Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all
My 2015 Pilot started knocking really bad, CEL light on and finally died and cannot start. At first I thought it was the timing belt, but removed the timing belt cover and turned the engine, looks ok. I checked OBD code, P4300 came out. I know this means oil pressure sensor for the cylinder disable system, but I think the sensor is OK as I don’t see it grounded when I put a meter to it. Can anyone tell me what it could be? Does not start,

Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,507 Posts
Hello all
My 2015 Pilot started knocking really bad, CEL light on and finally died and cannot start. At first I thought it was the timing belt, but removed the timing belt cover and turned the engine, looks ok. I checked OBD code, P4300 came out. I know this means oil pressure sensor for the cylinder disable system, but I think the sensor is OK as I don’t see it grounded when I put a meter to it. Can anyone tell me what it could be? Does not start,

Thank you
Causes for this code may include:
Low engine oil level or pressure
Defective valve timing control solenoid/s
Open or shorted cylinder deactivation circuit/s Faulty
PCM or PCM programming error
How many miles does your vehicle have?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
And how much oil is left in the sump?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
And how much oil is left in the sump?
Hi - The oil level is full. It is not starting so hard to diagnose. The last time it ran yesterday it was very rough and knocking tremendously. Then it just died and now it is not starting. The engine sounds like the timing belt is broken (like no compression), but I saw the belt spinning the cam sprockets when I tried to start the car. The CEL was on just before it acted up.Code reads P3400. Mileage is 105K. Any assistance is appreciated. Thank you
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,507 Posts
Hi - The oil level is full. It is not starting so hard to diagnose. The last time it ran yesterday it was very rough and knocking tremendously. Then it just died and now it is not starting. The engine sounds like the timing belt is broken (like no compression), but I saw the belt spinning the cam sprockets when I tried to start the car. The CEL was on just before it acted up.Code reads P3400. Mileage is 105K. Any assistance is appreciated. Thank you
This is just an educated guess but I'm thinking your variable valve timing solenoid/s. Look up how to troubleshoot these.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,507 Posts
OK, will do. Thanks.
As in my earlier post these solenoids control the oil pressure going up into your cams and control timing. If your oil is low or low preasure, you can get this trouble code. This is not an acusation, but if the oil is not changed regularly and the oil is dirty the VVT will not work properly. Worst possible situation is if an oil filter burst because it hadn't been changed in a long time and debris went through the engine and plugged the screens in the variable valve timing actuator and spool. But there is the chance the solenoid is faulty. I hope I'm wrong on the oil filter bursting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
Considering the 105k mileage, and us helpers not knowing the driving or maintenance history, it's likely worthwhile checking the valve timing It's marks on the cam and crank gears, so not hard to check with the covers off. The belt has a tensioner that normally gets replaced with the belt, so maybe a little slack in the belt from loose tensioner or belt stretch. Regardless, the belt jumps a few teeth and suddenly you have knocking. The 105k IIRC is the factory belt and tensioner and water pump and spare tire air change interval. <30 mins work and you'll know if it's related.

You absolutely want to verify cam/valve timing before testing compression.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
10-second research finds possible causes listed:

P3400 HONDA Possible Causes
  • Low engine oil level
  • Faulty Rocker Arm Oil Control Solenoid
  • Faulty EOP (Engine Oil Pressure) sensor
  • Incorrect oil type used
  • Engine mechanical condition
Your knocking description really gets my attention, as even when a VCM solenoid fails, the worst case is that one pair of valves is left open or closed. The solenoid has limit-sensors built in to confirm successful activation to the PCM, something that MIGHT be caused by a solenoid failure but, especially given the noise, is more likely the solenoid not actually moving because there's no oil pressure to drive it. If no oil pressure to drive it then there's risk of no oil pressure to other critical bits like bearings and cam followers/lifters.

Check the belt and the cam timing as I suggested above, but only move the engine by wrench, and ONLY clockwise looking from the "front" pulley (through the right wheelwell) and only while you can see the cam pulleys moving as you move the crankshaft.

I would also carefully remove and cut open the oil filter for a look at the media. There are dedicated oil filter cutters available that let you cut the end off just below the top seam, and no metal shavings as you might get with a saw. Looks like a big pipe cutter. They come on brown trucks from (mine...) Summit Racing, and I'm sure there's one or maybe two on the Amazon screen. Once the end of the filter is off, carefully cut the media and lay it out on a white paper towel in good light, outside filter media face showing. Oil passes outside-to-inside, so any metal particles will show up in bright light, nestled down in the pleats/folds in the media. Drain the oil from the sump and filter it slowly through a white shop towel, again looking for metal debris that would telltale an oil system failure and mechanical damage.

Share back what you find, please.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
As in my earlier post these solenoids control the oil pressure going up into your cams and control timing. If your oil is low or low preasure, you can get this trouble code. This is not an acusation, but if the oil is not changed regularly and the oil is dirty the VVT will not work properly. Worst possible situation is if an oil filter burst because it hadn't been changed in a long time and debris went through the engine and plugged the screens in the variable valve timing actuator and spool. But there is the chance the solenoid is faulty. I hope I'm wrong on the oil filter bursting.
Thank you. I appreciate your input. I am sure the oil is ok, I don’t miss a beat on changing oil. I thought oil filters these days have a bypass in case it gets too much resistance from being dirty, it bypasses the dirty oil right back to the engine, but I may be mistaken. Anyway, I will check the VVT and hope it gets me answers. Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
10-second research finds possible causes listed:

P3400 HONDA Possible Causes
  • Low engine oil level
  • Faulty Rocker Arm Oil Control Solenoid
  • Faulty EOP (Engine Oil Pressure) sensor
  • Incorrect oil type used
  • Engine mechanical condition
Your knocking description really gets my attention, as even when a VCM solenoid fails, the worst case is that one pair of valves is left open or closed. The solenoid has limit-sensors built in to confirm successful activation to the PCM, something that MIGHT be caused by a solenoid failure but, especially given the noise, is more likely the solenoid not actually moving because there's no oil pressure to drive it. If no oil pressure to drive it then there's risk of no oil pressure to other critical bits like bearings and cam followers/lifters.

Check the belt and the cam timing as I suggested above, but only move the engine by wrench, and ONLY clockwise looking from the "front" pulley (through the right wheelwell) and only while you can see the cam pulleys moving as you move the crankshaft.

I would also carefully remove and cut open the oil filter for a look at the media. There are dedicated oil filter cutters available that let you cut the end off just below the top seam, and no metal shavings as you might get with a saw. Looks like a big pipe cutter. They come on brown trucks from (mine...) Summit Racing, and I'm sure there's one or maybe two on the Amazon screen. Once the end of the filter is off, carefully cut the media and lay it out on a white paper towel in good light, outside filter media face showing. Oil passes outside-to-inside, so any metal particles will show up in bright light, nestled down in the pleats/folds in the media. Drain the oil from the sump and filter it slowly through a white shop towel, again looking for metal debris that would telltale an oil system failure and mechanical damage.

Share back what you find, please.
Thank you. Looks like I got my work cut out for me. I cannot help but think something got seriously damaged with all that knocking before it finally quit running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
You'll know really quickly if you can filter some of the sump oil through a white t-shirt or a non-terry shop towel. If the cause was a failure of the oil pump or the pump drive, you'll see little in the filter and more in the t-shirt, as with nothing to push oil through the filter there's nothing to push debris either. The oil pickup undoubtedly has a screen on it to keep the big chunks out, making it even easier to find debris in the sump oil.

Got one of those cute inspection cameras? You -may- be able to see the screen in the pickup through the drain plug hole. It sits in a shallow wier and pretty close to the bottom, so it will take some creative bending of the flex to get a worthwhile look.

Or just pull the oil sump. Less than ten minutes including putting the car up in the air a bit (lift, ramps, jack and stands) for access. Drain and hold the oil for inspection first of course. Power tools (battery ratchet or impact) OK for removal, but not for installation. Your 1/4"-drive torque-limiting wrench or driver will be your friend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You'll know really quickly if you can filter some of the sump oil through a white t-shirt or a non-terry shop towel. If the cause was a failure of the oil pump or the pump drive, you'll see little in the filter and more in the t-shirt, as with nothing to push oil through the filter there's nothing to push debris either. The oil pickup undoubtedly has a screen on it to keep the big chunks out, making it even easier to find debris in the sump oil.

Got one of those cute inspection cameras? You -may- be able to see the screen in the pickup through the drain plug hole. It sits in a shallow wier and pretty close to the bottom, so it will take some creative bending of the flex to get a worthwhile look.

Or just pull the oil sump. Less than ten minutes including putting the car up in the air a bit (lift, ramps, jack and stands) for access. Drain and hold the oil for inspection first of course. Power tools (battery ratchet or impact) OK for removal, but not for installation. Your 1/4"-drive torque-limiting wrench or driver will be your friend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Well, I checked the alignment of the timing marks and what do you know, it is of by 5 notches! Seems to me that the original problem was the cylinder deactivation system, and because the car kept running in that mode, according to the driver it was knocking for some time. I am thinking it finally skipped the belt and did not start after that. So, my question is, 5 notches is a lot. Would that be enough to cause valve interference?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
Were it me... I'd carefully restore the valve timing as part of the belt and water pump replacement you are due for. Maybe before doing all that work, just get the belt on correctly so you can do some simple leakdown testing. Assuming that you have some compressed air available, a leakdown test involves bringing each cylinder to top center on compression stroke, then introducing air in through the spark plug hole and listening for where it leaks out. The "real" leakdown tester has a couple gauges that let you determine how much air is really passing into (and out of somewhere...) the cylinder under test. Testing for bent valves really just needs some relatively low-pressure air in the TDC cylinder. Then you listen at the intake, the oil filler and the tailpipe for evidence of where it might be leaking. One of my compression gauge kits has a hose to a plug fitting, and a quick-disconnect on the other end, A small pressure regulator and gauge lets me put the air in. Just be careful, because the cylinder not exactly at TDC risks air pressure rolling the crank.

----
Leakdown testing is a popular way of determining engine sealing capability, particularly handy when evaluating an engine that can't be warmed up and then compression-tested on the starter motor. Aircraft engines get this evaluation, as do engines 'sitting on a pallet'. For the discussion above about bent valves, it's an easy go/no-go test that will instantly tell you whether the cylinder heads need to come off for new valves.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,261 Posts
Also --
The VCM system won't cause the belt to jump, unless there was a backfire while cranking or some other cause for the crank to spin backwards. You mention "off five teeth", interesting to know which direction. Are both cams off by the same amount and same direction? Cams leading the crank now? Those are signs that the belt walked up on the crank gear, only possible cause is timing belt stretched/tensioner failed, or crank turned the wrong way.

Share back your findings please. I'm working on expanding my doctorate to include "internet mechanical diagnostics" from the basic mechanical and electrical engineering undergrads plus the comp-sci post-grad. Diagnosing car problems should fall right in there somewhere...
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top