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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, thanks in advance for assisting me. I am trying to help out my dad and figure out the best course of action. He bought his 2012 Pilot new and has had it serviced religiously at the dealer.

One day it went into limp mode. I scanned it and it showed a misfire or two. ( This occured months ago but I remember it was on VCM cylinders.) I researched the codes and found out about the VCM issue. I printed out the TSB and all and we took it to the dealer. I also always noticed it was low on oil just like my sister's Crosstour (whole other can of worms.)

It was one day after the 10 year lawsuit VCM warranty. The service guy said you can ask Honda for help but they were going to confirm. I get a call and they state they found no misfire codes at all, but some other code and they replaced a part. I told them I scanned it myself and got the codes that are outlined in the TSB. Along with the oil consumption, it's a no-brainer. They denied any low oil consumption and codes, whatever, I left.

Fast forward a few months till recently, and guess what, another misfire code on cylinder 1. (The car pretty much sat for the last few months due to my dad being in/out hospital/rehab.) No oil around boots but plug is obviously burning oil.

So should I go back to this dealer and go through with trying to get Honda to cover part of it or just change plugs and muzzle it?
Car has around 60k.

Thanks!
 

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Try to get Honda to warranty it for the rings then buy the S-VCM or the VCM Tuner 2. The muzzler is old school and could allow you to overheat without indication.
 

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Ultimately the decision is up to you. Me personally, I don't believe the engine needs anything but a good cleaning out. This begins with...,
  1. Disabling the VCM
  2. New spark plugs
  3. Clean Air Filter
  4. Clean the MAF
  5. Air tight intake tube
  6. Clean PCV
  7. O2 sensors are functioning normally
  8. Use a top tier 87 octane fuel
  9. Use a less evaporative engine oil
  10. Some long spirited drives at highway speeds.
I own two 2012 v6 Crosstours. One with 245k miles and another with 99k. The rings have never been replaced in either.
 
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I own two 2012 v6 Crosstours. One with 245k miles and another with 99k. The rings have never been replaced in either.
Unless the cross tour has the same J series engine that was effected that's like comparing apples to oranges
It's also a 4 cylinder chitty chitty bang bang compared to the pilot..this can't even come close in comparison :)
 

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Unless the cross tour has the same J series engine that was effected that's like comparing apples to oranges
It's also a 4 cylinder chitty chitty bang bang compared to the pilot..this can't even come close in comparison :)
Crosstours came with 6 cylinder J series with VCM too. I currently own 2 of them. Thankfully we managed to stave off the ring job by lots of highway driving. I did replace the cats in the higher milage one around 180k.
 
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Crosstours came with 6 cylinder J series with VCM too. I currently own 2 of them. Thankfully we managed to stave off the ring job by lots of highway driving. I did replace the cats in the higher milage one around 180k.
I think your on to something my Pilot is at 105k all highway miles and the plugs came out worn only no indications of a ring job needed also.
 
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I would take it to a different dealer and get the issue addressed first before muzzling. I have found that not all Honda Dealers are the same. Some are awesome and go the extra mile for you and others will do the exact opposite. It depends on the culture of that dealership. Bring the invoices, the print outs and all your evidence with you and see what happens. I would also do it during the week, when Honda Corporate is open, so the Service Advisor can call corporate to get the service authorized. If you do it on the weekend, they will not be able to and you will probably have to come back, adding to your frustration.

I have a dealership about 30 minutes from me and they are crap. Every time I went there they wasted my time and I always left frustrated. They never adhered to the time my appointment was scheduled for and the last time I was there, they made me wait 5 hours for an A-1 oil change that was also scheduled. I now drive 1 hour each way to a dealership that has consistently meet or exceeded my expectations. Whenever there was an issue they have been prompt to address it and where appropriate, ate the cost without me having to demand it.
 

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The muzzler is old school and could allow you to overheat without indication.
I've had an old school VC Muzzler installed for at least 2 years and almost 20K miles and the ONLY issue I've ever had with it is in heavy traffic situations where there is alot of idling/stop and go, it heated up enough for the VCM to start working again. As soon as I get back up to speed, it resumes doing its job.
 

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I've had an old school VC Muzzler installed for at least 2 years and almost 20K miles and the ONLY issue I've ever had with it is in heavy traffic situations where there is alot of idling/stop and go, it heated up enough for the VCM to start working again. As soon as I get back up to speed, it resumes doing its job.
This is concerning (not that the device is or can cause an over heating condition). Are both your cooling fans working properly?
 

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I've had an old school VC Muzzler installed for at least 2 years and almost 20K miles and the ONLY issue I've ever had with it is in heavy traffic situations where there is alot of idling/stop and go, it heated up enough for the VCM to start working again. As soon as I get back up to speed, it resumes doing its job.
Yeah I think you're proving my point pretty well:

1) The resistor isn't 100% effective.

2) You have no idea how hot your engine actually got sitting in traffic, because the gauge is taking data from the same sensor value you're modifying to disable VCM.

The newer and better systems keep the values just below the threshold to ensure VCM NEVER comes on. They're also smart enough to know when the car starts getting too hot and will automatically disable to ensure you'll see the gauge rising in the car to KNOW you're overheating.

Testing has shown that you COULD overheat your car using the Muzzler and NOT have any indication on your dash. I know "it only pulls the reading down a little" but the problem is it's not linear so the hotter the car gets the more affect the Muzzler has on the reading your dash and the ECU receives.

I'm not knocking the Muzzler - it was a great idea. The newer solutions however are FAR safer and FAR superior.
 

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Are both your cooling fans working properly?
I would assume so. I struggle to put 10k miles a year on it. Bought new July 31 2012 and it may hit 80K miles this week. So...what, are you saying everyone who has installed one of these is warping their cylinder heads?
 

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Yeah I think you're proving my point pretty well:

1) The resistor isn't 100% effective.

2) You have no idea how hot your engine actually got sitting in traffic, because the gauge is taking data from the same sensor value you're modifying to disable VCM.

The newer and better systems keep the values just below the threshold to ensure VCM NEVER comes on. They're also smart enough to know when the car starts getting too hot and will automatically disable to ensure you'll see the gauge rising in the car to KNOW you're overheating.

Testing has shown that you COULD overheat your car using the Muzzler and NOT have any indication on your dash. I know "it only pulls the reading down a little" but the problem is it's not linear so the hotter the car gets the more affect the Muzzler has on the reading your dash and the ECU receives.

I'm not knocking the Muzzler - it was a great idea. The newer solutions however are FAR safer and FAR superior.
What is the far superior solution?
 

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What is the far superior solution?
The S-VCM or the VCM Tunner 2. Both use a microprocessor to monitor the actual sensor value and then report the "perfect" value to the ECU / Dash to prevent VCM activation. No changes to resistors, coming on it traffic, etc. Plug it in and attach a lead to the battery and you'll never see the ECO light again. Additionally IF the car ever overheats they'll make sure you and the ECU see it before it gets too hot. They're really slick. I have the S-VCM and it works great. The VCM Tunner 2 I think has some "extra" features and is likely the best current solution on the market.

I don't think you're running the risk of overheating your car because of the Muzzler. I think if something else in the cooling system breaks you run the risk of overheating without your knowledge. If the S-VCM and VCM Tunner 2 didn't exist I'd say the Muzzler is still worth doing, however since better options are out there I think it's inappropriate to recommend anything else.

S-VCM has a good explanation of the differences on their site as well as a graphic showing the differences in temperature reporting as it goes up on an Odyssey.

 

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I would assume so. I struggle to put 10k miles a year on it. Bought new July 31 2012 and it may hit 80K miles this week. So...what, are you saying everyone who has installed one of these is warping their cylinder heads?
Again, the device itself does not cause the issue. It just makes diagnosing an overheating condition harder. If your cooling system has been maintained (fresh coolant, good working thermostat and temp sensor), both cooling fans working properly should be able to keep up in stop and go traffic. To inspect fans, after the vehicle is warmed up with the A/C on, Just look and see if both fans are on. If they are, it might be time for some fresh coolant. To make sure your thermostat and temp sensor is working properly, it would require temporarily disconnecting the VCM muzzler and with a scanner, verify your engine temp is not exceeding 190°F.

Added:
It also would be good to go to a car wash and spray off all the dirt, grime, bug guts dead bird etc etc that may be caked on your radiator and A/C condenser.
 
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Again, the device itself does not cause the issue. It just makes diagnosing an overheating condition harder. If your cooling system has been maintained (fresh coolant, good working thermostat and temp sensor), both cooling fans working properly should be able to keep up in stop and go traffic. To inspect fans, after the vehicle is warmed up with the A/C on, Just look and see if both fans are on. If they are, it might be time for some fresh coolant. To make sure your thermostat and temp sensor is working properly, it would require temporarily disconnecting the VCM muzzler and with a scanner, verify your engine temp is not exceeding 190°F.

Added:
It also would be good to go to a car wash and spray off all the dirt, grime, bug guts dead bird etc etc that may be caked on your radiator and A/C condenser.
I said stop and go traffic but the time that comes to memory was July 4th around the Indiana Dunes National Park, there were literally thousands of people walking down one of the access roads to the Lake Michigan beach so I had to "crawl" for a lengthy period of time until I got out of the area(we live very close by). My Pilot has been serviced either at the Honda or Acura dealership and I'm "Johnny on the spot" when it comes to maintenance. I had the T-Belt water pump etc done at the acura dealership last year when it was 7 years old, but only had about 70k on it.
 

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I said stop and go traffic but the time that comes to memory was July 4th around the Indiana Dunes National Park, there were literally thousands of people walking down one of the access roads to the Lake Michigan beach so I had to "crawl" for a lengthy period of time until I got out of the area(we live very close by). My Pilot has been serviced either at the Honda or Acura dealership and I'm "Johnny on the spot" when it comes to maintenance. I had the T-Belt water pump etc done at the acura dealership last year when it was 7 years old, but only had about 70k on it.
The local Acura dealership has a 29.99 oil change special going so I just had it done, I have it done every 5k. Right before the oil change, I pulled the dipstick on the cold engine and the oil level was spot on the full mark after 5k miles from the last change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yea, I was thinking about going to a different dealership. I assume Honda dealers won't share service records ?
 

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Yea, I was thinking about going to a different dealership. I assume Honda dealers won't share service records ?
Service records are accessable to all Honda dealerships.
 

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Yea, I was thinking about going to a different dealership. I assume Honda dealers won't share service records ?
Service Records are available to you if you open an account on the Honda Owners site. All you need is a VIN#.
 
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