their engines that wish they had changed more frequently than the 7,500 miles that Toyota recommended.

 

[N_Jay]

MG Pilot

Oil may be better than in the past but modern engines put a greater demand on the oil also.

This is an "old wives tale", or as close as you get in the automotive world.

Modern engines are much easier on oil, it is the oil that has changed little in the past 30 years.

1) Less Blow-by, less combustion contamination
2) Leaner burning, less fuel dilution
3) Better materials and machining, Less contamination from wear products
4) Better temperature control, less excessive heating of the oil
5) Sealed crankcase, less moisture contamination
6) Lead free gas, less heavy metal contamination

 

[L5tc]

Oil Change @ 7500

I'm going to assume that if this is what Honda recommends than this is a safe bet. Especially since all these new cars we're driving are under warranty they are liable for engine damage! So why would they even come close to having a bunch of engines go bad.

Yes - is there is an engine problem that occurs due to oil changes @ 7500 - and if you get them done at the dealer they will have a very hard time blaming the driver.

Yes - the bad oil damage would be seen down the line, out of the range of the warranty but that's a bit conspiratorial to think they'd be that devious. They print this 7500 number in every manual. The word-of-mouth numbers are the shorter durations.

my .025 cents

 

[pjb3]

This is an "old wives tale", or as close as you get in the automotive world.

Modern engines are much easier on oil, it is the oil that has changed little in the past 30 years.

1) Less Blow-by, less combustion contamination
2) Leaner burning, less fuel dilution
3) Better materials and machining, Less contamination from wear products
4) Better temperature control, less excessive heating of the oil
5) Sealed crankcase, less moisture contamination
6) Lead free gas, less heavy metal contamination

I would disagree. All of your points deal with contamination which I agree have been reduced. What about oxidation of the base stock and depletion of additives? Many modern engines have DOHC with increased bearing surfaces, tighter tolerances, higher operating temperatures, and higher specific output increasing loads on bearings.

If oil has changed little in 30 years why don't manufactures still specify a SAE class SC oil? It would seem hard to take a Group III base stock that approaches synthetic with a current additive package and say it is "little changed in 30 years".

This is a subject that has been covered on many different forums by people with far more knowledge of petroleum than me and I'm still looking for answers. If you can point me toward references dispelling this "old wives tale" I would appreciate it.

 

[N_Jay]

Fair enough

The Oil has gotten better, as have the Engines.

And the COMBINATION allows much longer oil change intervals AND extended engine life. (This is the ultimate trade off)

Yes to tighter tolerances, but that only allows the oil to work better at there is greater consitancy across the bearing surface.

No to higher temperatures, I am fairly confident that the peak temperatures of the oil that caused excesive breakdown has been greatly reduced.
The average temp may be higher, but well within the range the oil can withstand, and the excessive peaks due to short term loads and high ambiaent temps has been greatly reduced by better cooling system design.

As for the references, what about the greatly extended recommended change intervals of today's cars?
CR-V 10,000 miles with 5W20 conventional as one example, and Porsche 15,000 mile with synthetic as another.

 

[Spartanman]

I placed my Pilot on the 4 mo or 5000 mile maintenance program. It was a compromise between my sometimes "severe", sometimes "normal" driving.

The service dept at the dealership is also divided on this. I took the Pilot in for its second oil change in 8 months, yesterday. The service tech said that I needed to come in more often. Supposedly "severe" conditions in this part of Chicago.... "Strange", I said, "your manager advised me to come in under the "normal" maintenance schedule. Perhaps you guys ought to have a meeting and make your advice more consistent.".

 

[AlH]

1) Less Blow-by, less combustion contamination
2) Leaner burning, less fuel dilution
3) Better materials and machining, Less contamination from wear products
4) Better temperature control, less excessive heating of the oil
5) Sealed crankcase, less moisture contamination
6) Lead free gas, less heavy metal contamination

Agree on some, not on others. Higher HP per CC can make it tougher on oil. Also many engines rev much higher than the "old" days.

Name one engine, with a sealed crankcase.
Perhaps you meant that they are no longer vented to the atmosphere, but they aren't sealed. High pressures would build up causing a loss of efficiency. In fact, some race engines run vacuum pumps on the crankcase to reduce losses.

 

[N_Jay]

Name one engine, with a sealed crankcase.
Perhaps you meant that they are no longer vented to the atmosphere, but they aren't sealed. .

OK, OK, you got me. Not sealed completly, but well sealed, and typically using intake manafold vacume to maintain a slight negative pressure.

Some engines event trip the Check Engine light if the oil filler is loose.

As for the higher HP per CC, yes that do, but they only make that HP when it is asked for.
With improvments in gearing, aerodynamics, and other periferal losses they make less HP and are under less stress most of the time.

 

[foxhallow]

I had my first oil change/tire rotation at about 6,000 miles. the Pilot was in to have the steering wheel straightened at about 3,500 miles, and the dealer suggested I wait on the oil change. They said the break in oil is different, and it's good to leave it in until 7,500 miles unless it's been exposed to extremely dusty conditions. I took their word for it.