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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, Folks.

I need some help thinking through a recent issue and problem solving.

My son was driving my wife in his Pilot. It's a 2006 EX 2WD with 210k miles on it. He was doing 65mph for about 5 miles on the interstate and as they exited, the car went into limp mode. There was little to no power, the car wouldn't rev above a certain rpm, and the ABS/VSA lights came on. The CEL was already on because there's an issue with the front catalytic converter.

I scanned it when they got home. Here are screens shots of the scan report:
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The screenshot on the right is the PGM-FI report.

To put one thing away before I go on, the B1 S2 and B2 S2 are known problems. The front catalytic convertor was hollow. All of the material was partially blocking the rear cat. So I had a shop unblock the rear cat and put everything back together. For the time being, I'm not dealing with the cats.

I can't find much information on the B1177 code. My guess is that abnormal battery voltage is what caused the misfires and caused the car to go into limp home mode. Anybody else agree? I think it would explain the ABS issue also.

My question is how do I track down the cause of the B1177? Online, I see mention of possible sources of the problem: 1) Open or shorted battery harness, 2) faulty battery, 3) faulty alternator, 4) faulty Gauge Control Module or 5) poor electrical connection to the battery.

I checked the battery and alternator after leaving the headlights on for a couple minutes. Both were right around 12.4v. I load tested the battery and alternator. During start up, the battery dropped to 10.2 volts then went up to 14.4 volts. The alternator was at about 14.4 volts. I checked all of the fuses under the hood (both fuse boxes) with my logic probe and there were no blown fuses. I visually inspected the relays that I could. I traced as much of the battery harness as I could, the wire wrap is all still intact and I couldn't see any obvious breaks in the wire. I know it doesn't mean there isn't a short, but there's no obvious evidence of damage. I checked a couple honda parts websites, and I can't find gauge control module as a separate part. My best guess is the gauge control module is integrated into the PCM/ECM.

I feel like I'm missing something obvious but my brain is a little fried. Would it serve any purpose to check all the fuses under the dash (driver and passenger sides)? What do you guys think I'm missing as possible causes?

Also, I read somewhere that the low voltage issue could be caused by the electronic load detector. I don't know how to test it, but on my son's car, I think it's integrated in the main fuse box, meaning I'd have to replace the fuse box. The wires going into the ELD looks a little burned and I think that's the ELD.

Here's a screenshot of the fuse box. The ELD has wires going into it:
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Let me know your thoughts. Thanks in advance.
 

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Fix the P2647 first.
I'd replace the vtec solenoid assembly with gaskets. Likely sprung an oil leak and dripped down into the alternator causing your voltage problem. Might need an alternator. Any oil around the dipstick? Oil in alternator? A photo would be great.
 

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Fix the P2647 first.
I'd replace the vtec solenoid assembly with gaskets. Likely sprung an oil leak and dripped down into the alternator causing your voltage problem. Might need an alternator. Any oil around the dipstick? Oil in alternator? A photo would be great.
Sorry, if an 06, oil can not drop into alternator from the Vtec solenoid assembly. That's on later models.
Locate the Rocker Arm Oil Pressure Switch on the oil filter housing and replace. Will likely fix most of your troubles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Fix the P2647 first.
I'd replace the vtec solenoid assembly with gaskets. Likely sprung an oil leak and dripped down into the alternator causing your voltage problem. Might need an alternator. Any oil around the dipstick? Oil in alternator? A photo would be great.
On my son's car, the VTEC solenoid is on the rear cylinder head, kind of near the throttle body on the driver's side. The oil dipstick is diagonal from it, on the front cylinder head near the alternator. Also, I replaced that Vtec solenoid gasket a few weeks ago. I checked it for oil leaks around it and everything around it is dry. Here's a pick where you can sort of see one part of the solenoid and the oil dipstick is diagonal from it:
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I take your points and you spark a thought (no pun intended). We're not the original owners. I bought this auction car as a project for me to work on with my son. The valve cover gaskets were leaking pretty bad and I replaced them. I also did a valve adjustment. The alternator could have oil in it from the leaky valve cover gaskets. I knew my brain was missing something that might be obvious but needed a little push. Thanks for that.
 

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The p2647 is the cause of low rev limiter, when the pcm doesn't know the state of the vtec system, it limits rpm to 3kish. I would replace to whole spool valve,as the switch is generally almost as much as the whole thing.
 

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Good suggestions above, but I'd also give all you cable another once over, including grounds, for loose, frayed or corroded wires and connections. Just to be sure.
 

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On the VTEC solenoid, there is a filter that can clog up restricting oil flow and then everything stops working correctly. I'd pull that first.
 

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On the VTEC solenoid, there is a filter that can clog up restricting oil flow and then everything stops working correctly. I'd pull that first.
Yes, that can be replaced.
142717
 

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I replaced that external gasket with a screen a few weeks ago. That gasket pictured on the right is the internal gasket. I replaced that one too.
Then you got the vtec assembly on the back drivers side engine head.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Then you got the vtec assembly on the back drivers side engine head.
Yep. No leaks from it any more. For anyone interested, here's what the VTEC Solenoid looks like internally. Even after I replaced the gasket screen (twice), I was still getting a leak. I took this off the engine, wiped off the all the oil I could see. Left it for a while to do some other work and there was oil on the cardboard when I came back to it. I wiped it down again, came back and saw oil at the seam where the two halfs connect. Took it apart and that old gasket broke in two pieces when I pulled it out. This has nothing to do with my original question about how I should chase down the electrical issue but thought I'd share since I had a pic.
142718
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The p2647 is the cause of low rev limiter, when the pcm doesn't know the state of the vtec system, it limits rpm to 3kish. I would replace to whole spool valve,as the switch is generally almost as much as the whole thing.
But that spool valve is over $400 from Honda. I'll have to leave that as a last resort for the stuck rocker arm. I'm hoping the electrical issue is what caused the car to freak out and throw misfires and stuck rocker arm. If the stuck rocker arm is controlled by the vtec spool solenoid then maybe, maybe? the low voltage messed with the relation between the engine computer and the solenoid. I'm just grasping for straws, but I don't think the boss will agree to me spending $400 on that part. Maybe if I get her a nice Christmas present. :unsure:
 

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But that spool valve is over $400 from Honda. I'll have to leave that as a last resort for the stuck rocker arm. I'm hoping the electrical issue is what caused the car to freak out and throw misfires and stuck rocker arm. If the stuck rocker arm is controlled by the vtec spool solenoid then maybe, maybe? the low voltage messed with the relation between the engine computer and the solenoid. I'm just grasping for straws, but I don't think the boss will agree to me spending $400 on that part. Maybe if I get her a nice Christmas present. :unsure:
I have over 50k miles on both left and right aftermarket vtec (VVT) solenoid and spools made by Standard Motor Products on my 2012 Crosstour, no issues. Bought from RockAuto.
 
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I'm just grasping for straws, but I don't think the boss will agree to me spending $400 on that part. Maybe if I get her a nice Christmas present. :unsure:
Don't underestimate the power of a candlelit dinner at a restaurant with real tablecloths. Burger King will simply not do this time.
 

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Me, too. But the refined ladies we married do not always share our proletarian tastes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Just an update. My wife is ok with me getting the aftermarket solenoid Nail Grease recommended and she's ok with me replacing the alternator. The alternator looks like it has old oil on it. I'm going to order the parts from rock auto and hope that they get here some time next. I'll give an update once every thing is installed and I get it back on the highway for another test. Thanks for the help.
 

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