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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys, I have a 2016 Honda Pilot Touring edition. My issue started in the Fall of last year. At the time we had the “emissions system problem” come up. We took the Pilot in to Norm Reeves Honda of Cerritos, CA and while I don’t recall the codes that they pulled up the problem ended up being the catalytic and they replaced it under the Honda warranty at no cost. The car was under 80,000 miles at the time. Fast forward to this month and the problem has returned. This time around the vehicle has 90,000 miles and the “emissions system problem” is back. I took it back to Norm Reeves Honda, they pulled codes P0430, P219B, P0304, and P0306, and they referenced bulletin 19-072 to “perform PGM-FI and A/T software updates “and they found the test to have failed. They concluded the fuel injectors need to be replaced and was quoted $1582! The Honda warranty will not cover this as the vehicle needs to be under 80,000 miles? Thinking my extended warranty will then pick up the tab, they also denied my claim! They said “Gasoline Fuel Injectors (Non-Electrical Failure) are excluded from coverage. To all my mechanics out there, what would be considered an electrical failed fuel injector? Is this a valid denial? Should I appeal?
The following day I don’t know if it’s because of the tinkering but multiple warning lights have now come on. They are staying lit for a few days, and then turning off. Reading through the multiple threads I saw some recommendations are to tighten the battery terminals and / or check the battery. I have done that but issue persist. Next, I saw someone posting about properly torquing the alternator bolt. Before I spend another dime, is there anything else that I should try? Thank you guys in advance!
 

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Hi guys, I have a 2016 Honda Pilot Touring edition. My issue started in the Fall of last year. At the time we had the “emissions system problem” come up. We took the Pilot in to Norm Reeves Honda of Cerritos, CA and while I don’t recall the codes that they pulled up the problem ended up being the catalytic and they replaced it under the Honda warranty at no cost. The car was under 80,000 miles at the time. Fast forward to this month and the problem has returned. This time around the vehicle has 90,000 miles and the “emissions system problem” is back. I took it back to Norm Reeves Honda, they pulled codes P0430, P219B, P0304, and P0306, and they referenced bulletin 19-072 to “perform PGM-FI and A/T software updates “and they found the test to have failed. They concluded the fuel injectors need to be replaced and was quoted $1582! The Honda warranty will not cover this as the vehicle needs to be under 80,000 miles? Thinking my extended warranty will then pick up the tab, they also denied my claim! They said “Gasoline Fuel Injectors (Non-Electrical Failure) are excluded from coverage. To all my mechanics out there, what would be considered an electrical failed fuel injector? Is this a valid denial? Should I appeal?
The following day I don’t know if it’s because of the tinkering but multiple warning lights have now come on. They are staying lit for a few days, and then turning off. Reading through the multiple threads I saw some recommendations are to tighten the battery terminals and / or check the battery. I have done that but issue persist. Next, I saw someone posting about properly torquing the alternator bolt. Before I spend another dime, is there anything else that I should try? Thank you guys in advance!
Is your engine running smooth?
 

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Yes, I see no noticeable difference in driving.
If you believe or can verify that your engine is running (firing) on all 6 cylinders, I'd...
  1. Make sure your air filter is clean.
  2. Clean the (MAF) Mass Airflow sensor with CRC Electronic Cleaner or MAF Cleaner. Briefly spray the electrodes inside and let dry thoroughly before reinstalling.
  3. Replace the 6 spark plugs if they are fouled.
  4. Disable the VCM.
  5. Use a top tier 87 octane fuel.
  6. (Optional) consider using 5w30 oil. One that is proven to have less evaporation.
The codes you have are not symptomatic of an electrical glitch. I'd try the above to try and avoid a much more costly repair. Especially if you plan on keeping this vehicle long term.
Just to note.., Your timing belt water pump job is due soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If you believe or can verify that your engine is running (firing) on all 6 cylinders, I'd...
  1. Make sure your air filter is clean.
  2. Clean the (MAF) Mass Airflow sensor with CRC Electronic Cleaner or MAF Cleaner. Briefly spray the electrodes inside and let dry thoroughly before reinstalling.
  3. Replace the 6 spark plugs if they are fouled.
  4. Disable the VCM.
  5. Use a top tier 87 octane fuel.
  6. (Optional) consider using 5w30 oil. One that is proven to have less evaporation.
The codes you have are not symptomatic of an electrical glitch. I'd try the above to try and avoid a much more costly repair. Especially if you plan on keeping this vehicle long term.
Just to note.., Your timing belt water pump job is due soon.
Wo
If you believe or can verify that your engine is running (firing) on all 6 cylinders, I'd...
  1. Make sure your air filter is clean.
  2. Clean the (MAF) Mass Airflow sensor with CRC Electronic Cleaner or MAF Cleaner. Briefly spray the electrodes inside and let dry thoroughly before reinstalling.
  3. Replace the 6 spark plugs if they are fouled.
  4. Disable the VCM.
  5. Use a top tier 87 octane fuel.
  6. (Optional) consider using 5w30 oil. One that is proven to have less evaporation.
The codes you have are not symptomatic of an electrical glitch. I'd try the above to try and avoid a much more costly repair. Especially if you plan on keeping this vehicle long term.
Just to note.., Your timing belt water pump job is due soon.

Would you know what is meant by “Gasoline Fuel Injectors that do not have an electrical failure"? I just want to be sure the extended warranty is not sidelining me.
 

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Wo



Would you know what is meant by “Gasoline Fuel Injectors that do not have an electrical failure"? I just want to be sure the extended warranty is not sidelining me.
Your injectors are working but are likely dirty. The things I mention above have the ability over time to clear up a dirty cylinder. So I'll add another #
.7 After the above changes /modifications, take your vehicle on some long highway speed drives. This will help break those deposits built up in the cylinder.
 

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2020 Honda Passport Touring AWD Metallic Steel
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Both Honda and most independent mechanics offer a fuel injector service that can do wonders for quickly cleaning injectors. It is a pressurized cleaning system. It generally is in the $150 -$250 dollar range and takes about an hour or so to complete. A Honda dealer will be more expensive than an independent mechanic.

I can attest that the system works. I have a 19 year old 3/4 ton PU that has never had any form of injector issue. I must however advise that this vehicle has been used as a demonstration vehicle by a local company that manufactures one such system. They use the vehicle for demonstration for potential customers of they system and in return I, and the other people on the vehicle use list, do not have to pay for the service.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just wanted to follow-up on this thread.

After trying all the basic and inexpensive stuff. My vehicle got to the point where it almost stalled and barely made it home safely. Immediately after I arrived home, I went online and bought some genuine Honda fuel injectors and watched the YouTube video on how to do it yourself. Total time it took me to do the job was about half a day. I'm not a mechanic but handy with projects IF there is some sort of guide or video I can watch. Total cost of the parts with shipping was $245. Dealer wanted to charge me $1600.
 

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That is awsome that you did your own injectors!
How is it running now?
Examine spark plugs?
Check engine light on or off?
Replacing the fuel injectors may have been a treatment for the symptom of the P0430 code but not the root cause.
 

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Your injectors are working but are likely dirty. The things I mention above have the ability over time to clear up a dirty cylinder. So I'll add another #
.7 After the above changes /modifications, take your vehicle on some long highway speed drives. This will help break those deposits built up in the cylinder.
So does the VCM cause issues with the fuel injectors? People say the VCM will make your engine burn oil after a while, and the gunk will probably collect on the injectors. Or is that not the case with the third gen Pilots? A lot of people had issues with their injectors with the early Pilots, but could it be because of the VCM being messed up or something? Or am I completely wrong about this lol.
 

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So does the VCM cause issues with the fuel injectors? People say the VCM will make your engine burn oil after a while, and the gunk will probably collect on the injectors. Or is that not the case with the third gen Pilots? A lot of people had issues with their injectors with the early Pilots, but could it be because of the VCM being messed up or something? Or am I completely wrong about this lol.
I would never say Honda hasn't had their share of injector problems. At the same time, how could one ever believe that the VCM is harmless to ones engine. In the old days, if my engine were running on 3 or 4 cylinders, we fixed it. We called it a dead cylinder! We identified it by pulling a spark plug and finding it fouled out by oil and deposits. The VCM is an after thought applied to a very well engineered engine. Open valves in a dormant cylinder = burned oil on everything in the combustion chamber. The only way this is cleaned is by the igniting gasoline in the chamber. If your cylinder lays dormant more than it fires, it is unable to be kept clean to the point of the need for repair. That can include spark plugs, injectors, piston rings, EGR valve catalytic converters and O2 sensors. Not to mention the vibration and strain the VCM puts on your engine mounts and transmission.
Disabling the VCM is a no brainer to me.
 
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I would never say Honda hasn't had their share of injector problems. At the same time, how could one ever believe that the VCM is harmless to ones engine. In the old days, if my engine were running on 3 or 4 cylinders, we fixed it. We called it a dead cylinder! We identified it by pulling a spark plug and finding it fouled out by oil and deposits. The VCM is an after thought applied to a very well engineered engine. Open valves in a dormant cylinder = burned oil on everything in the combustion chamber. The only way this is cleaned is by the igniting gasoline in the chamber. If your cylinder lays dormant more than it fires, it is unable to be kept clean to the point of the need for repair. That can include spark plugs, injectors, piston rings, EGR valve catalytic converters and O2 sensors. Not to mention the vibration and strain the VCM puts on your engine mounts and transmission.
Disabling the VCM is a no brainer to me.
I already know a Christmas gift that I'll get for myself then:sneaky:.
 

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I would never say Honda hasn't had their share of injector problems. At the same time, how could one ever believe that the VCM is harmless to ones engine. In the old days, if my engine were running on 3 or 4 cylinders, we fixed it. We called it a dead cylinder! We identified it by pulling a spark plug and finding it fouled out by oil and deposits. The VCM is an after thought applied to a very well engineered engine. Open valves in a dormant cylinder = burned oil on everything in the combustion chamber. The only way this is cleaned is by the igniting gasoline in the chamber. If your cylinder lays dormant more than it fires, it is unable to be kept clean to the point of the need for repair. That can include spark plugs, injectors, piston rings, EGR valve catalytic converters and O2 sensors. Not to mention the vibration and strain the VCM puts on your engine mounts and transmission.
Disabling the VCM is a no brainer to me.
The mis-fires you referenced in the old days were engine failures. VCM disabling a cylinder is not the same as a mis-fire. VCM is designed to disable 3 cylinders as controlled by the PCM. The 2nd gen 6-4-3 VCM was problematic and resulted in Honda releasing a TSB to replace piston rings to resolve oil consumption issues and mis-fires but the 3G Pilot uses a new generation of 6-3 VCM. I don‘t know of any data that says this new version of VCM causes oil consumption or cylinder mis-fires. According to the OP, his vehicle‘s mis-fires occurred on cylinders 4 and 6; these 2 cylinders are never disabled by VCM so VCM had nothing to do with his vehicle’s problem. I owned a 2005 Ody with VCM for 15 years and 180K and never had an issue with oil consumption or misfires caused by VCM. (But I did have the engine mounts fail).
 

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I have no problem being corrected. Can you point us all to an article as to how the new Honda VCM works please. Seems to be differing opinions as to what's actually happening.
So people don't think Im pulling stuff out of the air...
 

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I have no problem being corrected. Can you point us all to an article as to how the new Honda VCM works please. Seems to be differing opinions as to what's actually happening.
So people don't think Im pulling stuff out of the air...
See the Power Train section in the link below.
 

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See the Power Train section in the link below.
I see it now. Thank you for the correction. I'll be more mindful next thread. Appreciate it.
 

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So does fuel usually drip out of the injectors when they’re off? Vcm doesn’t seem like a good idea if it does drip, because it can trap the exhaust has inside as cbayman said, but if it doesn’t drip too much, vcm seems like a pretty good feature IF you’re not planning to keep the car for as long as you can. If I was planning to keep the car for 10 years or so, I’d probably keep vcm off but I’m planning to keep it running as long as I can so I’m going to purchase a muzzler.
 
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