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Hi all, Two weeks ago I purchased a 2017 ex-l with 50,000 on it. My first suv, as I usually own/drive five speed four bangers. I would say that it seems adequately powered but could use just a few more horses. My question is that when driving I would say that between 40-65 isn’t that eventful. However, 70 and over it’s a rocket. Do you guys drive these that fast? It doesn’t seem happy unless it’s rolling like it’s on fire. It’s a lot of weight and since I’m used to small cars it feels unnatural to drive that fast considering the size/weight/rollover possibility. This especially considering the mechanical setup of the all wheel drive. A lot of metal spinning. Even the shifts are super clean under a heavier load. Thoughts?
 

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I have a 2017 model with the 9-speed transmission and it feels quick throughout the range, if you gun it. The shorter gears allow for a slightly better leverage of the engine’s power band.

It most definitely is heavy, but not overly heavy compared to other SUVs. I can feel the impact on performance when I have four people in the car, and even having just one passenger vs. none is slightly noticeable during spirited takeoffs.


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Sounds like you’re enjoying that VTEC moment. Not enough grunt down low to make a great tow vehicle just adequate.
 

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Hi all, Two weeks ago I purchased a 2017 ex-l with 50,000 on it. My first suv, as I usually own/drive five speed four bangers. I would say that it seems adequately powered but could use just a few more horses. My question is that when driving I would say that between 40-65 isn’t that eventful. However, 70 and over it’s a rocket. Do you guys drive these that fast? It doesn’t seem happy unless it’s rolling like it’s on fire. It’s a lot of weight and since I’m used to small cars it feels unnatural to drive that fast considering the size/weight/rollover possibility. This especially considering the mechanical setup of the all wheel drive. A lot of metal spinning. Even the shifts are super clean under a heavier load. Thoughts?
It's exactly as you've stated. The engine seems to be governed to improve fuel economy. For that reason my econ button stays off.
I would also caution you on a known issue on these, the VCM, most noticeable at lower speeds. The VCM operation can create a shudder condition in the transmission. I recommend using a device to disable it. I use S-VCM. This keeps the engine running on all 6 cylinders. If you plan on using Honda DW-1 ATF, change this non full synthetic fluid often. An eradic behaving rpm gauge while in cruise is a symtom. This can lead to transmission failure if not solved.
IMO, The handling on this 4200lb vehicle is hampered by light weight touring tires. It's especially noticeable at high speed. My OE Bridgestone Dueler Sports could not handle a 70mph curve without rolling over on the sidewalls. I've recently had installed a set of Sumitomo HTR AS P02 High Performance tires that I can safely inflate to 38psi cold. I can actually hold a curve without freeking out. This is a heavier tire with a higher max inflation value. It will take away some of your fuel economy, But I feel much safer on the interstate at 75mph.
 

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IMO, The handling on this 4200lb vehicle is hampered by light weight touring tires. It's especially noticeable at high speed. My OE Bridgestone Dueler Sports could not handle a 70mph curve without rolling over on the sidewalls. I've recently had installed a set of Sumitomo HTR AS P02 High Performance tires that I can safely inflate to 38psi cold. I can actually hold a curve without freeking out. This is a heavier tire with a higher max inflation value. It will take away some of your fuel economy, But I feel much safer on the interstate at 75mph.
Why can't the OE Bridgestone tires be "safely inflated to 38psi cold"? They have a maximum rating of 44 psi.

According to a comparison test by Tire Rack, "Dueler H/P Sport AS had the best overall handling with direct steering response and a reassuring and connected feel in the steering wheel as the vehicle moved in direct proportion to driver inputs." Also, "On the track in dry conditions the Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS brought its quick steering response found on the road, and also felt the most predictable and stable during the abrupt maneuvers of our course. In wet conditions the rank order was the same, but the differences between the tires was more apparent. The Dueler H/P Sport AS again led the group by a noticeable margin, displaying its characteristic direct steering response and very good overall traction." In summary "The Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS delivers sporty handling along with very good dry and wet traction."

In another TireRack comparison test, the Sumitomo HTR A/S P02 came in third behind the Kumho Ecsta PA31 and the Firestone Firehawk AS. The summary comment was that "Sumitomo's HTR A/S P02 presented itself well, but didn't demonstrate any significantly positive or negative standout traits."
 

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Why can't the OE Bridgestone tires be "safely inflated to 38psi cold"? They have a maximum rating of 44 psi.
Theoretically, if you inflate this light weight tire to 38psi cold, your tire will not pass the chalk test after they heat up. If you want your tire pressure over 40psi hot safely with good traction, you will need a tire with a max psi rating of 50,51.
According to a comparison test by Tire Rack, "Dueler H/P Sport AS had the best overall handling with direct steering response and a reassuring and connected feel in the steering wheel as the vehicle moved in direct proportion to driver inputs." Also, "On the track in dry conditions the Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS brought its quick steering response found on the road, and also felt the most predictable and stable during the abrupt maneuvers of our course. In wet conditions the rank order was the same, but the differences between the tires was more apparent. The Dueler H/P Sport AS again led the group by a noticeable margin, displaying its characteristic direct steering response and very good overall traction." In summary "The Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS delivers sporty handling along with very good dry and wet traction."
The Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS that was tested was a 255/55R18 109V XL High Performance rated tire put on a 2012 Porsche Cayenne. That's a much higher quality tire than the 245/60R18 105H SL Touring version put on the Honda Pilot. Apples and Oranges.

In another TireRack comparison test, the Sumitomo HTR A/S P02 came in third behind the Kumho Ecsta PA31 and the Firestone Firehawk AS. The summary comment was that "Sumitomo's HTR A/S P02 presented itself well, but didn't demonstrate any significantly positive or negative standout traits."
Regardless of the Tirerack test "opinion"..., what do consumers say?
Kumho Ecsta PA31
Ranked 4th in the category and only 5.8 would buy again.
Firestone Firehawk AS
Ranked 6th in the category and only 5.5 would buy again.

Sumitomo HTR AS P02
Ranked 3rd in the category and 7.3 would buy again.
Not bad for a tire that you can buy for around $100.
Added: The Bridgestone Dueler HP Sport AS touring tire put on our 18in rim Pilots cost $228. It is ranked 24 out of 30 and only 3.1 would buy again.
 

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Theoretically, if you inflate this light weight tire to 38psi cold, your tire will not pass the chalk test after they heat up. If you want your tire pressure over 40psi hot safely with good traction, you will need a tire with a max psi rating of 50,51.

The Bridgestone Dueler H/P Sport AS that was tested was a 255/55R18 109V XL High Performance rated tire put on a 2012 Porsche Cayenne. That's a much higher quality tire than the 245/60R18 105H SL Touring version put on the Honda Pilot. Apples and Oranges.


Regardless of the Tirerack test "opinion"..., what do consumers say?
Kumho Ecsta PA31
Ranked 4th in the category and only 5.8 would buy again.
Firestone Firehawk AS
Ranked 6th in the category and only 5.5 would buy again.
Sumitomo HTR AS P02
Ranked 3rd in the category and 7.3 would buy again.
Not bad for a tire that you can buy for around $100.
I go on Tire Rack and select the tire and put in the car I have in the reviews. Because obviously the type of car makes a huge difference. The Pilot rides a fine line-as does the Crosstour. Because they aren't heavy duty vehicles, but they aren't necessarily lightweight either. The tire that Honda put on these cars from the factory is different than what is mass produced (at least that is what I've read). So theoretically you could buy the same tire off of TireRack and have completely different experience than you did with the tires that came on your Pilot originally.

Either way, glad you found a tire that works for you. It certainly is cheap. Tires like oil are often a very divisive topic because brand loyalties and other preferences come out. One person has no problem spending $200/tire and the other guy can't stomach spending more than $130/tire. Plus everyone has different climates so it's obviously not a one size fits all solution. Although I think everyone can agree that the Goodyear Integrity tires that came standard on the 1st generation Pilots were universally hated by all.
 

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Regardless of the Tirerack test "opinion"..., what do consumers say?
The TireRack test "opinions", as you call them, include the results of controlled and instrumented comparative testing of new tires.
The consumer "opinions" posted on their site are no more than that, and are based on purely subjective comparisons of one set of new tires versus one set of old worn-out tires.

You keep citing the ability to take curves at 70 mph as an important criteria for selecting tires.
70 mph is at or above the speed limit in most states.
 

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The TireRack test "opinions", as you call them, include the results of controlled and instrumented comparative testing of new tires.
The consumer "opinions" posted on their site are no more than that, and are based on purely subjective comparisons of one set of new tires versus one set of old worn-out tires.
It's already proven that you can't believe everything you read. Truly misleading to publish test results based on a different quality tire made for a different category. The test result tire isn't even made anymore. I'll trust the majority of consumers. Especially the "Would Buy Again" results.

You keep citing the ability to take curves at 70 mph as an important criteria for selecting tires.
70 mph is at or above the speed limit in most states.
If a vehicle can hold a line in a 70mph curve, how much more so in a slower curve. I don't want jelly tires when an evasive maneuver is neccesary.
The High Performance tire is much safer when the vehicle is loaded or towing.
Again, these are my personal opinions and preferences. Some people like a cushy ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It's exactly as you've stated. The engine seems to be governed to improve fuel economy. For that reason my econ button stays off.
I would also caution you on a known issue on these, the VCM, most noticeable at lower speeds. The VCM operation can create a shudder condition in the transmission. I recommend using a device to disable it. I use S-VCM. This keeps the engine running on all 6 cylinders. If you plan on using Honda DW-1 ATF, change this non full synthetic fluid often. An eradic behaving rpm gauge while in cruise is a symtom. This can lead to transmission failure if not solved.
IMO, The handling on this 4200lb vehicle is hampered by light weight touring tires. It's especially noticeable at high speed. My OE Bridgestone Dueler Sports could not handle a 70mph curve without rolling over on the sidewalls. I've recently had installed a set of Sumitomo HTR AS P02 High Performance tires that I can safely inflate to 38psi cold. I can actually hold a curve without freeking out. This is a heavier tire with a higher max inflation value. It will take away some of your fuel economy, But I feel much safer on the interstate at 75mph.
Thank you for your detailed response! Two things I would like to add. One, I can’t believe how stupid I am for forgetting about the vcm on Honda’s. That irritates me to no end to have cylinders just banging around in there doing nothing. The logic is not lost on me though, specifically from the marketing perspective. In “car wars” a reduction in mpg by any means can boost sales for those with that as a major buying point. And yes, the start/stop thing blows my mind as well. In traffic everyone’s car in constantly starting up. See you at the repair shop! Again here, clever marketing but truly useless. Number two, I am going on a road trip so I put the truck under a load to sort it out. 80 degree day, 80 mph, gentle elevation increase/decrease (mountain), for two hours. On the way home, my girl says to me, “Do you feel that?” I did but was in denial about it. The tach was doing the bachata all over the 1500-2500 range. This is how I found this site, to solve that. I did the tsb recommendation of trans flush and fill and it seemed to solve albeit probably temporarily. I have had my hands in some trans fluid in my life, and this stuff was absolutely fried. As one other response wrote, I agree the engines are pretty bulletproof. I don’t share the same feeling on the transmissions. My mother had an odyssey for years and the trans never thrilled me.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The TireRack test "opinions", as you call them, include the results of controlled and instrumented comparative testing of new tires.
The consumer "opinions" posted on their site are no more than that, and are based on purely subjective comparisons of one set of new tires versus one set of old worn-out tires.

You keep citing the ability to take curves at 70 mph as an important criteria for selecting tires.
70 mph is at or above the speed limit in most states.
I can’t hang with you guys on the tire discussion. I won’t claim knowledge on something I haven’t researched and aside from the fact that I know what works well for my driving style I am limited. My idea for adding some stability is something I always do to my cars. I’ll admit first hand that it is a bit shade tree mechanic of me, but it seems to work. I want to increase the wheelbase/contact patch etc. with a wider rim and tire. I see that the current rims are 8 in. and I can get aftermarket rims that are 9.5 in. Now, someone might say to me,”That’s not much” and I would agree. However, 1.5 in. a side translates to 3.0 in total. Again here, not much but every little bit helps. On my mazda, (it’s flush, I don’t to tilt or poke) the wider stance allows for enough stability in the turns and I don’t get hop from road imperfections because I haven’t tampered with the absorption properties of the original suspension that was adequately designed by engineers. And I don’t brag, but I very much enjoy curves and utilize the 5 speed as hard as I can without be wreckless/dangerous to myself or others. Do you guys think that I may get some added rigidity(and I don’t mean alot here) from kicking out and flushing up the rims/tires as I have done on other car models?
 

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I can’t hang with you guys on the tire discussion. I won’t claim knowledge on something I haven’t researched and aside from the fact that I know what works well for my driving style I am limited. My idea for adding some stability is something I always do to my cars. I’ll admit first hand that it is a bit shade tree mechanic of me, but it seems to work. I want to increase the wheelbase/contact patch etc. with a wider rim and tire. I see that the current rims are 8 in. and I can get aftermarket rims that are 9.5 in. Now, someone might say to me,”That’s not much” and I would agree. However, 1.5 in. a side translates to 3.0 in total. Again here, not much but every little bit helps. On my mazda, (it’s flush, I don’t to tilt or poke) the wider stance allows for enough stability in the turns and I don’t get hop from road imperfections because I haven’t tampered with the absorption properties of the original suspension that was adequately designed by engineers. And I don’t brag, but I very much enjoy curves and utilize the 5 speed as hard as I can without be wreckless/dangerous to myself or others. Do you guys think that I may get some added rigidity(and I don’t mean alot here) from kicking out and flushing up the rims/tires as I have done on other car models?
I know little to nothing about up-sizing tires and rims. Im not one that likes to pay for rims when the vehicle came with perfectly good ones. Lol. I am concerned about my transmission, having dumped black burnt DW-1 ATF out of it once. I've already added 3 pounds to each wheel going to a high performance tire. How much more weight are you talking about adding? I got what I wanted in handling without going to far out of the box, sticking with the recomended 245/60r18 size. For an even more spirited driving need, I might consider a set of 255/60r18 High Performance Goodyear Eagles that are a little wider and can fit on our stock rim. 35lb tire versus the 32lb OEs. I've never been a Goodyear fan, but it's rated #1 in the class. There are Ultra High Performance tires that will fit on our rims.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I know little to nothing about up-sizing tires and rims. Im not one that likes to pay for rims when the vehicle came with perfectly good ones. Lol. I am concerned about my transmission, having dumped black burnt DW-1 ATF out of it once. I've already added 3 pounds to each wheel going to a high performance tire. How much more weight are you talking about adding? I got what I wanted in handling without going to far out of the box, sticking with the recomended 245/60r18 size. For an even more spirited driving need, I might consider a set of 255/60r18 High Performance Goodyear Eagles that are a little wider and can fit on our stock rim. 35lb tire versus the 32lb OEs. I've never been a Goodyear fan, but it's rated #1 in the class. There are Ultra High Performance tires that will fit on our rims.
Understood. It’s true that spending money on rims/tires for negligible gains is not appealing to me at all. Plus my neighbor keeps complimenting the rims every day. I might catch him out there massaging them one day. I’ll put that to rest for now, but revisit in the future with the knowledge of those Goodyear tires. Thanks for that. More importantly I will lean into this vcm issue. You wrote earlier s-vcm and I was wondering if you got from that website svcmcontroller.com or somewhere else? Couple other questions.
1. Will it void the warranty period that I have left if they find out? If so, I would remove it before service at the dealer which I would only do under necessary circumstances as I do my own work. Unless of course their diagnostics can pull info that would rat me out.
2. I saw a lot of reference to engine temp display issues due to the way the device tricks the computer to keep the cylinders on. Any issues there? Thank you for your time and patience.
 

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Understood. It’s true that spending money on rims/tires for negligible gains is not appealing to me at all. Plus my neighbor keeps complimenting the rims every day. I might catch him out there massaging them one day. I’ll put that to rest for now, but revisit in the future with the knowledge of those Goodyear tires. Thanks for that. More importantly I will lean into this vcm issue. You wrote earlier s-vcm and I was wondering if you got from that website svcmcontroller.com or somewhere else? Couple other questions.
1. Will it void the warranty period that I have left if they find out? If so, I would remove it before service at the dealer which I would only do under necessary circumstances as I do my own work. Unless of course their diagnostics can pull info that would rat me out.
2. I saw a lot of reference to engine temp display issues due to the way the device tricks the computer to keep the cylinders on. Any issues there? Thank you for your time and patience.
I currently have installed S-VCM on 3 vehicles and have a family member with one. Neither of us have a warranty. Maybe someone here can answer that.
Yes, the device will cause your temp to read 166°F. The only ill effect this could have is if your vehicle actually has an over heating issue and you do not recognize it.
There are 3 or 4 VCM disabling devices being made. There are several VCM threads you could search. I chose S-VCM out of Canada because regardless of the ambient temperature, you didn't have to switch out the resistor.
www.svcmcontroller.com
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I currently have installed S-VCM on 3 vehicles and have a family member with one. Neither of us have a warranty. Maybe someone here can answer that.
Yes, the device will cause your temp to read 166°F. The only ill effect this could have is if your vehicle actually has an over heating issue and you do not recognize it.
There are 3 or 4 VCM disabling devices being made. There are several VCM threads you could search. I chose S-VCM out of Canada because regardless of the ambient temperature, you didn't have to switch out the resistor.
www.svcmcontroller.com
Ok great! Thank you much for all your responses and incite. Have a great day. (y)
 

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Ok great! Thank you much for all your responses and incite. Have a great day. (y)
U2.
If you decide to disable the VCM, please report back to us the results. I have doubters that disabling it solves the erratic behaving rpm gauge. My result was conclusive on my 17 EX-L.
 
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