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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi,

My wife is the primary driver of our 2016 Pilot EXL. It does not have Honda Sensing or any of the driver assist features.

It is our vacation car and we tend to take it for weekend trips to shore areas in the summer and generally any time we can’t fit everything in my car (Subaru Forester)

I am really confused with the Minder system. This is our first Honda, having owned 3 Subarus before this. Subaru had no 3 row SUVs at the time so we felt the Honda was the best bet when we bought in summer of 2016.

Normally we service the car close to home which is around a 6 month interval. We will call the home dealer dealer “A” and the summer dealer “B”

I’ve had the differential fluid replaced when the minder came up around the 12k mark but since then it hadn’t come back. Last summer in 2019 we were down the shore already so we figured we would have it serviced here since it was just the quick oil change service. They (dealer B) tried up selling me on the differential fluid because it was the first time there but I said no because it had been done but that was around 20,000 miles before that. Hope that was the right call.

Dealer A pushed hard for the emissions service which he said will prevent carbon buildup on the intake valves. I agree that this is a potential issue as I know about DI carbon buildup - my Subie is DI also - so I let them do it. But, I don’t know much about it. I don’t mind being out the $100 for the service but just trying to see if anyone else did it. I also did the ATF change earlier this year around the 36k mark as that popped up for the minder as well, I think B-1-6.

Anyway, I still dont understand the minder system but trying To make sense out of it. Why no rear differential minder codes since the original 12k job? How often should I do this emissions thing? Should I wait until DI is a problem or would that cost more money to fix?

Subaru ascent is available but we wouldn’t trade for it as that would be too much financial loss. I know that no car lasts forever but I would like to get 10 years out of it. I hate the cost of the timing belt service but shame on me for not doing my research on the engine design.

I do some of my own maintenance myself like the wiper blades and engine and cabin filters, those are easy.

My only disappointments about this car are the no CarPlay and driver assist but you can’t predict what’s coming out in the future. And our first garage door homelink button has failed and doesn’t show electrical contact (the red light that blinks) so we use the third button for now. And lastly he infotainment will be blank for the radio presets. If you tap them they tune the right channels but you have no idea what they are. Honda is unable to duplicate despite pictures but now that i am out of warranty I am sure they will be able to fix it for a price.

Has anyone replaced the Fog Lights or Headlights with LED? Can you recommend a bulb? LED changeovers for the interior lights?

Any suggestions for the CarPlay thing or the infotainment problems?


Thanks
 

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2020 Honda Passport Touring AWD Metallic Steel
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Rear differential has an early fluid change as 1 there is no filter in the rear differential and 2 the newly machined differential gears will have some wear in as they seat to each other. This early change gets the wear in shavings, if any, out of the differential. Generally from then on the differential fluid change is every 30K miles afterwards unless you are driving at slow speeds in mountainous conditions or towing a trailer then it is every 15K miles.

Personally not a fan of LED aftermarket headlights no matter if they are the cheap Chinese made LED's or the expensive "better" LED bulbs. LED headlights are not built with typical incandescent reflectors, rather they are designed with a projector housing which concentrates the light into a beam that is easily controlled. LED's in a traditional housing spread the light out far to much and can be blinding to other drivers, even if you think you have them aimed properly. Just the nature of the beast. Granted I know others will probably disagree with me on this. Just speaking from experience.

If you haven't done so yet, got to the Honda Owners Site, create and account and enter you VIN #. Lots of good resources, information, service history on your vehicle etc. If you don't have the full owners manual you can download a PDF version. They also have the MM information and explanation for you vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks, I will check it out. For LED’s I would use Diode Dynamics, made in the USA. Have had good experiences with the company from previous cars for myself and friends/family. I am familiar with headlight aiming but I understand your point about the light being too diffuse. I will play that one by ear.

I’m at 40% oil life left but I may take it in at the 15% mark if other things pop up also like that differential service since that is practically 30k since the last one.

I will try to dig out exactly what they did for the emission thing. it’s not like I had a code.

Im sure there are pilots out there with more mileage than mine so wondering if any of them have had carbon issues.
 

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Thanks, I will check it out. For LED’s I would use Diode Dynamics, made in the USA. Have had good experiences with the company from previous cars for myself and friends/family. I am familiar with headlight aiming but I understand your point about the light being too diffuse. I will play that one by ear.

I’m at 40% oil life left but I may take it in at the 15% mark if other things pop up also like that differential service since that is practically 30k since the last one.

I will try to dig out exactly what they did for the emission thing. it’s not like I had a code.

Im sure there are pilots out there with more mileage than mine so wondering if any of them have had carbon issues.
Personally I don't get too excited over the MM. AT 15% I decide it is time to call and schedule an appointment for a week or two out. When ever it is convenient. It's usually down to 5% by the time I get it in. With my 2013 Pilot Touring I followed the MM with no issues what so ever. Now with the 2020 Passport Touring I am doing the same thing, although with the way the world is right now I may be changing the Oil at 12 months instead of the mileage as Oil should be changed once a year regardless of the miles.
 

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I don't trust the MM. Especially with the service intervals for the 6-speed transmission. I'd do a drain and fill on the ATF every other oil change. Check your fluid color for turning black before recommended service. Especially if you have an active VCM and are in warm weather climate. From time to time, observe your rpm gauge for any fluctuations while in cruise. This is a sign of a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I don’t know if I’m active VCM or whatever you said. My wife typically drives it unless we are taking a vacation or trip as a family when I drive.

Will keep an eye on ATF color and see what it looks like.

Yes I usually do my stuff on mileage not time but I will have brake fluid changed at the 3y mark because it absorbs moisture.
 
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I don’t know if I’m active VCM or whatever you said. My wife typically drives it unless we are taking a vacation or trip as a family when I drive.

Will keep an eye on ATF color and see what it looks like.

Yes I usually do my stuff on mileage not time but I will have brake fluid changed at the 3y mark because it absorbs moisture.
Many of us have chosen to put a device on our Pilots and other Honda V6 engines that have VCM to prevent its operation. The VCM causes certain cylinders to lay dormant when coasting, maintaing speed or in cruise for fuel economy. There is evidence that it can cause damage to the engine and other components. In my case, even after dumping my transmission fluid 4 times. My erratic rpm fluctuation was only ended after I installed S-VCM.
 

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Many of us have chosen to put a device on our Pilots and other Honda V6 engines that have VCM to prevent its operation. The VCM causes certain cylinders to lay dormant when coasting, maintaing speed or in cruise for fuel economy. There is evidence that it can cause damage to the engine and other components. In my case, even after dumping my transmission fluid 4 times. My erratic rpm fluctuation was only ended after I installed S-VCM.
Is the "erratic rpm fluctuation" a symptom of as problem, or simply evidence of the VCM system in operation?
As the number of active cylinders changes, wouldn't you expect the rpm to fluctuate in order to maintain the same power output and, thus, the same vehicle speed?
 

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Is the "erratic rpm fluctuation" a symptom of as problem, or simply evidence of the VCM system in operation?
As the number of active cylinders changes, wouldn't you expect the rpm to fluctuate in order to maintain the same power output and, thus, the same vehicle speed?
When I say fluctuate, I mean erratic behavior. The rpm gauge is constantly moving up and down.
 

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RPM variation of about 100 or 200 at steady cruise indicates that the torque converter lockup clutch is slipping. Not a good thing. Try fresh ATF to try to improve internal hydraulic pressure and better valve body function. Cleaning or replacing the solenoids may help too. Not sure if VCM is a factor in TCC slipping.
 

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Neither the 2013 or 2008 (both of which have VCM) have ever had erratic RPMs when the ECO light comes on. While VCM is muzzled on both of our cars, I think some of the "symptoms" listed on the various VCM muzzler websites are a bit of a stretch but not completely untrue. I don't see how deactivating 2 or 3 cylinders would cause the torque converter to fail but I'm not an expert. I will say, most people have no idea what the ECO light is and drive their Pilots past 200,000 miles without any issues so personally I wouldn't worry too much.

As far as the maintenance minder goes, I wouldn't really follow it. I go between 5,000-7,000 miles between oil changes. I change my transmission fluid every 25k or so. Timing belt service is done every 100k miles or so. I guess for you I would add in rear differential every 60k or so.
Other things the MM system does is tell you when to change cabin air filter and things like that. It is based solely on time. I check it yearly and have only replaced it once.
Then there are things like brakes and tires that are obvious when its time to change those out.

I honestly don't understand the religious following of the MM. Plus dealers usually let you know when your car needs to be serviced before the MM lets you know. I don't even reset mine because between me and my mechanic, whatever needs to get replaced does.
 

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As far as the maintenance minder goes, I wouldn't really follow it.
I honestly don't understand the religious following of the MM.
I honestly don't understand the various objections to the MM.
It displays prompts for oil changes based upon the way the vehicle is driven and notifies you of whatever else might need to done when it's time for an oil change.
It's really not much different than having to follow the old printed mileage-based schedule, except that you had to guess if you were in the normal or severe use category, while the MM makes that determination for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That’s convenient, I agree. For my wife who is the primary driver it acts as a reminder to let one of us handle service and coordinate our usually conflicting schedules.

I dont knock MM, it was more about the carbon cleaning and stuff from optional services. I know that carbon buildup is an issue on direct injection engines but I don’t know exactly how much of an issue hence the post.

When you do The TB service did you also request idler pulley and tensioner and thermostat replacement as well? I’ve made that request on my old Subaru because the original parts were prone to failure around the 180-200 range before the next TB service which would be 210k.
 

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I honestly don't understand the various objections to the MM.
It displays prompts for oil changes based upon the way the vehicle is driven and notifies you of whatever else might need to done when it's time for an oil change.
It's really not much different than having to follow the old printed mileage-based schedule, except that you had to guess if you were in the normal or severe use category, while the MM makes that determination for you.
Yeah it works for some, but I don't want to wait for my car to tell me to change the oil because I'm sure it'll happen before 5,000 miles. I don't go to a dealer and my mechanic doesn't even reset anything after a service is performed.

I'm just a bit more relaxed when it comes to servicing my car. So it's great if people can get good use out of it, but I ignore it.
 

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My opinion as 20+ year Honda Dealer tech. The mm is for pr, every mfgr wants to have the lowest cost of ownership. Based on the failures I see vs maintenance history, the mm costs the customer more $ in the long run.
How much difference is there between the required maintenance as displayed by the MM versus that according to the old printed mileage-based schedule?

Are vehicle owners more likely to ignore/overlook a printed maintenance schedule in the owner's manual or a message that appears on the instrument cluster display when they start the vehicle?
 

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How much difference is there between the required maintenance as displayed by the MM versus that according to the old printed mileage-based schedule?
Depends, I have seen the mm anywhere from 4k to 19k miles, trans fluid from 25k to over 100k, r diff generally around 15k-20k. I do wonder on the trans if the 100k ones were reset with the oil change without the customer realizing it.

As far as customers ignoring, many customers ignore everything, very common to see -xxxx miles for oil changes.
 

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Depends, I have seen the mm anywhere from 4k to 19k miles, trans fluid from 25k to over 100k, r diff generally around 15k-20k. I do wonder on the trans if the 100k ones were reset with the oil change without the customer realizing it.
As far as customers ignoring, many customers ignore everything, very common to see -xxxx miles for oil changes.
4K is not out of the question for an oil change, since the pre-MM severe service schedule was every 3,750 miles.
19K is extraordinary. Is that what the MM indicated, or was that the mileage since the customer last had the vehicle in for service?
15-20K is not unusual for the rear differential fluid.
Normal ATF service intervals used to be at 45K, then every 30K, so the 100K ones sound as though the MM was reset or ignored/overlooked once, if not twice.
Some seem to have the misapprehension that the MM is only an oil life/change indicator.
 
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