[Nail Grease]

I mentioned this a couple of times yesterday with little reaction. After seeing an invoice of someone's $50+ oil change they get at the dealership, I copied and search the item number for the oil used. This person thought they were getting a FULL synthetic oil change. Now they know they've been paying for synthetic BLEND. The item number for this 0W20 oil is 0020C-BAS-N0L

Would anyone like to share their experience? What item # is on your invoice?

 

[xGS]

On the invoice for my most recent oil change (with 5W-20), it is clearly stated "semi-synthetic oil change."
It also states CAM2 SN/GF5 oil.

 

[plplplpl]

CAM2 SN/GF5 oil.

So this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/CAM2-QT-S-SYN-5W20-SN-GF-5-OIL-per-12-EA/524695634

 

[Kydsid]

There is so little difference between modern semi-synths and full synths that it wouldn't bother me one way or the other. Additive packages on a brand from one to another are so often the same. Maybe if I was gonna go 20k mile OCI it'd be a thing. But Honda is all in on DI engines and it's pretty clear that DI engines shouldn't go that long on any oil. For my next oil change I'll be looking for any oil that meets the new SP/GF-6 specs that are meant to meet newer engine needs. Won't care if that oil is semi or full synth.

 

[Nail Grease]

There is so little difference between modern semi-synths and full synths that it wouldn't bother me one way or the other. Additive packages on a brand from one to another are so often the same. Maybe if I was gonna go 20k mile OCI it'd be a thing. But Honda is all in on DI engines and it's pretty clear that DI engines shouldn't go that long on any oil. For my next oil change I'll be looking for any oil that meets the new SP/GF-6 specs that are meant to meet newer engine needs. Won't care if that oil is semi or full synth.

It's certainly your vehicle and your choice.
Semi or Blend does not equal Full synthetic and is of lesser quality no matter how much it's excused by its meeting the minimum rating. Conventional oil products = a lower flash point. Lower flash point oil can pre-ignite causing misfire codes and burned oil in cylinders. This can lead to stuck valves and rings, fouled spark plugs and dirty injectors. Lets not forget clogged cats and EGR valve and passages from burned oil suet and vapors. Semi or Blend oils are dirty oils making for a dirty engine, no matter how often you change it.

 

[xGS]

So this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/CAM2-QT-S-SYN-5W20-SN-GF-5-OIL-per-12-EA/524695634

Probably.

 

[The Todd]

So this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/CAM2-QT-S-SYN-5W20-SN-GF-5-OIL-per-12-EA/524695634

Is that for a Gallon? That's expensine.

There is so little difference between modern semi-synths and full synths that it wouldn't bother me one way or the other. Additive packages on a brand from one to another are so often the same. Maybe if I was gonna go 20k mile OCI it'd be a thing. But Honda is all in on DI engines and it's pretty clear that DI engines shouldn't go that long on any oil. For my next oil change I'll be looking for any oil that meets the new SP/GF-6 specs that are meant to meet newer engine needs. Won't care if that oil is semi or full synth.

KInd of agree, especially if you change it in 3-5K miles.

It's certainly your vehicle and your choice.
Semi or Blend does not equal Full synthetic and is of lesser quality no matter how much it's excused by its meeting the minimum rating. Conventional oil products = a higher flash point. Higher flash point oil can pre-ignite causing misfire codes and burned oil in cylinders. This can lead to stuck valves and rings, fouled spark plugs and dirty injectors. Lets not forget clogged cats and EGR valve and passages from burned oil suet and vapors. Semi or Blend oils are dirty oils making for a dirty engine, no matter how often you change it.

I was a fireman in TX. Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but did you mean conventional oils have a
Lower flash point? - ignite at a lower temp?

See this:

Flash point is the lowest temperature at which a chemical can vaporize to form an ignitable mixture in air. A lower flash point indicates higher flammability. At the flash point, the vapor may cease to burn when the ignition source is removed. ..

 

[Nail Grease]

I was a fireman in TX. Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong, but did you mean conventional oils have a
Lower flash point? - ignite at a lower temp?

See this:

Flash point is the lowest temperature at which a chemical can vaporize to form an ignitable mixture in air. A lower flash point indicates higher flammability. At the flash point, the vapor may cease to burn when the ignition source is removed. ..

Oops, yep. What I meant.
Corrected.

 

[The Todd]

The thread title is kinda of what I've been saying on some posts.
Some shops will put a lower grade/cheaper oil in, and charge you for the better grade, etc.
Or, use crappy conventional oil only for their 'deals' jobs.

I like to know what I'm putting in. Could it be something different in the containers from the store than what they say? I guess it could- less likely though.

 

[Kydsid]

The thread title is kinda of what I've been saying on some posts.
Some shops will put a lower grade/cheaper oil in, and charge you for the better grade, etc.
Or, use crappy conventional oil only for their 'deals' jobs.

I like to know what I'm putting in. Could it be something different in the containers from the store than what they say? I guess it could- less likely though.

Feel the same way. If I don't do it myself I handle it one of two ways. Go to to a shop that puts in what I bring (ask first if they will do this folks), or two go to an Oil company branded quick lube place and specify what you want. As in look for the place that is branded for Castrol, Pennzoil etc and ask for the product. Then watch thru the windows (all these places have windowed bays Ive been to across multiple states) while they fill.

Oh and you ask why would I pay someone to do it if I'm that worried. Easy many times the price of labor is about $20 or less for an oil change. My time is money and well it's worth it from time to time.

 

[PLT383]

I picked up API SP 0W20 yesterday at Walmart. I guess SP is the newest and surpasses SN in some form or fashion.

 

[Kydsid]

It's certainly your vehicle and your choice.
Semi or Blend does not equal Full synthetic and is of lesser quality no matter how much it's excused by its meeting the minimum rating. Conventional oil products = a lower flash point. Lower flash point oil can pre-ignite causing misfire codes and burned oil in cylinders. This can lead to stuck valves and rings, fouled spark plugs and dirty injectors. Lets not forget clogged cats and EGR valve and passages from burned oil suet and vapors. Semi or Blend oils are dirty oils making for a dirty engine, no matter how often you change it.

Flash Point does not tell the whole story about how a oil will react inside the engine, pre-ignition, and oil burning in cylinders. Using oil spec parameters to judge one oil from another is not a complete picture. I'm specifically talking about Hondas and DI engines using OCI's are from 5-10k miles and only blends against full synths, not any conventional oil. Heck so many blends and full synths have the same specs. Just off top of my head I know Motorcraft has one SDS and therefore one listed FP for blend and synth.

 

[Kydsid]

I picked up API SP 0W20 yesterday at Walmart. I guess SP is the newest and surpasses SN in some form or fashion.

Yes SP surpases SN. Been a decade coming. SP oils are generally spec'd for more modern engine needs. The spec in general addresses start/stop, turbo, DI application needs. Doesn't mean an SN oil will cause your engine to fail though, they will be just fine.

The bigger change with oil is that the counter to API ratings, ILSAC has GF-6 as equivalent. But ILSAC split GF-6 into A and B. And you cannot cross use the A & B variants. But the variants are gonna be mostly for cars now specin'g 0W-16.

 

[Hondamon]

It's certainly your vehicle and your choice.
Semi or Blend does not equal Full synthetic and is of lesser quality no matter how much it's excused by its meeting the minimum rating. Conventional oil products = a lower flash point. Lower flash point oil can pre-ignite causing misfire codes and burned oil in cylinders. This can lead to stuck valves and rings, fouled spark plugs and dirty injectors. Lets not forget clogged cats and EGR valve and passages from burned oil suet and vapors. Semi or Blend oils are dirty oils making for a dirty engine, no matter how often you change it.

Agreed 100%. Lower flash point means that there will be more oil vaporizing at operating temps and passing into the intake manifold via the PCV system and that is bad news for DI engines. The only way you know an oil change is done to your exact standards is to do it yourself and you will save money as well.

 

[Nail Grease]

Agreed 100%. Lower flash point means that there will be more oil vaporizing at operating temps and passing into the intake manifold via the PCV system and that is bad news for DI engines. The only way you know an oil change is done to your exact standards is to do it yourself and you will save money as well.

Just like DW-1 in transmission troubles, starting to see a trend with stuck rings with active VCM running on synthetic BLEND oil.
Just calling it like I see it.

 

[xGS]

Just like DW-1 in transmission troubles, starting to see a trend with stuck rings with active VCM running on synthetic BLEND oil.
Just calling it like I see it.

Based upon how many vehicles are you detecting this "trend".
For your own vehicles, were they all bought new and maintained under your supervision, or were they bought used/wrecked such that you have no record of how they were maintained by the previous owner(s)?

 

[Nail Grease]

Based upon how many vehicles are you detecting this "trend".
For your own vehicles, were they all bought new and maintained under your supervision, or were they bought used/wrecked such that you have no record of how they were maintained by the previous owner(s)?

My personal experiences combined with what can be read on multiple Honda forums.

 

[jimmaki]

My personal experiences combined with what can be read on multiple Honda forums.

I've been using Amsoil in all my cars since dirt was invented (well, the early 70's) and all the engines outlasted the rest of the cars. All I bought new until later in life when I wised up. I know there's less expensive ways to run synthetic oil but I've had the same wonderful wife for 30 years even though I know I could have gotten one that cost less. (ouch!)

 

[xGS]

I've been using Amsoil in all my cars since dirt was invented (well, the early 70's) and all the engines outlasted the rest of the cars. All I bought new until later in life when I wised up. I know there's less expensive ways to run synthetic oil but I've had the same wonderful wife for 30 years even though I know I could have gotten one that cost less. (ouch!)

How many miles did each of those engines last?

Hope your wife isn't like the ex-wife of a former co-worker who thought that it was her husband's job to earn money and her job to spend it.

 

[Kydsid]

Just like DW-1 in transmission troubles, starting to see a trend with stuck rings with active VCM running on synthetic BLEND oil.
Just calling it like I see it.

I think it very likely there are quite a bit of variables beyond if the oil is a blend or the oils flash point. Case in point: Pennzoil Gold has a higher flash point than Pennzoil Ultra Platinum, even regular dino Pennzoil has a higher flash point than the full synth. And honestly wouldn't look at FP for the issues you are concerned with as a metric, maybe might look to NOACK, but even that isn't a real good metric alone, nor is any lab test on fresh oil.

Ultimately with a DI engine I think what you are worried about has more to due with fuel dilution and pulling the oil out of grade and killing the oil's additive package. That would have more to do with driving conditions and oil change interval. The solution then isn't to demonize blends, its to change the oil before it craps out based on the driving conditions. Which is the goal for any oil.

IMHO the only Honda that anything other than an a too long interval would matter in is the NSX.

I will stick to buying the dirt cheapest SN+/SP/GF-5/6 oil I can find or have put in the car as the benefit of expensive synths (and I'm an AMSOIL fan and user) is extended OCI's. And I just don't think any oil can beat DI fuel dilution.