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Discussion Starter #1
I for one am not happy that some have reported that their new EXs are coming with the Bridgestone Dueler H/T D684. The Goodyear Integrity isn't a great tire but the numbers at Tirerack.com for the Dueler are markedly worse.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Dueler+H/T+D684

The Integrity is a 460AB tire with a 50,000 mile treadlife warranty. The Dueler D684 is a 180BB tire with NO treadlife warranty.

The "ride comfort", "noise comfort", and "wear" survey results are noticeably lower on the Dueler D684.

When Honda substitutes a poor tire that will last less than half as long as the original Integrity, this seems like "bait and switch" to me. I ordered my Pilot based on many things and one of them was the high treadwear rating of the Integrity. Now they are substituting a tire that won't last any where near as long and they expect me to "eat" the cost of new tires years earlier than if they had included the tires that were marketed as being the "standard" for the vehicle.

If you haven't gotten your new Pilot yet, what tires would you rather have ?
 

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180BB? That's probably not a tire I'd buy on closeout at Sam's for a car I'm selling! :)
 

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We have the Goodyear Integrity on our Pilot, which I'm hoping wear out fast. Their terrible in the rain and cornering. I can hardly wait til winter. The first snow storm will tell whether they stay or go.

We also have the Bridgestone H/T's on our Highlander Limited (Lower models come with Goodyears). They've been fine so far.
They are a little noisier but nothing like the Wrangler R/Ts on my Mountaineer. The tread pattern is more aggresive which makes them louder.

The treadwear numbers your looking at are subjective.
They compare best to other tires in the manufacturer's line.
Not brand to brand (which they should).
The 180 that your looking at is 60K according to the Bridgestone website.
http://www.bridgestonetire.com/dpp/sizespecs.asp?passproductid=20
Temp and Traction A A is the best but your driving an SUV.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/utqg.htm

If I do change the Pilot's tires I'd put Michelin Crossterrains but if it originally came with Bridgestone H/Ts I wouldn't even be thinking about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sorry, I don't believe for a second that the Dueler D684 at 180BB will last 60,000 miles. When DOT (Department of Transportation) set up the UTQG (Uniform Tire Quality Grade) system many, many years ago, it was done specifically so that the consumer COULD compare tires between manufacturers and not be misled by marketing hype. The standard then was that a treadwear value of "100" would last something like 10,000 miles. Therefore, for comparison purposes, a 460 would likely last around 46,000 miles and a 180 would likely last around 18,000 miles.

I can see the Dueler D684 being the standard on the LX and the Integrity, as a longer lasting tire, being the standard on the EX. But, I won't be satisfied with a short life tire being substituted on the EX just because Honda thinks that they can get away with it.

In fact, the 180 treadlife value is about the lowest number there is for a normal tire. The only time I remember seeing a lower number is for wide, high traction, sports car tires which don't last long at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Ooops, I forgot to mention that the Dueler on your Highlander is a 300BB with a 60,000 mile treadlife warranty according to Tirerack.com. I guess if it was a 180 and didn't last two years, then you would have the excuse to get those better Michelins.
 

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GACrabill, Your correct on the treadwear rating on the Duelers used on the Highlander it is 300.

Your wrong when you falsly assume the UTQG rating is actually acheiving what it was intended to do.

You can't cross shop manufacturers treadwear numbers.
Here are some links that help explain this.
http://www.goodyeartires.com/tireschool/tires101/tire_grades.html

Note: Tread wear grades are valid only for comparisons within a manufacturer's product line . They are not valid for comparisons between manufacturers.

http://www.nittotire.com/tiretech_utqg.asp

Please note that the ratings are set by each manufacturer, not the government, and as a result the ratings are not directly comparable between two different manufacturers.

The tire manufacturers select the grade themselves.

I have no reason to promote or defend bad tires.
It's just that I've had tires with 620 treadwear wear out sooner than others with significantly lower ratings.
Buy what you like.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
BillR,

Nice pointers but they just sound like typical marketing fluff to me - "if you want a better tire than my 180, buy my 300 but please don't compare to someone else".

The DOT makes no references whatsoever to "the treadwear value is unique by manufacturer and therefore must only be compared within that manufacturer's product line".

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testing/UTQG/UTQG_qna.html

Q. What does the TREADWEAR grade tell about a tire?
A. The higher the number, the greater tread life you should expect.

Again, no references anywhere in their FAQ about the manufacturers being allowed to pick what "100" means to them or any hint that the TREADWEAR numbers between brands are not comparable. The DOT determined exactly what A, B, C means for Traction and Temperature. They also determined exactly how the manufacturers are to determine Treadwear. The numbers ARE comparable between brands whether or not the manufacturers want you to believe something else.

"Buy what you like" is absolutely true but no one should be misled by advertising which seems to claim "my 300 isn't equal to theirs 'cause we're different".
 

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maybe you can, maybe you can't

I've read about this issue over and over. What I've come to believe is that the treadwear rating is indeed based on a standardized government test but the test is poorly designed. It allows a lot of leeway for the manufacturers to emphasize or deemphasize a certain tire. Furthermore, there is no government oversite--the manufacturers are on their honor to test and report on results accurately.

About 10 years ago I decided to use the warranty as a gauage of tire life. I'll pay more for a 50,000 mile tire than a 30,000 mile tire. I also never expect the longevity the warranty implies, it's just a gauge for comparison, and one I'd comfortably use across manufacturer.

As far as the treadwear rating, though, I would expect a treadwear rating of 400 to significantly outlast a 250, but I wouldn't expect much difference between a 400 and 460. They probably are more significant within a manufacturer's line, but be wary of that, too.

'Best advise I can give is to heed the recommendations of other buyers on www.tirerack.com, paying close attention to total rated miles.
 

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Ignoring treadlife comparisons, how about noise, handling, wet and snow traction? What limited materials I found out on the web suggest really bad wet and snow traction. This would be a real negative up here in New England. Anyone have some experiences yet?
Alan
 

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I haven't seen bad weather yet so won't be able to report on snow for the Goodyears, the wet handling is fine. I would trust the reviewers at tirerack on these tires, and agree that if I bought the Pilot EX expecting the Goodyears and got the Bridgestones, that I would be less than happy.

I haven't had any yokohama's before, but here's one with a good rating at a good price:

Geolanders

Anyone with any experience with these?
 
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