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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My 2013 Pilot Touring (172,000 miles) is in at the dealer for piston cleaning, ring replacement, etc. under the VTM/VCM service bulletin coming out of the class action lawsuit back in 2013. Anyway, a few days after discovering the issue and having the plugs changed out and scheduling the cylinder work, I got a catalytic converter code (P0430). Anyway, the car is in the shop having the work don for the TSB. The service writer calls and tells me they recommend the following work:

Replace the cat converter due to the error code - no other diagnosis was done (maybe ok. maybe a bit premature) - $1600 for OEM, $1150 for aftermarket
Replace the spool valve (apparently leaking oil) - $988
Replace the power steering pump - $1100 quoted originally. Now down to $828 when I asked if some of the labor overlaps with the TSB labor
And for good measure... Replace battery - $207

The car was running fine after it started throwing the misfire codes - I am sure it wasn't going to get better. When my mechanic told me about the TSB, I contacted the dealer to inquire. Now they have my car fileted and I am just wondering if they are trying to make some case - if the work needs to be don, then i'll get it done. What I am questioning is how much $$$ they quoted. $1200 to $1600 seems a bit high for a cat? Also, should they do some other checking (sensor???) before committing to the cat?

Anyone have experience with the dealer and these repairs?
 

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I don't know for sure; however, it seems pricey to me
However, $207 for a battery is a crime.
Go to Walmart, Costco, Sam's Club or NAPA.
I'd find an independent mechanic that specializes in Hondas for future work.
 

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My 2013 Pilot Touring (172,000 miles) is in at the dealer for piston cleaning, ring replacement, etc. under the VTM/VCM service bulletin coming out of the class action lawsuit back in 2013. Anyway, a few days after discovering the issue and having the plugs changed out and scheduling the cylinder work, I got a catalytic converter code (P0430). Anyway, the car is in the shop having the work don for the TSB. The service writer calls and tells me they recommend the following work:

Replace the cat converter due to the error code - no other diagnosis was done (maybe ok. maybe a bit premature) - $1600 for OEM, $1150 for aftermarket
Replace the spool valve (apparently leaking oil) - $988
Replace the power steering pump - $1100 quoted originally. Now down to $828 when I asked if some of the labor overlaps with the TSB labor
And for good measure... Replace battery - $207

The car was running fine after it started throwing the misfire codes - I am sure it wasn't going to get better. When my mechanic told me about the TSB, I contacted the dealer to inquire. Now they have my car fileted and I am just wondering if they are trying to make some case - if the work needs to be don, then i'll get it done. What I am questioning is how much $$$ they quoted. $1200 to $1600 seems a bit high for a cat? Also, should they do some other checking (sensor???) before committing to the cat?

Anyone have experience with the dealer and these repairs?
I'd get it out of there if drivable.
The spool leak most of the time can be cured by buying just the gaskets for around $10. If you have an engine code associated with the leak, its 3 bolts and your out under $100.
Have you disabled the VCM? If your cats are not totally gone, you "may" be able to reverse the code by disabling the VCM and doing some simple maintanance.
Change Air Filter
Clean the MAF
Inspect air Intake hose, for leaks. Tighten clamps.
New spark plugs
Replace PCV valve
Use a top Tier 87 octane fuel
Disable VCM
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks gents. That’s what I figured. My mechanic (a friend of mine) couldn’t believe the prices quoted. The car will be drivable as soon as the TSB work is done. I’m gonna tell them no on the rest and I’ll go to my friends shop and learn a bit helping him and his mechanic do the rest. We bought the car from this dealer nearly 8 years ago. Did all the required maintenance to keep the warranty. However, I have always found them to be very high on price and they always seem to magically find a way to magically drop the price when you show that you know a little or are capable of learning and understanding the job scope. Don’t really trust them to do anything outside of warranty work.
 

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Gaskets that are likely the cause of the leak.
143411

Vtec assembly without spool.
143412

Just need to know if the front head af oil dipstick is leaking or the one on the head, back, drivers side. Or order 2 sets of gaskets or 2 vetec assemblies and do both.
 
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Thanks gents. That’s what I figured. My mechanic (a friend of mine) couldn’t believe the prices quoted. The car will be drivable as soon as the TSB work is done. I’m gonna tell them no on the rest and I’ll go to my friends shop and learn a bit helping him and his mechanic do the rest. We bought the car from this dealer nearly 8 years ago. Did all the required maintenance to keep the warranty. However, I have always found them to be very high on price and they always seem to magically find a way to magically drop the price when you show that you know a little or are capable of learning and understanding the job scope. Don’t really trust them to do anything outside of warranty work.
Sounds like my dealer except on the parts side. They love taking the full msrp and then going up and up from there. Ever wanted to pay $30 bux for pre-diluted Honda coolant? They got ya covered!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I’m not afraid of turning wrenches. Just like to know what I am getting into before starting. How difficult is the job? What’s the tear down look like? What has to be removed to replace the gaskets or assembly. Any info would be appreciated.
Unfortunately, they have the engine torn apart for the bulletin and they said they need more parts so it will drag into next week. So I am hostage at this point. I told them to just do the bulletin and I’ll take care of the rest. I’m sure they will try to stick me with diagnostic and other fees come next week.
 

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Get the warranty/recall work done. Nothing else.
If it drives fine, no codes.
Forget about it!
Jeese Louise! If it ain't broke....

IF you need any of the other stuff, you'll know in due time.

If it ran fine when you took it in, why does it need new rings? Is it using excessive oil?
 

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I’m not afraid of turning wrenches. Just like to know what I am getting into before starting. How difficult is the job? What’s the tear down look like? What has to be removed to replace the gaskets or assembly. Any info would be appreciated.
Unfortunately, they have the engine torn apart for the bulletin and they said they need more parts so it will drag into next week. So I am hostage at this point. I told them to just do the bulletin and I’ll take care of the rest. I’m sure they will try to stick me with diagnostic and other fees come next week.
The vtec leak is very easy, If its above the dipstick. 3 top bolts (10mm) as pictured in above parts.
143443

Do not remove the 2 spool bolts. One is pictured here, the other is below the dipstick.
Place rag as pictured, to prevent oil from dripping into alternator.
 

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I would install VCM Muzzler and run some high quality gas and see if that solves the catalytic convertor code. Those typically don't go out.

Are you having problems with your power steering pump or are they just suggesting it get done? I wouldn't proactively replace something like that and if I did, I'd fine an independent Honda specialist in your area. That'll save you a ton of money.

Is the spool valve leaking? If it actually is, have it replaced by someone else who can do it for cheaper.

As far as the battery goes, that's insane. I don't replace things proactively other than the timing belt. When did you last replace the battery? If you do determine it should be replaced, go to Walmart or an auto parts store and have them install it for free.

If I understand what you said correctly, the TSB is being done for free. I'd imagine the dealer is trying to get some money out of you to make up for the free service you're getting. They may be right, but again, I'd go some place cheaper. I only go to a dealership for recall and warranty work.
 

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The spool leak most of the time can be cured by buying just the gaskets for around $10.
If it's really even leaking at all in any meaningful way. This is why I don't like other people touching my vehicle. I don't even like "free" inspections. Some dealer tech hoping for an up-sell will have your plastic timing belt cover peeled back (pried back) to have a "peek" at your timing belt, have your wheels removed for a brake inspection (I use an actual torque wrench on my lug nuts, not a gorilla-gun impact wrench), remove a spark plug to check them or whatever.

An older vehicle that's out of warranty in for aTSB is a sitting duck for a "shopping list" up-sell list. The slightest amount of seepage from an O ring or gasket doesn't mean that the world has to stop and get replaced immediately. Any slight seepage with dust or dirt clinging to it is a "leak" to an upsell-hungry shop struggling through the Pandemic.
 

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error
 

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If it's really even leaking at all in any meaningful way. This is why I don't like other people touching my vehicle. I don't even like "free" inspections. Some dealer tech hoping for an up-sell will have your plastic timing belt cover peeled back (pried back) to have a "peek" at your timing belt, have your wheels removed for a brake inspection (I use an actual torque wrench on my lug nuts, not a gorilla-gun impact wrench), remove a spark plug to check them or whatever.

An older vehicle that's out of warranty in for aTSB is a sitting duck for a "shopping list" up-sell list. The slightest amount of seepage from an O ring or gasket doesn't mean that the world has to stop and get replaced immediately. Any slight seepage with dust or dirt clinging to it is a "leak" to an upsell-hungry shop struggling through the Pandemic.
Agreed, that's why I recommend to get the vehicle out of there. See for yourself if these repairs are needed now.
 
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As far as the battery goes, that's insane.
I agree it's pricey, but I looked at my battery a few days ago and it's an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery.

I don't know enough about battery pricing to know if that's a good price for an AGM battery or not and the dealer is charging labor for changing the battery too in the OP's case. In theory, an AGM battery is a better battery than an ordinary wet lead acid battery even though Honda had a bad run of batteries for a while. They are probably just made by the usual generic battery manufacturers in the U.S. anyway. Mine reads 6XX hundred-something cold cranking amps.
 

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I agree it's pricey, but I looked at my battery a few days ago and it's an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) battery.

I don't know enough about battery pricing to know if that's a good price for an AGM battery or not and the dealer is charging labor for changing the battery too in the OP's case. In theory, an AGM battery is a better battery than an ordinary wet lead acid battery even though Honda had a bad run of batteries for a while. They are probably just made by the usual generic battery manufacturers in the U.S. anyway. Mine reads 6XX hundred-something cold cranking amps.
I'm sure it's a combination of overpriced dealer battery and charging labor for installation, although most dealerships have coupons for free battery installation.

I've heard people on this forum talk about AGM batteries and since neither of my Pilots came with those batteries I'm just going to stick with the regular batteries. I guess if your car has tons of electronics then it would be beneficial to use that kind of battery but otherwise it's not worth the expense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Get the warranty/recall work done. Nothing else.
If it drives fine, no codes.
Forget about it!
Jeese Louise! If it ain't broke....

IF you need any of the other stuff, you'll know in due time.

If it ran fine when you took it in, why does it need new rings? Is it using excessive oil?
It’s been consuming about 1 to 2 quarts of oil in between oil changes. I couldn’t find any leaks looking from above and from under on a lift. When it started misfiring and throwing the code and then the plugs on the rear side of the engine were oil fouled I found out about the bulletin. I was 2 months from the 8 year point so I decided to pursue it. It’s not costing me anything so why not?
 

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This is my cue to suggest AT-205 for your leak. Certainly won't cost as much.

  1. I don't know of anywhere in the Owner's Manual Honda specifies when or even if you should change the PCV valve. But you should anyway. Think of it as cheap insurance against a much more costly main seal leak repair, or the difference between one that's going bad but not so far gone that it can't be saved by some Stop ATP AT-205 and a PCV valve swap. Just tread lightly when you remove the old one:
    Small oil leak, rear main seal?
  2. Switch to Maxlife High Mileage Oil
  3. Did I mention https://www.amazon.com/ATP-AT-205-Re-Seal-Stops-Bottle/dp/B000NVW1LM
Watch the manufacturer's video:


Or take it from good old Mr. Kilmer. Gotta love Scotty.




With that, you'll go a long, long way before you get to dealer $$.
 
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